Can I hold onto someone else's guns

[hollowman]

So I have a nephew who is about to go through a divorce. His wife is already threatening to call the cops and say he is threatening to shoot her. I told him to help protect himself and his ltc from her craziness I would hold on to his guns till he is out of the woods. The question is can I just take them and put them in my safe or do we have to actually trasfere them to me and then back to him later. Also what is the limit for transfers I'm a given period. I want to help him out and also planning a new purchase soon.

most likely sent from my bathroom

 

[dennism]

Yup, you can just take possession. Only need to do a transfer if you take ownership (even temporarily).

Good call to take them all tho. If she is making those threats all phone calls should be recorded and face to face interactions not done without witness.

 

[DrBurnsides]

4 xfers per year. Probably easier if he's got a bunch to just go to an FFL for all the MA Dealer xferable ones and do the rest EFA10.

 

[MAD Geary]

Good thinking of being prepared. Transfer limit only applies to the sale of 4 firearms in a year. You can buy/receive as many as you want.

I believe there is an exclusion on efa10's when surrendering to another person...or something to that extent.

 

[jamesvt]

Yup, you can just take possession. Only need to do a transfer if you take ownership (even temporarily).

Good call to take them all tho. If she is making those threats all phone calls should be recorded and face to face interactions not done without witness.

This.

4 xfers per year. Probably easier if he's got a bunch to just go to an FFL for all the MA Dealer xferable ones and do the rest EFA10.

That would only be necessary if there is a change of ownership. In OP's case possession not ownership of the firearms is changing, so there is no need to transfer the firearms. via FFL or EFA10.

 

[abundigas]

My concern would be that if you hold them for him and she decides to file a R.O. for whatever reason, the police will take his L.T.C. and will be looking for the guns. If they have in fact been transferred to you then they are yours, and should be the end of that discussion.

 

[Dadstoys]

Tell him do not let her know where the guns are , only that they are gone and don't tell her ahead of time he's moving them.
I don't know that if a visit to the local PD to tell them she's threatened to do it would be wise or not, one of our legal aces might want to weigh in on that one.
If she's a loon it might be better to GTFO and keep some distance till it's settled.
This sort of thing very rarely comes down on the mans side.

- - - Updated - - -

My concern would be that if you hold them for him and she decides to file a R.O. for whatever reason, the police will take his L.T.C. and will be looking for the guns. If they have in fact been transferred to you then they are yours, and should be the end of that discussion.

^
This

 

[upcountry]

IANAL but just thinking--would it make any difference if a document were created, notarized or whatever, that states that all firearms are to be placed in the custody of so&so, stored and secured so the original owner has no access to them (and in compliance with state law), until any pending legal matters are resolved. Both sign the doc then move and secure the guns. Have his lawyer retain the doc as well as both parties.
Don't let the wife know they are gone. If they are legally, securely stored and he has no access and it is documented, would that work?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I believe there is an exclusion on efa10's when surrendering to another person...or something to that extent.

Nope, still limited to 4/calendar year.

My concern would be that if you hold them for him and she decides to file a R.O. for whatever reason, the police will take his L.T.C. and will be looking for the guns. If they have in fact been transferred to you then they are yours, and should be the end of that discussion.

Yes, and if he fails to tell the PD where the guns are he will face felony charges under C. 269 S. 10. At that point the police come to the friend's house and confiscate them but if you are unlucky they will take all the friend's guns too (SOP if in same house).

They need to be legally transferred to keep them from the bonded warehouse.

And if she is threatening, he can expect the RO and it won't matter that he has no access to the guns or gave them to a friend.

 

[WanMan99]

RO is on the way, lucky she gave him a warning. Get them transferred through a FFL asap. It is a common tactic in the modern divorce wars...

 

[MisterHappy]

Listen to LenS.

To repeat:

Listen to LenS.

Only way.

 

[swampy]

I'm not a lawyer but experienced at getting divorced. I was served a court order not to dispose of any assets so if he's planning to dump his guns he should do so before the divorce proceedings get too far. That being said he's better off transferring ownership while he can. That way you can show proof they are yours and not his. He can still buy them back from you afterwards...unless your not that good a friend...LOL. Be certain of the status of his LTC and clearing any ROs before transferring anything back to him.

 

[drgrant]

So I have a nephew who is about to go through a divorce. His wife is already threatening to call the cops and say he is threatening to shoot her. I told him to help protect himself and his ltc from her craziness I would hold on to his guns till he is out of the woods. The question is can I just take them and put them in my safe or do we have to actually trasfere them to me and then back to him later. Also what is the limit for transfers I'm a given period. I want to help him out and also planning a new purchase soon.

You need to have them lawfully transferred to you to have them immunized from confiscation.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Yup, you can just take possession. Only need to do a transfer if you take ownership (even temporarily).

