Car jacker killed in VA

NEVER talk to the police........Lawyer up first or get signed immunity from prosecution.

(although IANAL)
 
Palladin said:
that's what I was thinking. [thinking]
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I am a little slow, but am catching on. Just about EVERY news story that is reported nowadays is lacking in the most basic of facts. Marine is arrested for undeclared "loaded" handgun in his lugage! A few days later you find out it was declared and legal, and just a b.s. trumped up charge.

Same with this case. It is WAY too early to tell what is going on here. Obviously, if the perp was masked and trying to break into the girlfriends car, this guy should go free. But WHO KNOWS what the actual case is. We can not trust the newspaper account! It needs to "simmer" for at least a week before the details are actually posted.
 
A. Was the gun legal?

B. Could the student have been a drug dealer, who beat Jamal? They might have known each other. Not trying to be racist here, but theres a lot of rich white kids at college who have huge access of funds, and get into the drug game....haha I don't even know if he's white either..but I'm assuming he is...
 
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Looks like the news reports have dropped the kidnapping aspect altogether.

This article has the police claiming it was a shooting over property. This report indicates it was the girlfriend's car, she saw the perp breaking in, went out and confronted the thief, was followed by her boyfriend who ended up shooting the thief.

All reports appear consistent in saying that the guy charged with murder said he thought the thief had a gun. Police appear to be unwilling to say whether the perp actually did or did not have a gun. More to come, I'm sure.
 
It appears he saw a man breaking into his girlfriends car and ran outside to confront him at which point he shot at the unarmed man. The last few shots were fired as the perp was running away. The perp got what he deserved but it's still unlawful to shoot in that scenario. The charges sound justified to me. There was also no mention of the girlfriend being in any danger. Sounds like she was in the house the whole time.
 
gjones77 said:
The boyfriend deserves a medal and the perp deserved what he got.

Don't worry though, I'm sure the media will be fair and honest...

Who am I kidding, they're going to basically paint the perp as an innocent saint who got a raw deal in life, and there for isn't his fault...
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He was just starting to turn his life around....
 
Check out the latest local news reports on this incident. Here and here are the two I've found.
MXD said:
It appears he saw a man breaking into his girlfriends car and ran outside to confront him at which point he shot at the unarmed man.
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Multiple reports indicate that the shooter though the thief did have a gun, at least one witness confirms that the thief had a gun, and the police actually aren't saying either way. One could presume from the charges, but I'm not (innocent before proven and all that).
The last few shots were fired as the perp was running away.
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Again, witnesses appear to be inconsistent on this point. And I can imagine situations where shooting at someone running away is justifiable (ex. still pointing a gun back even while moving away).
The perp got what he deserved but it's still unlawful to shoot in that scenario. The charges sound justified to me. There was also no mention of the girlfriend being in any danger. Sounds like she was in the house the whole time.
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There was an earlier report, at the bottom of this article, indicating that the girlfriend went out first, then he followed. Later updates, while silent on this point, do not contradict it (unlike the original kidnapped story which was contradicted by later reports).

The bottom line is there is much that is not known/reported, including some pieces key to the story (ex. did the thief have a gun or not). We shall see.
 
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THIS GUY FIRED SIX SHOTS AT HIM ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! YOU GUYS CAN'T POSSIBLY BE CONDONING THIS KIND OF ACTION!!!

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO REPLACE SIX ROUNDS OF AMMO. GEEZ DOESNT THIS GUY KNOW ITS HARD TO COME BY! [rofl]
 
HKdrummer19 said:
THIS GUY FIRED SIX SHOTS AT HIM ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?! YOU GUYS CAN'T POSSIBLY BE CONDONING THIS KIND OF ACTION!!!

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT IS TO REPLACE SIX ROUNDS OF AMMO. GEEZ DOESNT THIS GUY KNOW ITS HARD TO COME BY! [rofl]
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How do you think I feel, if I ever get in a situation I'll have to replace 26 rounds of premium 10mm [crying]




[wink]
 
Nothing that happens in this country surprises me anymore. Charged for killing an individual that obviously did not care about his or anyone else's life. And we wonder why very few people get involved when they see a crime being committed. [angry]
 
Smiles1014 said:
There has got to be more to the story. The only eye witness accounts are coming from the shooter and girlfriend. Perhaps the police found something in their investigation that discredits their story. I would hope this is the case because as laid out so far this is quite an injustice.
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My thought precisely.
 
Here's an article with some more details, it sounds like the issue *may* not be so cut and dried as was first reported:
http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=10238609&nav=menu128_2

So far there are four possible things that could have happened:
1) Guy was breaking into car (unnarmed) and was shot while running away
2) Guy was breaking into car (armed) and was shot while running away
3) Guy was breaking into car (armed) and was shot
4) Guy was threatening guys girlfriend, and was shot

Conflicting witness reports also sounds fishy as some of these issues should be EASY to determine:
1) Was he shot while running away
2) Was he armed
3) Was he threatening the guys girlfriend
 
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Their DA needs to get a clue. His assertion is basically that if someone is stealing your stuff and you catch them, call the police. That's horseshit. 9 out of 10 times people call us and by the time we get there the suspect is long gone. They call, it gets routed to 911, from 911 it goes to dispatch then from dispatch it's relayed to us. We take anywhere from a 30 seconds to 2 minutes to get there. Add that all up and it's about 5 minutes on average from the time of the crime to the police responding on scene. With this DA's logic then the state should be held accountable for stolen property. If the police are the ONLY option available to protect one's property, then their failure to do so should be equivalent to a failure of the state, if the state is saying that you have no other rights in regards to protecting your property. Unless you know it's a felony and want to make a citizen's arrest (good luck with that).

