CA - Assembly Passes Bill Prohibiting "Open Carry"

[seanc]

Never happen. You don't stay in office in California by pissing off all of Los Angeles. Besides, gun control is for the little people.

You'd like to think that some pro 2A congress critter out there would insert it into every anti 2A bill as a poison pill.

On the flip side. Is there any "Show Biz" exemptions in mass?? With the talk of that movie studio as well as all of the films being shot here. It would be nice to see some sort of mass arrest/ actor round up on the set happen here in mass to highlight the stupidity of the laws here.

 

[cekim]

You'd like to think that some pro 2A congress critter out there would insert it into every anti 2A bill as a poison pill.

On the flip side. Is there any "Show Biz" exemptions in mass?? With the talk of that movie studio as well as all of the films being shot here. It would be nice to see some sort of mass arrest/ actor round up on the set happen here in mass to highlight the stupidity of the laws here.

I've been wondering about that with MP5s, AA12s and the like showing up (and being fired) on shows how they are handling that?

There are no exemptions in MA law that I have ever read.

There was some recent filming in Boston that involved full-auto fire... Was it a replica or did the actor have an MG card? If not, a law was broken according to the CHSB.

Same goes for various movies filmed in the UK, it would seem that in some instances, all sorts of goodies the little people can't even think about have made it to movie sets despite their laws.

But then, actors are part of the new royalty, so the laws don't apply to them...

At any rate, I wouldn't hold your breath at this point, either for an actor to come out for this fight or a round up of a movie cast. The reality is that our laws are designed and functioning as intended by progressives to be used either politically or in lieu of laws that would read as the blatant elitist racism they are if they were written in any other more direct way.

The code for such legislation is "don't worry, we will only enforce it on the bad people"... I am sure that any "progressive" legislator would poo-poo the idea that law abiding citizens need to be concerned by our gun registration and onerous laws because they clearly wouldn't enforce the ridiculous letter of the law against grandma right?

"Not me" at its finest...

 

[GSG]

What really needs to happen here is to get things really started is to have somebody repeal all of the exemptions for firearms used in movies.
Convicted Felon/ non eligible actor w/ a gun?
Non CA compliant gun?
CC w/o a permit, etc..

This would hit them extremely hard and you'd see every movie studio in Ca howl.

You're not kidding. This is an excellant idea, since as cekim said, laws like this only highlight how it's OK to have and use guns if you're entertaining, but not if you just want to protect your life with them.

I haven't read the text of this new law in CA (AB 1934), but chances are it hasn't changed this part.

California Penal Code Section 12026.2:

(a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a
motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment
event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that
production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly
from, that production or event.

The section of penal code that actors and actresses are exempt from is 12025, which means that they can carry concealed on the way to and from the movie set without a permit.

they are banning the open carry of EMPTY guns !

They might as well ban the carrying of hammers, as it's actually a similar shape.

They lost something of zero value - the ability to carry an EMPTY gun.

Not quite guys. They actually lost both the legal ability to carry unloaded guns exposed and the legal ability to carry loaded guns exposed.

http://californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

I’ve heard that I can only Open Carry in counties with a population less than 200,000. Is that true?

No. This language and this number come from PC 12050, which in addition to concealed carry permits, allows sheriffs to issue permits to carry “loaded and exposed”, but only in counties with a population less than 200,000. These permits are even more elusive than the rare concealed carry permits, and have no bearing on the otherwise legal carry of firearms.

Granted those permits don't appear to be common there, but there's one more thing.

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/54219

The bill would make it a misdemeanor, punishable by a $1,000 fine and six months in jail, to carry an exposed handgun in a public place or on a public street in a city or in prohibited areas of unincorporated county territory.
The bill contains numerous exceptions, including display of a firearm by a peace officer, a firearms dealer, a target-shooter at a range, a gun-show participant, and by a licensed hunter while engaged in that sport.

You'll notice that there isn't an exemption listed for people with a carry permit. So if someone with a carry permit accidentally exposes their gun in CA, they'll now face criminal charges and fines under this new bill, AB 1934. (Although I am quoting a news story here for legal info, so hopefully I'm wrong, but knowing CA, I'm probably right).

On the flip side. Is there any "Show Biz" exemptions in mass?? With the talk of that movie studio as well as all of the films being shot here. It would be nice to see some sort of mass arrest/ actor round up on the set happen here in mass to highlight the stupidity of the laws here.

