Can you compete/have precision and not reload?

[Rockrivr1]

I've been going back and forth about getting a new competition rifle to participate in PRS and similar rifle games. After a bunch of research I decided to go with a MPS BA PMR Pro Rifle II in 6.5CM. I asked a fellow NESr who just bought this rifle what he though and he indicated I'll most likely not get the full potential of this rifle if I don't reload. I'm wondering if that is the case would I be better served just getting a Bergara or similar rifle instead and saving some money.

I've tried to reload before and owned a Dillon 550B, but it just wasn't for me. I didn't enjoy it and in the end I sold the entire setup during Covid for a profit. So for me I'll be shooting Hornady 140gr or 147gr ELD Match ammo out of this Rifle.

So my question is whether people agree with the fellow NESr or would you feel confident using factory ammo in the MPS and be competitive?

Thanks

 

[Cuz]

I’d have no issues whatsoever. I know I can’t outshoot factory ammo.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I’d have no issues whatsoever. I know I can’t outshoot factory ammo.

I'm thinking at least to start I'm the same way. Though reading some posts on long range shooting it seems that not reloading may be a hindrance. Hummmm. Still thinking of getting that rifle though, you know, just in case I start reloading again. lol

 

[PatMcD]

What caliber? If it's 6.5 CM, 308, or 223, you can get pretty darn good ammo off the shelf.
Expensive though.

 

[eboos]

I'm thinking at least to start I'm the same way. Though reading some posts on long range shooting it seems that not reloading may be a hindrance. Hummmm. Still thinking of getting that rifle though, you know, just in case I start reloading again. lol

While I didn't compete with it, I used to shoot Federal Gold Metal Match out of my bolt gun. Great stuff, but I think it would get cost prohibitive very quickly. That may be something to consider.

 

[Rockrivr1]

What caliber? If it's 6.5 CM, 308, or 223, you can get pretty darn good ammo off the shelf.
Expensive though.

I should have stated that in the original post, but yes, it's 6.5CM.

 

[jasons]

What caliber? If it's 6.5 CM, 308, or 223, you can get pretty darn good ammo off the shelf.
Expensive though.

That's the thing - excellent factory ammo is available for any of the "mainstream" calibers but can you afford to shoot enough of it to be competitive? Reloading for competition doesn't save any money, it just allows you to shoot / practice more for the same amount of money.

 

[northny]

This is a three shot group to check 100 yard zero. 6.5 cm Hornady 147 Eld match factory ammo. Multiple lots over three years in three different rifles. It’s tough to hand load ammo this consistent. Low SD and ES. I have no problem with my factory ammo for long distance work

 

[whacko]

What caliber? If it's 6.5 CM, 308, or 223, you can get pretty darn good ammo off the shelf.
Expensive though.

If your reloading those these days even that's expensive unless you have a stockpile of components from years ago.

 

[PatMcD]

If your reloading those these days even that's expensive unless you have a stockpile of components from years ago.

If you're a reloader, and you're not sitting on a couple years' worth of components, you're not much of a reloader.

 

[whacko]

If you're a reloader, and you're not sitting on a couple years' worth of components, you're not much of a reloader.

Being that the op is asking about getting into reloading rifle I believe my comment is valid.

 

[DW357]

If you're a reloader, and you're not sitting on a couple years' worth of components, you're not much of a reloader.

Agreed.

But I think whacko was pointing out that if you’re new to reloading, you’re going to pay out of your ass for components - namely primers lol. Be cheaper if you use small primer 6.5 brass as the large rifle primers are expensive and tough to get.

 

[drgrant]

You can compete just fine without even loading one round of anything, but "can you afford it? " Is the real question. DIY match grade ammo is f***loads cheaper than commercial match grade ammo is.

 

[Davidk]

If your rifle is grouping near 1/2 Moa with factory ammo, your biggest problem is not your ammo, it’s your shooting

Don’t cheap out on the gun. You will regret it

 

[DW357]

Just for some quick numbers. An online vendor who ships to MA has the Hornady ELD-M 147 gr 6.5 ammo for $2.25 per round. Shipping on 500 rounds is $17. $1141.75 shipped. DAMN.

