"but why do you have guns?"

[Ducttape4all]

reach over, put your hands around her throat and ask her if she thinks a cop could help her.

Or grab her by the throat and tell her to try to dial 911

Tell her the average response time of the police in MA last year was 19 minutes IIRC.

 

[Silversnake]

Is educating them pointless? I really don't know anymore - I do know that it can be an exercise in futility.

Apologies if this has been covered as I didn't read all the responses in depth. For someone who reacts as you described, I'm betting it's 99% pointless to try to educate her. HOWEVER, there is that 1% chance that you planted a seed of doubt that will turn into a rational thought about guns some day. More importantly, by having the calm rational discussion with her, you may have had a good impact on the opinions of one or more people who were nearby that were on the fence about supporting second amendment rights for others or even exercising them themselves - simply by being a walking example that gun owners are not all ignorant knuckle-draggers ready for a frothing at the mouth argument and just itching to kill someone for no good reason. That's a potential win in my book if you've got the 5 minutes to have the polite discussion.

 

[Jamie]

Grew up in a house that was somewhat anti. My dad had his 18ga shotgun from his childhood pheasant hunting days and had ammo near by. Never locked up, just in the parents closet.
Bought my first gun 2 years ago completely against my parents approval. Here we are 2 years later, and my mom gave me $1,000 from my grandpa's passing to buy a 1911 in remembrance of him and his service in WWII. She will be out here from Seattle in July and can't wait to see the gun and possibly shoot it!
Pretty funny to see her change her mindset...

Does Dad still have this gun? 18 gauge is super-rare. I'd love to see one.

 

[Inferno]

Does Dad still have this gun? 18 gauge is super-rare. I'd love to see one.

Yeah he does, but it's back in Seattle. Maybe when I fly back there late August, I'll bring it back with me. He said he would give it to me if I wanted it. The only thing I remember about it was the engravings and such on it.

 

[Inferno]

Yeah he does, but it's back in Seattle. Maybe when I fly back there late August, I'll bring it back with me. He said he would give it to me if I wanted it. The only thing I remember about it was the engravings and such on it.

Then again, I could be VERY wrong. It could just be a 20. But for some reason 18 stands out as what he told me it was back when I was a kid...

 

[SMagee]

Grew up in a house that was somewhat anti. My dad had his 18ga shotgun from his childhood pheasant hunting days and had ammo near by. Never locked up, just in the parents closet.
Bought my first gun 2 years ago completely against my parents approval. Here we are 2 years later, and my mom gave me $1,000 from my grandpa's passing to buy a 1911 in remembrance of him and his service in WWII. She will be out here from Seattle in July and can't wait to see the gun and possibly shoot it!
Pretty funny to see her change her mindset...

Thats an awesome way to remember (I assume) her father and your grandfather. If you do take her shooting you may want to start off on some smaller stuff. PM me if you need to borrow something smaller. Don't want to scare her away with 1 shot.

 

[Jose]

Then again, I could be VERY wrong. It could just be a 20. But for some reason 18 stands out as what he told me it was back when I was a kid...

It's going to be an 16 or a 20. Shotgun bore sizes were standardized by the english in the mid to late 19th century and an 18 gauge was not among the choices.

 

[Jose]

I would do the unfathomable to protect a stranger's sheltered life.

Why?

In this age of information there is simply NO way that a rational person cannot know that there are psycopaths in our midst. There is also NO way that a person cannot find out that they can arm themselves to act in their self defense.

All of that leads me to conclude that they willfully assume victim status. Therefore they are not worth me risking prison time or death to do for them what they themselves refuse to do.

F them all.

 

[mikem317]

I honestly don't give a crap anymore. I don't need to explain myself. Nor should anybody here on NES.

Put it this way, everybody makes their own choices in life. Some people think that guns are icky, or the police will show up instantaneously if they're being attacked, or they'll get five German Shepherds that they'll bring everywhere, yada, yada, yada.

Other people take more measured, rational responses to real-life threats. Others, I guess, don't.

 

[mikem317]

Alot of people simply think they are immune to danger or criminal action. They think because they haven't been robbed or attacked that it will never happen. They also hear from a young age(especially in Mass) that guns=evil. When talking with family about my desire to apply for my LTC the first things I hear are "I don't want a gun around me" or "I don't want it in my house" as if its gonna leap out of my holster and attack them. As the months have passed by my family has warmed to the idea of it simply because I've been talking to them about potential dangers out there, and why I wanna be prepared for that situation should it ever occur.

I think it's called "recency bias". In other words, because something has NEVER happened to them, it can't POSSIBLY happen to them. For point of reference, they only have their past.

 

[SteelShooter]

I say "why do you speak freely"? Why is your first amendment more important than my second?