I've been wondering about that with MP5s, AA12s and the like showing up (and being fired) on shows how they are handling that?

There are no exemptions in MA law that I have ever read.

There was some recent filming in Boston that involved full-auto fire... Was it a replica or did the actor have an MG card? If not, a law was broken according to the CHSB.

Yes, there is an exemption in MA.

MGL 140-131F 1/2:

Chapter 140: Section 131F1/2. Theatrical productions; carrying firearms and blank ammunition


Section 131F1/2. Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of section ten of chapter two hundred and sixty-nine of the General Laws or any other law to the contrary, the carrying or possession of a firearm and blank ammunition therefor, during the course of any television, movie, stage or other similar theatrical production, by a person within such production, shall be authorized; provided, however, that such carrying or possession of such firearm shall be under the immediate supervision of a person licensed to carry firearms.

I can't find any case law on the subject for MA, though.

 

[glockstones]

The reason we can't just hole up in our houses is because these people are on a crusade and in this crusade they will sniff you out and try to take anything you have that they don't understand themselves away from you. Whats more they are god fearing of the gun because they know the meaning f the second amendment is to allow us the citizen to if needed mobilize to a militia and take the peoples government back. I do think that our founding fathers didn't expect people like rosie and oprah some of the wealthiest people in this country to be fueling a movement to tear down what they bled for and watch people die for. I for one do open carry it is my birth right as an american and I personally feel it shows my appreciation of what those men and women did to make this country the greatest and most stand alone. As far as thinking everyone should open carry that has the means you cannot be forced to do so the founding fathers gave you this right too. But I do think that any gun owner who does not show up to vote when they try and pass these laws like Devals' should really sit down and consider actually calling themselves a real second amender or even gun owner. The only people that can start to make this country better are the people who make up the majority of this country waiting arund for elected officials who no offence are alot of the time only worried about getting elected again is not working. Just my thought on what is happening in the USA and in shamfull California.

 

[cekim]

Yes, there is an exemption in MA.

MGL 140-131F 1/2:

That exemption would be in conflict with the CHSB's policy on handling of machine guns by unlicensed individuals though in which they say "there is no exception".

But interesting find, thank you...

 

[jcr]

At the risk of bring much wrath upon my head, this could be taken as proof of the wisdom that sometimes calling too much attention to oneself isn't a good idea.

Open Carry Protests work in states that have existing (court tested) rights to open carry, the purpose of the protest is to get a non-discretionary Concealed Carry Law.

The statement being made is "I'd love to be a concealed carrier so your fragile psyche won't be troubled, but you won't pass the CCW law."

There had been several states in this category, but now, I think, Wisconsin is the only remaining one.
.

 

[jcr]

Assemblywoman Lori Saldana, a San Diego Democrat who crafted the measure, said it is meant to assist police officers who must respond to reports of a gun-toting person or crowd without knowing whether the firearms are loaded or the participants violent.

California law currently allows officers to examine whether the weapons are loaded but not to demand identification or gun-registration documents from the owners, she said.

Saldana said the open display of guns could make the protesters a target for street toughs or criminals who covet their weapons.

In an era of diminishing public safety resources, it makes no sense to assign police to "baby-sit" people who decide to tote guns simply to draw attention to themselves, she said.

What a moron Saldana is!

The save-resources-by-not-having-to-assign-babysitters argument would work just as well to disallow protests by her SEIU friends.

But the law is useless in accomplishing it stop the protests function, anyway. I'd immediately organize a protest with everyone carrying toy guns in real holsters. The police would "have to" check that they are toys.

The law would curtail some real, limited self-defense though. Open, unloaded carry is not great, but if it is all that you have, it is an option.
.

 

[jasons]

I'd immediately organize a protest with everyone carrying toy guns in real holsters. The police would "have to" check that they are toys.

That's not a bad idea....

 

[Bill Nance]

The law would curtail some real, limited self-defense though. Open, unloaded carry is not great, but if it is all that you have, it is an option.
.

What are you going to do with your unloaded gun? Use it as a club? It's more likely to get you killed than protect you from anything.

 

[GSG]

That exemption would be in conflict with the CHSB's policy on handling of machine guns by unlicensed individuals though in which they say "there is no exception".