Example, you see a guy in your car and are unsure whether he has a gun in his waistband. You go outside with your gun pointed at him, tell him to stop/get down/whatever... he looks at you, emptyhanded, and continues to rifle through your car, because he knows you have no right to shoot him. He calmly walks away with your GPS and iPod because he saw this story and knows you can't do shit to stop him. Wonderful.
 
That is exactly what is going to happen.

You know what you do?

Shoot him anyway!

The schmuck is probably going to call the cops on you for pulling out a gun anyway. It will totally divert the attention from him rifling through your car to a man with a gun call. You get locked up and he walks a way laughing his ass off.
 
JMody said:
That is exactly what is going to happen.

You know what you do?

Shoot him anyway!

The schmuck is probably going to call the cops on you for pulling out a gun anyway. It will totally divert the attention from him rifling through your car to a man with a gun call. You get locked up and he walks a way laughing his ass off.
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True... I don't know if it would ever get THAT bad, but I'll tell you when the dicision comes to either take a shot (literally AND figuratively) at protecting your property with force or laying down to the bad men, these sorts of stories, these sorts of incidents, are exactly the kind of thing that are going to get the good people killed. Hesitation is a killer, in a tense situation it's the absolutely worst thing you can do and it. And while you're there scared to death, not of this dickless a**h*** who broke into your car, but of the big bad DA who's going to ruin your whole life afterwards, this lowlife might just take the opportunity to show the world that he doesn't give a shit about any of these rediculous rules that "reasonable people" hold so dear. He might end up killing you, because you didn't have the right to do him first... then the story would have been "Armed homeowner shot dead by guntoting robber". Where will the outcry be then? For this poor dead guy, a victim of society's scum... but in reality a victim of society.

It's a sad state of affairs.
 
Martlet said:
Hey, I was just offering a theory. In my book, if you pull a gun on me or someone else in my presence, there is no point of excessiveness. You aren't sure a threat is neutralized unless it's not breathing. People can operate quite some time with gunshot wounds that prove to be fatal.
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EddieCoyle said:
Yeah, that's what I thought. Maybe shots 4, 5, & 6 were head shots while the guy was lying on the ground.

(Not that there's anything morally wrong with that)
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Agreed, shoot to stop. When they stop being a lethal threat, I'll stop shooting them.

Kind of like this case.

What happened after Norman Borden fired five shots at the Jeep coming at him: self-defense or murder?

There's little disagreement surrounding the circumstances behind the deaths of Christopher Araujo and Saul Trejo, prosecutor Craig Williams told jurors Wednesday during his opening statement in Borden's murder trial.

Even Juan Mendez, who survived the shooting with injuries to his legs, testified that he and Araujo were going to go beat up Borden. Trejo was needed as a third man against Borden, Mendez said, to "rough him up a little bit."

Williams told jurors up front that Trejo was a documented member of the violent street gang Sur 13. And, he said, he doesn't deny that if there hadn't been a fence post on Hiawatha Avenue, Norman Borden probably would have gotten hit by the Jeep that Araujo was driving.

Borden, 44, pulled out his gun and shot five rounds through the windshield.

"I'm not going to stand here and tell you that's not some form of self-defense," Williams said. "It is. That's not in dispute."

After quickly firing off five rounds, Borden circled around the Jeep and unloaded his gun, Williams said. Araujo, 19, was shot multiple times in the face. Trejo, 21, was shot once. Mendez was shot several times in his legs.

The only issue for jurors to decide, Williams said, is whether the threat to Borden was still imminent before he decided to fire nine more rounds.

Borden is charged with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder.

*****

Within a day of the shooting and Borden's arrest, his home was set on fire. Borden has since received death threats, Haughwout said. His trial has generated extra security at the courthouse.
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Alright, I'll just come out and say it.

How many of you guys include a folding shovel & small bag of lime in your CCW gear? [laugh]
 
mikem317 said:
I don't understand. It sounds like a self-defense response? Right?
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The problem is courts love to nitpick about where self defense begins and ends. [sad2] Frankly I think any attacker still capable of attacking you should be pretty much eligible to
receive the dosages of lead vitamins required to correct his obvious deficiency.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The problem is courts love to nitpick about where self defense begins and ends. [sad2] Frankly I think any attacker still capable of attacking you should be pretty much eligible to
receive the dosages of lead vitamins required to correct his obvious deficiency.

-Mike
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If I was the victim of an attempted carjacking, I think I'd write the same prescription.
 
Raoul Duke said:
MC: "We really try to discourage people from helping themselves."
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In other words: We'd rather you be a victim (Dead or injured), than you. make an attempt to fight for your life.


(Kommiefornia - not too surpised, but very disgusted)



____________________________________________________
Will "You" be ready....when the biological refuse comes in contact with the rotating oscillator?
 
guys, we have the motive, do we have the means? should we do something for this kid? contact a lawyer? something?
 
GSG said:
Alright, I'll just come out and say it.

How many of you guys include a folding shovel & small bag of lime in your CCW gear? [laugh]
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JMody said:
My GOD!

I thought I was the only one who carries his E-Tool and a big ass bag of lime!!!!
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You make it sound like camp sanitation is a bad thing.

I always bury my (you know, Winny the _____) and compostable trash. If you don't sprinkle a little lime the animals just dig it up.
 

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