 

[OfficerObie59]

Angel,

Understanding your audience is critical for this kind of discussion.

Some people are curious and don't have strong convictions either way, they're asking out of genuine curiosity.

Others are asking because they're fearful. they're asking in the hopes of challenging and changing your own beliefs.

The prior group IS worth talking to, explaining and holding a meaningful conversation about firearms, firearms ownership, how, why and even "what if" senerios. The later group is preaching. These conversations are at best, a waste of breath and more likely to create additional tension rather then relieve it. Some people are simply so convinced that "firearms are evil" or "only a criminal has need of a firearms" that the conversation will only convince the person that you're evil, an unstable mass murderer just waiting for a hat to drop to spark off a shooting spree.

I completely disagree, for a multitude of reasons, chief amongst them being it helps to sharpen your own opinions. If your own views are never challenged, you'll never be prepared for when a member of the first group whose on the fence witnesses he conversation. They may very well base thier views on who has the better argument, and if you never practice, you won't be as prepared to crush their anti arguments with facts.

For example, about the only thing that could've been about AngelKing's speech was actually citing the debunked study about "you're X time more likely to be killed in your own home than you are by an intruder". But because it came up and he participated in a debate where his own views were challenged, I'm tempted to look it up so I'm prepared the next time I'm in his shoes.

 

[OfficerObie59]

I think it's called "recency bias". In other words, because something has NEVER happened to them, it can't POSSIBLY happen to them. For point of reference, they only have their past.

Or "ecological fallacy"---the misconception that your experiences are the norm of the rest of the population. Seems to infect liberals more so because they think the universe revolves around them and their views.

 

[GunGrey]

because i want them............end..........of..........conversation

 

[Nitro]

"I just don't understand the mentality. We have police for a reason."

- Thats assuming you're able to call them.

Should have went with something graphic like .. "That worked out great for the guy in miami, the police showed up after his face was chewed off to shoot the druggie. The cops gun saved his life, if he had a gun he could have saved his face".
It would take libtard of epic proportions to even attempt to try to spin that into a he was better off without a gun argument.

 

[KBCraig]

This is just as bad as her ignorant statements about guns; you object to what you view as an attack on your natural right to defend yourself, a right that I suspect all of us here recognize, value, and rely upon, yet at the same time attack one of the (many) methods by which a person may attempt to better themselves. I am both highly educated and a strong proponent of firearm ownership; these are not mutually exclusive, and to paint all those "pursuing higher education" as anti-gun is just as cliche as her anti-gun arguments. Don't sink to their level, you know you're right, though hopefully you'll never have to prove it.

I did not attack higher education, at all. I appreciate higher education, very much; I'm the first college graduate in my family, and my firstborn is currently a junior at a "Kudzu League" (Southern Ivy League) school that consistently ranks among the very top of private liberal arts colleges.

There is a high degree of correlation between immersion in traditional higher education, especially at the graduate level, and anti-gun PC stereotypes. Acknowledging this is not an attack against higher education as a means for career advancement.

 

[mremski]

When I get asked that question, I simply say, "Because, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away." Then I walk away and let them ponder the simplicity of the statement.

I'll typically say something like:
Statistically the attacks happen within 21 feet. A .45ACP at a nominal 835fps covers 21 feet in about 25 milliseconds. Average time to speed dial and get connected via 911 is say 10 seconds. Police response time is typically 5 to 10 minutes. Even a person with slow reaction time will have the situation resolved in less time than it takes to get connected to 911.

 

[jelildude]

Why?

In this age of information there is simply NO way that a rational person cannot know that there are psycopaths in our midst. There is also NO way that a person cannot find out that they can arm themselves to act in their self defense.

All of that leads me to conclude that they willfully assume victim status. Therefore they are not worth me risking prison time or death to do for them what they themselves refuse to do.

F them all.

This.
Also, they (being for the most part statists and proponents of government monopoly-of-force) argue endlessly and without logic for disarmament of American citizens. They would see us all denied our right to self-defense, based on their choice of surrendering theirs. This is what these types of people do....they decide they don't like or want "X" and therefore YOU shouldn't be allowed "X" either, because they are smarter than you. No sheep-dogging here... my guns are for the defense of myself, family and friends. Would I act in the defense of a woman or child who was being attacked....yes, but I wouldn't look for opportunities to rescue the self-imposed defenseless.

Why do I carry a gun? Because every creature has a natural right to self defense. Anyone who would argue against that fact is an enemy of humanity, and an enabler of any crime or atrocity where a firearm would've made a difference.