I'm willing to bet that it would, although I'm not as quick on the draw with full auto legal technicalities in MA as I am with non-Class 3 guns. It would also conflict with federal laws regarding felons in possession of firearms.

There are several other convictions that are misdemeanors under Mass. state law that will trigger this federal prohibition; I'm listing some of them here as examples, but this is not an all-inclusive list.

Simple Assault/Assault & Battery

MGL 265-13A says in part:



(The actor Mark Wahlberg has a conviction for this in Mass., and is a federally prohibited person because of it).

Here's a picture of Mr. Wahlberg, who's a federally prohibited person, in possession of a firearm in Massachusetts on the film set of The Departed.

No, he wasn't prosecuted for it.

There had been several states in this category, but now, I think, Wisconsin is the only remaining one.

All shall issue LTC legislation has passed a couple of times in the state, but been shot down anyway by the governor IIRC.

The law would curtail some real, limited self-defense though. Open, unloaded carry is not great, but if it is all that you have, it is an option.

+1

What are you going to do with your unloaded gun? Use it as a club? It's more likely to get you killed than protect you from anything.

Under CA's old law you could carry the gun unloaded and exposed, but with loaded mags on your person as well. As I'm sure you know, there are counties in CA who simply do not issue CCW's (not even to cops, not even to cops who work for those agencies that issue them). The old method was without a doubt probably one of the worst carry methods available for self defense, but at least legally one had that option.

 

[jasons]

Here's a picture of Mr. Wahlberg, who's a federally prohibited person, in possession of a firearm in Massachusetts on the film set of The Departed.

Devil's advocate question: How do you know that was a firearm under the MA definition?

 

[GSG]

Devil's advocate question: How do you know that was a firearm under the MA definition?

MA law doesn't recognize him as a federally prohibited person, hence the reason why they'd issue someone like that an FID. All the feds require is a frame, which that clearly is.

But all that aside, it is a real gun, it's in the NRA museum.

***Edited to add***

They keep invoices of which guns were used in films, complete with serial numbers, etc. If they wanted to make a case, then they could make a case. The feds have prosecuted based on video alone of people handling and firing guns; documentation confirming it like that and having the guns posted in a museum with the credentials would make it a slam dunk case IMO.

 

[Powerslide]

Assemblywoman Lori Saldana, a San Diego Democrat who crafted the measure, said it is meant to assist police officers who must respond to reports of a gun-toting person or crowd without knowing whether the firearms are loaded or the participants violent.
...
Saldana said the open display of guns could make the protesters a target for street toughs or criminals who covet their weapons.

Coming soon to Sacramento: Legislators ban open carry of purses, watches, and jewelry. "Open display of purses could make the individuals a target for street toughs or criminals who covet their purses."

 

[mousegunfan]

"Saldana said the open display of guns could make the protesters a target for street toughs or criminals who covet their weapons."

Well then, maybe pass a law that lets them carry with the gun loaded instead. Then lets see how may street thugs take their weapons. I don't see thugs mugging cops for their weapons. Wonder why!

 

[M1911]

You're kidding yourself.

Again, most people who are urbanites and people who've never held a gun or have no information about it find open-carry intimidating as Hell. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S A RATIONAL FEAR. People are NOT rational animals and fear is the most powerful of all emotions. Rallying cry? In California? Sure, a rallying cry for the Antis. Not enough people in California like the idea of open-carry to make this a normal practice that's no big deal. Not going to happen any time in the near future.

Open carry protests in places like California may have their place. ACT-UP actually served a useful purpose in the long run for Gay rights even if their tactics were radical and offensive to most people. If that's the view of the open-carry stuff in CA then I tend to support it. If it's the intention to change anyone's mind in the near future it's catastrophically counter-productive.

Having lived in Menlo Park, CA, for four years, I am in violent agreement with Bill Nance.

 

[rep308]

History Lesson:

Ronald Reagan prohibited the open carry of loaded firearms. Black men in Oakland were tired of getting beat up by the police so they took to walking around with loaded shotguns and the police left them alone. They had a party, the Black Panther Party

When they showed up at a rally for an unarmed black man who was shot 10 times for a protest armed with said weapons Gov Reagan signed a law to make it illegal.

Please read this:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...on-open-carry-of-guns--Deja-Vu-all-over-again