Buying in Vermont - transporting to CT

[ToeRag]

I have a question.. that involves 3 states.

Can I drive to Vermont buy a gun, and drive home.... ?

1. I assume I can purchase in Vermont, just with my drivers license, over 21.

2. Drive through MA and CT with fingers crosssed...

3. Get home and put in my gun safe.

if all above is possible, not really legal... how would I legally register my gun in CT?

Is the right way to do this, by asking th VT gun shop to ship to an FFL dealer in my state?

 

[Cross-X]

If you are buying handguns, don't bring them to or through MA. It would be illegal for you to do so.

 

[kevin9]

By fed law handguns purchased out-of-state must go through an FFL in your state (C&R license not withstanding). Long guns can be bought in person from an out-of-state dealer.

Not sure about transport through MA, although I suspect it might be OK as long as it complies with the MA AWB.

 

[terraformer]

If you are buying handguns, don't bring them to or through MA. It would be illegal for you to do so.

I thought federal law allowed for transport through a state so long as the gun is legal in both the start and destination states?

 

[zombie]

I thought federal law allowed for transport through a state so long as the gun is legal in both the start and destination states?

It does.

 

[Cross-X]

I thought federal law allowed for transport through a state so long as the gun is legal in both the start and destination states?

MA law does not. You could get yourself into an expensive state law crime vs. federal defense. Why bother? Once you have made a legal purchase, save yourself the trouble by mailing your guns from VT to yourself at your CT address.

 

[jdubois]

MA law does not. You could get yourself into an expensive state law crime vs. federal defense. Why bother? Once you have made a legal purchase, save yourself the trouble by mailing your guns from VT to yourself at your CT address.

Just to clarify, Cross-X is still talking about handguns here. Long guns are legal to transport through MA for a non-resident as long as you don't run afoul of the MA AWB.

And as kevin9 pointed out, you cannot buy a handgun from a state other than your state of residence, unless you have an FFL. So I hope that's not what you're planning.

 

[ToeRag]

MA law does not. You could get yourself into an expensive state law crime vs. federal defense. Why bother? Once you have made a legal purchase, save yourself the trouble by mailing your guns from VT to yourself at your CT address.

ahh... This is the answer I was looking for.

So it is perfectly LEGAL for me to drive to VT, purchase a handgun and then just go to a US Post Office and mail it to myself?

 

[jdubois]

So it is perfectly LEGAL for me to drive to VT, purchase a handgun and then just go to a US Post Office and mail it to myself?

No, and no.

 

[calsdad]

If I am wrong on any of this please correct me.

1) I doubt that a dealer in VT would sell you a firearm without a VERMONT drivers license (unlikely they would sell to somebody with a CT license)

2) As others have mentioned it is only legal to transfer handguns from state to state thru an FFL (federal law) - unless you already own the handgun legally in your state of residence (meaning it was previously bought thru an FFL or face to face in your state of residence) - and then it is only legal to carry that handgun into another state if:

a) you have a carry license issued from that state, or:

b) I believe you can transport into a state where you don't have a license if you are doing so for the purposes of competition. But in doing so you still must meet all the laws of permissible firearms allowed in that state ( in MA means the high cap laws and so forth)


- of course as usual the reality is that you can do anything you want as long as you don't get get caught. This is legally referred to as committing a crime.

 

[calsdad]

Oh yeah - I don't think the US Post Office accepts firearms as a mailable item. They have to go overnight on FedEx or UPS.

 

[jdubois]

b) I believe you can transport into a state where you don't have a license if you are doing so for the purposes of competition.

That's dependent on individual state law. What you have said above is true for MA, at least.

Oh yeah - I don't think the US Post Office accepts firearms as a mailable item. They have to go overnight on FedEx or UPS.

Correct. The USPS allows FFL to FFL mailing of handguns (C&R FFL not included), as well as mailing to certain listed government agencies and employees (military, mostly). Otherwise, handguns are not mailable. UPS and FedEx will ship handguns, with certain restrictions.

 

[terraformer]

MA law does not. You could get yourself into an expensive state law crime vs. federal defense. Why bother? Once you have made a legal purchase, save yourself the trouble by mailing your guns from VT to yourself at your CT address.

I can't imagine this has not been settled by now. No one has challenged this? So, the only way to go west from New England is to go through Canada or NY (and MA too if in VT, ME or NH). Obviously Canada is out if carrying firearms and given NYs rules on transport (http://www.ocshooters.com/Misc/packing.htm), the only way is to ship them? Now, does that mean the UPS guy is committing the crime then? How about the airlines (and myself) if I fly over the state. The state's laws apply to airspace, correct?