I assume the 147 gr stuff is the ultra accurate ammo no?

 

[Davidk]

Every rifle has its own taste. You will need to test with several brands and weights to see which groups best

 

[Mudflap621]

There are a lot of people shooting factory ammo and that’s not a limiting factor. The challenge in this sport is building steady positions and reading wind.

If money was no object I’d say buy a custom and don’t look back but there are also alot of things that are more important that a custom gun. Bags, bipods, optics, wind meter, to name a few. All of these will be more important for making good shots than a custom rifle.

 

[greencobra]

several years ago, i bought 2 rifles from a local pd that was using them in long range sniper competitions. they disbanded the team and sold everything to me. one was a 25-06 ruger 77 heavy barrel and the other, a 308. remington mod 700 hb. they, this department, tried to squeeze every ounce of accuracy from the rifles and reloaded for maximum performance from each. they could have shot factory but wanted to be truly competitive and they were in it to win it. so tailoring a load for each was the way to go for them.

 

[Mountain]

Even out of a gas gun I've had great results with Winchester Match with Sierra Match King 140's. Tried all the Hornady stuff and could get ~.66" groups from the 6.5CM AR at best, which is still pretty good. Tightest group I ever shot at 100 yards was ~0.12" with the Winchester / SMK ammo. I've come close with hand loads at an SD ~7 and ES in the mid-teens producing 1/4" groups when I do my job and always sub-MOA unless I really screw up the shot. As others have mentioned, price and availability will be the challenge.

 

[northny]

Just for some quick numbers. An online vendor who ships to MA has the Hornady ELD-M 147 gr 6.5 ammo for $2.25 per round. Shipping on 500 rounds is $17. $1141.75 shipped. DAMN.

I assume the 147 gr stuff is the ultra accurate ammo no?

The 147g is just what I shoot, and my gun likes it. There is a good argument that the 120g Hornady eld match is a better choice. It’s just an example of what you can do with factory ammo

there is also better ( more expensive) ammo that is likely even a better choice.

 

[Davidk]

Even out of a gas gun I've had great results with Winchester Match with Sierra Match King 140's. Tried all the Hornady stuff and could get ~.66" groups from the 6.5CM AR at best, which is still pretty good. Tightest group I ever shot at 100 yards was ~0.12" with the Winchester / SMK ammo. I've come close with hand loads at an SD ~7 and ES in the mid-teens producing 1/4" groups when I do my job and always sub-MOA unless I really screw up the shot. As others have mentioned, price and availability will be the challenge.

Winchester match is great stuff

 

[Cuz]

If your rifle is grouping near 1/2 Moa with factory ammo, your biggest problem is not your ammo, it’s your shooting

Don’t cheap out on the gun. You will regret it

I'm going to disagree slightly with David here. I think the optic you use is WAY more important than the rifle. A few years ago I bought a Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5CM "just for fun". I figured what the heck, I just joined Woodcock, and they had a 500 yard range so why not. I don't load rifle calibers so I bought the expensive Hornady ELD whatever it was ammo. I certainly considered that Ruger to be at the lower (cheaper) end of the Precision rifle category. I did NOT cheap out on the scope. As much of an amateur as i am with a rifle, I gotta say, after 100 rounds or so, it was pretty easy to tag the 4 inch plate at 500 yards. While that may not be a great feat in and of itself, it is considering how inexperienced I am with a rifle. If someone knew what they were doing, I bet they could hit a half-dollar all day long with my setup. I know I can't do it, I just don't have the patience. Heck, it's been a few years and about 500 rounds and I still haven't even cleaned the damn rifle yet.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I'm going to disagree slightly with David here. I think the optic you use is WAY more important than the rifle. A few years ago I bought a Ruger Precision rifle in 6.5CM "just for fun". I figured what the heck, I just joined Woodcock, and they had a 500 yard range so why not. I don't load rifle calibers so I bought the expensive Hornady ELD whatever it was ammo. I certainly considered that Ruger to be at the lower (cheaper) end of the Precision rifle category. I did NOT cheap out on the scope. As much of an amateur as i am with a rifle, I gotta say, after 100 rounds or so, it was pretty easy to tag the 4 inch plate at 500 yards. While that may not be a great feat in and of itself, it is considering how inexperienced I am with a rifle. If someone knew what they were doing, I bet they could hit a half-dollar all day long with my setup. I know I can't do it, I just don't have the patience. Heck, it's been a few years and about 500 rounds and I still haven't even cleaned the damn rifle yet.