If his nephew is retarded and runs his mouth to the police (and most people do because they're idiots when they get "braced" by police) he needs those guns lawfully transferred (with paper) to immunize them from an RO (209A/ Lautenbergt) confiscation. Otherwise the RO easily follows the guns and gets the guns when people run their mouth. Even if he lives out of state.

This isn't the same kind of thing as like a dead license, someone dealing with a DUI, that kind of thing. DV ROs are much more powerful WRT gun confiscation than that horseshit is.

After his whole thing is done and he gets his guns transferred back he should go to Frank Lautenberg's grave in NJ or wherever it is and just take a giant shit on it. **** that guy. I hope he burns in hell for all the blood and pain on his hands.

-Mike

 

[Da_lucche]

Your nephew should file a RO on his soon to be ex wife first.

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[drgrant]

Yes, and if he fails to tell the PD where the guns are he will face felony charges under C. 269 S. 10. At that point the police come to the friend's house and confiscate them but if you are unlucky they will take all the friend's guns too (SOP if in same house).

I've never heard of that actually happening but it doesn't mean its impossible. Your advice is still sound though, because IMHO most people are idiots with regards to talking to the police and if he's not familiar with or well trained on 4A issues his nephew -will- run his mouth to the police, he might as well count on that happening like a bear taking a shit in the woods.

Your nephew should file a RO on his soon to be ex wife first.

In Mass? The judge will probably laugh at him because he has the wrong chromosomes. The gender discrimination in MA courts WRT DV issues is mind numbing, but nobody gives a flying **** if a male is ever an actual victim, or if a easy to prove false claim is made against a male.

-Mike

 

[rcwhat]

Your nephew should file a RO on his soon to be ex wife first.

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This, if I was being threatened with one, I'd go one step further and file one myself.

 

[Asaltweapon]

RO's are a game changer for sure and not to be fooled around with. FFL them to you if needed. When the crap is over FFL back to him.

Ive held stuff for guys going thru some stuff outside of RO's. Mainly kids who were not being trusted for one reason or another.


BTW Mike, Bears done shit in the woods. They do it in a field and throw it in.

 

[firestorm]

Don't wait, waiting too long will wind up with him losing them all. Worst case if she doesn't file an RO and he is still legally allowed to have/use them he can use them while you own and store them. Then if he does get the RO on him, he has nothing for them to take except the license. If it somehow winds up permanent, you can sell them off later with him having no access and just give him the money.

 

[dhuze]

I wouldn't wait one more minute if she was saying she'll tell the police he's threatening to shoot her. That's a crime by itself. Transfer them as soon as possible and tell her he sold them so she can't use it against him later.
If she thinks he still has them she still might do it, but if he "sells" them and tells he she'll lose that leverage. If he doesn't tell her she can still say he's threatening to shoot her.

Oh and he should hire a lawyer ASAP and tell him about her threats. Get it on record now just in case.

 

[Individualist]

Do it first thing tomorrow. Don't wait.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've never heard of that actually happening but it doesn't mean its impossible. Your advice is still sound though, because IMHO most people are idiots with regards to talking to the police and if he's not familiar with or well trained on 4A issues his nephew -will- run his mouth to the police, he might as well count on that happening like a bear taking a shit in the woods.
-Mike

Mike,

From Glidden's Book, 4th Edition (text of law is C. 140 S 129D). These are his notes for this section:

1. Initial Surrender to Licensing Authority: If the FID Card or LTC is revoked, this section requires that the firearms, rifles, shotguns or ammunition be first surrendered to the licensing authority before it is transferred to a licensed dealer or another licensed person. As such, the weapons or ammunition could not be transferred to a friend or family member directly from the person who has been revoked. The guns and ammunition must first be surrendered to police, and then may be transferred to a licensed dealer or another licensed individual.

6. Failure to Surrender: Failure to surrender LTC, FID, Machine Gun License or weapons or ammunition in accordance with the provisions of this section are punishable under c.269, §10(i).

and here is C. 269 S. 10(i):

Refusal to surrender revoked or suspended LTC or FID
(i) Whoever knowingly fails to deliver or surrender a revoked or suspended license to carry or possess firearms or machine guns issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one or one hundred and thirty-one F of chapter one hundred and forty, or firearm identification card, or receipt for the fee for such card, or a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, as provided in section one hundred and twenty-nine D of chapter one hundred and forty, unless an appeal is pending shall be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than two and one-half years or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars.
Classification: Misdemeanor
Penalty: Up to 2½ years in HOC or by a fine of up to $1000
Right of Arrest: No for this subsection. However, such a person could be arrested if there was probable cause to believe he was in violation of paragraphs (a) or (h) of this section because he had firearms, rifles or shotguns in his possession without a FID Card or LTC.