I thought it was this very scenario that the federal law was designed to clarify? This has got to stop.

 

[ToeRag]

Sorry for all the discussion on this .

I have my answer, I'll either restrict my purchases to CT or just ask the gun shop to ship the gun to my local FFL dealer if I buy in VT.

I just thought there would be a way to avoid the transfer fees. I didn't want to do anything illegal.

 

[ASG]

ahh... This is the answer I was looking for.

So it is perfectly LEGAL for me to drive to VT, purchase a handgun and then just go to a US Post Office and mail it to myself?

Long guns yes, handguns no.

 

[RKG]

MA law does not. You could get yourself into an expensive state law crime vs. federal defense. Why bother? Once you have made a legal purchase, save yourself the trouble by mailing your guns from VT to yourself at your CT address.

Massachusetts law does not have a choice as to whether or not to "recognize" the federal statute. And I can testify from personal knowledge that the Massachusetts district courts (where the issue will arise on a motion to dismiss) -- or at least a good number of them -- are quite familiar with FOPA.

 

[buketduder]

yes..you can go to VT..or NH...or Maine..or lots of states and buy a long gun and bring it to CT...no need to register..just make sure its not 7.62 x 39 (AK-47)....VT dealers don't know our laws and they will sell you a gun that's not CT legal (it is not there job to know our laws...its yours)...you cannot LEGALLY buy a handgun in VT....but if you did come across a private "transfer" from a friend/family...you can bring it back to CT and keep it in your home or business without a permit..and again..no need to register...

 

[MichaelDagnillo]

n a maine resident purchase in vermont without all the red tape other states put folks through??

 

[jdubois]

What red tape are you specifically referring to?

 

[appraiser]

Mailing a handgun via USPS if you are not a FFL holder is a huge no no

You can not purchase a handgun out of state and bring it across a state line. This is assuming the person selling to you in VT is either totally ignorant of the law, or just stupid enough to break any one of hundred laws.

It must be shipped FFL to FFL. If you saw something you liked in VT at a gun shop have them ship it direct to your friendly local FFL for a fee. Private party sale go to a friendly FFL with the selling party and have the FFL do the transfer and shipping to your FFL in Ct.

 

[jdubois]

It must be shipped FFL to FFL. If you saw something you liked in VT at a gun shop have them ship it direct to your friendly local FFL for a fee. Private party FTF sale go to a friendly FFL with the selling party and have the FFL do the transfer and shipping to your FFL in Ct.

It doesn't have to be FFL to FFL. You, as a non-FFL, can legally ship directly to a buyer's FFL in another state.

 

[appraiser]

I bow to your superior knowledge

 

[jdubois]

It's certainly true that often times an FFL won't accept a shipment from a non-FFL. It's also true in the case of handguns that it can be cheaper to ship through an FFL, even with whatever fees they might charge because, as you said, the FFL can ship the gun USPS whereas you must ship it UPS/Fedex.

 

[tripletap]

The USPS allows FFL to FFL mailing of handguns (C&R FFL not included), as well as mailing to certain listed government agencies and employees (military, mostly). Otherwise, handguns are not mailable. UPS and FedEx will ship handguns, with certain restrictions.

Not exactly - First and foremost you must have a copy of your FFL license on file with the PO you ship from. You must declare yourself to the postmaster of that Postal facility and give him/her your copy.

Then and only then can you ship direct from FFL to FFL (You as an FFL to another FFL) and YOU MUST SHIP US PRIORITY 3 DAY MAIL - no book rates, no regular mail.

Now - "I think" but this I'm not sure of - your local postmaster can deny any shipments (it's solely up to his/her discretion) he/she can deny you the ability to ship out of his/her facility if he/she so desires - no matter who you are ...

 

[jdubois]

Not exactly - First and foremost you must have a copy of your FFL license on file with the PO you ship from. You must declare yourself to the postmaster of that Postal facility and give him/her your copy.

Yes, I didn't bother to talk about the affidavit or Form 1508 procedure, since I figured any dealers reading this would already know about it.

Then and only then can you ship direct from FFL to FFL (You as an FFL to another FFL) and YOU MUST SHIP US PRIORITY 3 DAY MAIL - no book rates, no regular mail.

There are a few other people who can ship and/or receive handguns in the mail- Military officers, some LEO, USPS employees with permission, purchasing agents of the previously mentioned people, and watchmen guarding government property.

I'm not aware of any postal regulations that demand Priority mail for handgun shipments, but I'm willing to assume I've just missed it.