Definitely not going to cheap out on the glass. I have a rifle budget and a glass budget. I’m going Night Force this time around. Going to take me a while but I’ll save enough sooner or later.

 

[LittleCalm]

If you are just hand loading match grade 308 or 6.5, just get a single stage press.

 

[Cuz]

Definitely not going to cheap out on the glass. I have a rifle budget and a glass budget. I’m going Night Force this time around. Going to take me a while but I’ll save enough sooner or later.

I looked at them, but in the end, I went with Minox. I had a hard time getting behind the NF and seeing the target. They are great scopes, but seemed to be designed more for an experienced shooter which I am definitely NOT. The Minox had a bigger eye box which made it a little easier (for me) to use.

 

[Steve_P]

Good call on the Nightforce. I went with the 7-35 ATACR on my new rifle and it is an amazing scope.

Regarding decent off the shelf ammo: check out the Berger loaded with the 140gr Hybrids. I haven't shot the 6.5CM, but have shot a ton of the 6creed - 105 hybrid load. Stupid accurate and low ES / SD in my 1st rifle. Barrel is a kreiger.
A little pricy, but also comes loaded in brand new lapua brass that you can sell off for decent price to reloaders after shooting. Helps to offset the cost a little.

I have been sticking with the Hornady ELD-M for my new rifle and it has performed well also. I swapped mostly due to the berger not being available when i finished the gun, so I picked up a decent stock of the hornady to get me going. Might switch back to berger once I burn up the 1st barrel....

 

[paul73]

I've been going back and forth about getting a new competition rifle

you are way overthinking it. if you question the price of the one you selected - go through that list below, it has more valid options. but i think you would love it, no matter what ammo you will feed it.

Top 25 Sharp-Shooting 6.5 Creedmoor Rifles (2023)

Choices abound when it comes to top 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. Here are some of the best to get the red-hot round dead on target.

gundigest.com

look at howa oryx, rock river (expensive), badrock is similar to the mpa, and bergara/savage is also an option.
like i told you before - my bergara shoots incredibly well, but it is just not as heavy as mpa, so, it jumps more.

 

[Broc]

If you shoot factory, save your brass, specially if shoot one made with desirable brass.

Then sell it on GB. You will at least recuperate part of your cost.

Or keep the brass for when you decide to reload.

The big challenge with factory, besides the cost, is availability.

 

[Broc]

If you're a reloader, and you're not sitting on a couple years' worth of components, you're not much of a reloader.

Really?

I only use Magnum LRP for one gun. I bought enough 5 years ago that I still have 5K primers ... I shoot that gun between 500 - 1500 rounds per year.

While 9mm, I shoot over 12K per year (reload all of it). Last time I bought primers was a little over a year ago.

And my large revolvers I am at around 1K to 1.5K per year.

I reload for all.

I guess I am not serious because I have a lot of LRP.

 

[PatMcD]

Really?

I only use Magnum LRP for one gun. I bought enough 5 years ago that I still have 5K primers ... I shoot that gun between 500 - 1500 rounds per year.

While 9mm, I shoot over 12K per year (reload all of it). Last time I bought primers was a little over a year ago.

And my large revolvers I am at around 1K to 1.5K per year.

I reload for all.

I guess I am not serious because I have a lot of LRP.

?
Isn't that basically agreeing with what
I said?