LE interpretation is that you can't appeal prior to notification and since they notify at the same time they confiscate, you can't have an appeal in process, therefore must immediately surrender.

I'm aware that Swatgig convinced a judge otherwise but it is the first time I ever heard of a successful defense against this (injustice) and not something we should count on from our Marsupial judges.

 

[UNSUB]

So I have a nephew who is about to go through a divorce. His wife is already threatening to call the cops and say he is threatening to shoot her. I told him to help protect himself and his ltc from her craziness I would hold on to his guns till he is out of the woods. The question is can I just take them and put them in my safe or do we have to actually trasfere them to me and then back to him later. Also what is the limit for transfers I'm a given period. I want to help him out and also planning a new purchase soon.

most likely sent from my bathroom

Here is my advice to you for your nephew. I am not a lawyer I reside in MA worked in LE and went through a very similar scenario.
I moved out of my residence that I shared with my exwife after getting out of the service. I did this while she was at work to avoid conflict and moved in with my parents at 30. I filed for divorce took my stuff and things that were "mine" firearms tools personal photos clothes etc. 6 months later after having no contact even by phone I was served with a 209A (restraining order) because my ex came home one night found a window ajar and claimed I was trying to break in (that coupled with a statement about how she was afraid for her life bc I had military training etc etc). I turned in my LTC and firearms. Filed for an emergency hearing before a judge in which I had to pay my divorce attorney an additional $5000 to fight for the 209A. Got the hearing explained to the judge I left her hadn't seen or spoken to her in 6 months and wanted nothing to do with her. Judge believed me wrote on the 209 A to return my license and all items surrendered. I went to Boston PD (the original issuer). They didn't want to give my LTC back (actual statement). I had to get the Clerk of Courts in Cambridge family Probate to call them and sternly remind them of the Judges ruling. They were jerks and I got it back.

My advice may seem lame but this us reality not lala land. She is going to have him served, its not if its when. Divorce sucks, people fight over money, and attorneys are @ssh0les (sorry Len). She is not going to magically hold back shes going to do him the moment she feels threatened emotionally, physically (real or imagined) or financially. The worse it gets the more threatened he is going to feel he could hurt himself or even her. Worse case scenario is when people break and they do, and anybody on this forum who has been divorced knows what I am talking about and if you haven't shut your pie hole. Its one of those douchey momemnts where people do the I almost went in the service speeches, you didn't so you don't get it. So my advice is this. He should sell his firearms (he's going to need the cash for the divorce, and unless he needs it for work its just an obstacle). By selling them they are gone so no threat real or imaginary. If he transfers them instead of selling them he can be accused of hiding assets which will come out if she has a semi decent attorney so unless he has some unicorn gun, it sucks be he can buy them again. Let the whiney hating begin Lemmings.

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[DrBurnsides]

Remind me why I should ever want to get married again?

 

[UNSUB]

Remind me why I should ever want to get married again?

Probably to avoid Herpes,AIDS, Genital Worts, Syph, MRSA, HEPC or worse dating[emoji7]

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[CholupaBatman]

Tell him to look in to installing a location tracking app on his smartphone. Could be useful in proving that he was/wasn't at a specific location at a specific time. If she accused him of showing up somewhere and threatening her it could be used as evidence that she is a crazy bitch.

 

[Drix]

I'm sorry OP, but

 

[LukeIronSight]

Tough situation for sure, I had a friend who almost lost his LTC to a vary similar situation.
Witness aren't much help, the law will likely side with the woman on these types of incidents.
Recordings are good but he won't be able to use any recordings as evidence if they were obtained without her knowledge and consent.
Best thing to do in this situation is file for a temporary restraining order, it would put him as victim and her as harasser, giving him in the "upper hand" position and voiding almost all accusations she could futurity make.



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[UNSUB]

Tell him to look in to installing a location tracking app on his smartphone. Could be useful in proving that he was/wasn't at a specific location at a specific time. If she accused him of showing up somewhere and threatening her it could be used as evidence that she is a crazy bitch.

It doesn't prove he had his phone.

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[UNSUB]

Tough situation for sure, I had a friend who almost lost his LTC to a vary similar situation.
Witness aren't much help, the law will most likely side with the woman on these types of incidents.
Recordings are good but he won't be able to use any recordings as evidence if they were recorded without her knowledge and consent.
Best thing to do in this situation is file for a temporary restraining order, it would put him as victim and her as the harasser, putting him in an advantageous position and voiding almost all accusations she could futurity make.


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Mass is biased against men. Without a proven history of violence or an incident where the cops catch her assaulting him the judge/Clerk wont sign off on it. She will ultimately take out a cross complaint and get the 209a.

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