 

[rlee]

I tend to avoid this type of conversation/debate. But I have a simple answer that I've used once: I have guns for 3 reasons: (1) self-protection, (2) I enjoy shooting, and (3) none of your damn business.
That third answer was a conversation-stopper.

 

[pastera]

Why?

In this age of information there is simply NO way that a rational person cannot know that there are psycopaths in our midst. There is also NO way that a person cannot find out that they can arm themselves to act in their self defense.

All of that leads me to conclude that they willfully assume victim status. Therefore they are not worth me risking prison time or death to do for them what they themselves refuse to do.

F them all.

What if there is a child involved? Are they doomed because they are physically and legally unable to provide for their defense due to a$$hat parents?

 

[Deleted member 12999]

What if there is a child involved? Are they doomed because they are physically and legally unable to provide for their defense due to a$$hat parents?

You didn't just drop 'Its for the children' as a legit point... NES is going to implode.

 

[Terminator03]

Why?

In this age of information there is simply NO way that a rational person cannot know that there are psycopaths in our midst. There is also NO way that a person cannot find out that they can arm themselves to act in their self defense.

All of that leads me to conclude that they willfully assume victim status. Therefore they are not worth me risking prison time or death to do for them what they themselves refuse to do.

F them all.

It sounds very cold and self-centered, but I have to agree with Jose on this one. There would be exceptions of course, but for the most part, I would not draw my gun to get involved in a situation that wasn't directly involving my safety, or that of my family. This God forsaken state is just too f**ked up in the way that this stuff is handled, so it is simply not worth it to me to bring down my whole family financially for defending something like that, or face rotting in prison. I'm not saying that I would look the other way, and do nothing, just that I wouldn't shoot anyone over something that wasn't my business that's all.

 

[Terminator03]

I did not attack higher education, at all. I appreciate higher education, very much; I'm the first college graduate in my family, and my firstborn is currently a junior at a "Kudzu League" (Southern Ivy League) school that consistently ranks among the very top of private liberal arts colleges.

There is a high degree of correlation between immersion in traditional higher education, especially at the graduate level, and anti-gun PC stereotypes. Acknowledging this is not an attack against higher education as a means for career advancement.

I agree completely, and I'm also a college grad. What I see and hear from one of my older boys who recently graduated from UMASS/Amherst is that there is a lot of anti-gun sentiment being taught in various classes, as well as just a general belief in a highly liberal school like UMASS that guns are icky, bad, and only rednecks and bad guys have them. Some of the crap I have heard just makes my head spin.

 

[MAGG]

Eddie just wanted to thank you for posting your conversation with that guy...nothing like making me spit out my oatmeal haha

 

[TomH]

I don't discuss firearms with others, unless they're of similar mindset.

 

[n1bsbri]

I don't discuss firearms with others, unless they're of similar mindset.

Even then you can never be too sure.

 

[Jose]

What if there is a child involved? Are they doomed because they are physically and legally unable to provide for their defense due to a$$hat parents?

I answered your question in the very post you quoted.

 

[Jose]

Would I act in the defense of a woman or child who was being attacked....yes

Child yes. Adult woman, NO.

Women have even more reason than men to be armed and ready to provide for their own defense. The fact that so many refuse to do so in NO WAY obligates me to place my freedom and my family's future in jeopardy.

Then add to that that, as a rule, a higher percentage of women are antis than men, and it's a no brainer why I say to them: how's that unarmed thing working out for you?

I ain't no sheepdog. In fact, sheepdogging is for fools.

God, Family, Self, Tribe in that order. All others are SOL.

 

[massduster]

I posted this before, but I once had a similar conversation in a bar with a friend of a friend. He's 'dramatic', loud, and flamboyant, and a total libtard. Over the previous few years, I'd probably been out in a group with this guy about a half dozen times.

The subject of guns came up one night around the time that those high school kids broke into that house in rural NH and killed the Mom and stabbed the daughter. I said something like "Too bad they weren't armed". Here's how the conversation went (as close as I can remember):

HIM: People shouldn't be allowed to walk around carrying guns.
ME: Why not?
HIM: Because it would be a bloodbath!
ME: I bet there are people in this room that are carrying guns (we were in Portsmouth, NH).
HIM: I doubt that.
ME: Yeah? I'm carrying a gun right now. You're sitting five feet away from it, and nobody is bleeding.
HIM: You carry a gun?
ME: All the time. Every time you've seen me I've had a gun with me.
HIM: Why do you think you need a gun?
ME: We were just talking about it. Say you were at home with your boyfriend and some lunatic broke in and...
HIM: I'm not gay.
ME: ...Get the f--k out of here...
HIM: I'm married and have two kids.
ME: Dude. Sorry.

 

[45collector]

Sounds like the kinda girl I'd like to hate-f**k and then never call again.