Building up a service rifle

[PatMcD]

I also would think of giving Rock River a call. Out at Camp Perry, they had complete SR uppers for $600. I should have grabbed one.

I think the barrel you have already bought could be sold fairly easily. If not, like Brian said, make do with what you've got. The important thing is to have decent ammo, fairly decent equipment, a desire to learn/improve, and get out there and shoot.

 

[colt_fan]

Thanks for everyone's input, I ended up buying Derek's WOA upper today. I am waiting for the Geiselle trigger to come in to finish up the lower. Hopefully I'll be seeing that in the mailbox this Saturday! Now I need to get a shooting jacket and the lead weight for the butt stock.

 

[M1911]

Now I need to get a shooting jacket and the lead weight for the butt stock.

I put a lead weight in my buttstock. It was a royal pain to get in (oversized and took a lot of trimming). Then, when I felt it was too heavy, I literally couldn't get it out. I ended up replacing the buttstock, and then just using a couple rolls of coins. YMMV.

 

[colt_fan]

I put a lead weight in my buttstock. It was a royal pain to get in (oversized and took a lot of trimming). Then, when I felt it was too heavy, I literally couldn't get it out. I ended up replacing the buttstock, and then just using a couple rolls of coins. YMMV.

How heavy are your rifles with the added weight?

 

[M1911]

How heavy are your rifles with the added weight?

Dunno. I don't shoot service rifle anymore. The rifle itself was 12 lbs 12 oz before adding weight to the buttstock.

 

[colt_fan]

What coins and how many rolls did you use? I might make a mold and cast my own weight.

 

[Jasper]

What coins and how many rolls did you use? I might make a mold and cast my own weight.

more difficult than it's worth.

i have a lead wedge in my service rifle (compass lake)...the wedge is about 3.5lbs (guess?). total weight of the rifle (after wedge, with heavy barrel and freefloat tube) is 13.2lbs. balances VERY nicely right at the magwell (although i'm in the same boat with not being able to get the wedge out now...if i want to dial down the weight a bit (which i have been), i use a 1/2" drill bit, and simply remove a bit of lead that way.


IIRC the wedge is only ~ $20...and available from creedmoor.

if you're serious about shooting service rifle, practice is KEY! i actually got a dedicated .22 upper for my rifle, but the conversions arent bad at all at shorter distances.

these were shot @ 50ft, sitting/unslung. (dialing in the windage)

as for the coat, spend once, cry once. the Creedmoor hardback coats are the cream of the crop, and WELL worth the money

 

[colt_fan]

more difficult than it's worth.
if you're serious about shooting service rifle, practice is KEY! i actually got a dedicated .22 upper for my rifle, but the conversions arent bad at all at shorter distances.

Isn't the twist rate too high for 22s?

 

[Jasper]

Isn't the twist rate too high for 22s?

1:7 and 1:8 isnt ideal... 1:9 is tolerable, 1:12 is pretty good. the setup ive got is 1:16, and it's a shooter.


my buddy has a colt HBAR match, with the 1:7 barrel, and factory Colt .22 conversion bolt. he's gotten some VERY acceptable groups out of his rifle with standard velocity remington target grade ammo.

at 50ft (our indoor range), it's PLENTY accurate for practice.

 

[bpm990d]

You can get lead flashing at the Depot. You can trim it and roll it up and stuff it in there. I used a sponge behind it to keep it from moving.

B

 

[colt_fan]

1:7 and 1:8 isnt ideal... 1:9 is tolerable, 1:12 is pretty good. the setup ive got is 1:16, and it's a shooter.


my buddy has a colt HBAR match, with the 1:7 barrel, and factory Colt .22 conversion bolt. he's gotten some VERY acceptable groups out of his rifle with standard velocity remington target grade ammo.

at 50ft (our indoor range), it's PLENTY accurate for practice.

Is it a flat top or A2? I have a tacticool M4 version, but don't see much use for using it to practice shooting because of it's set up. Shooting is not always the same as shooting...

 

[Jasper]

his is an old (preban+) A2.

only downside to shooting an M16A2 variant in matches and an M4 variant in practice is simply the fact that it isnt the same rifle, and wont feel the same, have the same sight radius, same weight, trigger, etc.

 

[M1911]

What coins and how many rolls did you use? I might make a mold and cast my own weight.

I just use a couple rolls of pennies, IIRC. But my rifle is already heavy and weight is a matter of taste.

 

[PatMcD]

Lead shot or bullets are other alternatives to the wedge. I've got the wedge in one and a bunch of .38 cal lead bullets in another. Weight is pretty close.

 

[Franco]

im also looking to get a service rifle, i was wondering if i should just get a pre-ban colt hbar and add a trigger & FF tube under the handguard or get and actually upper built up from white oak or CLE? and put it on an lower that has a nice trigger.

also any different in performance with or with out a flash hider/muzzle brake for cmp?

 

[bpm990d]

The Colt will have a NATO chamber. You are better off with something with a shorter throat.

No difference in accuracy/performance with or without the flash hider.

B

 

[Jasper]

you cant go wrong with either.

i got my CLE used (hence why i got it).

if i hadnt, i would have bought from WhiteOak (partly because they are linked through NES, and partly because their prices are excellent). they also offer a 1:7 twist on their barrels, which is nice to have if you want to shoot the REALLY heavy bullets available for .223 (90gr+) for 800-1000yd prone matches.


as for muzzle brake / flash hider:

a FH wont add anything to the rifle performance wise. neither will a muzzle brake realistically, but muzzle brakes are verboten in NRA highpower and CMP.

 

[Franco]

so another question along the lines of post #46!,..say if i get an colt hbar in a 5.56 chambered barrel for cmp? will it still shoot .223 accurately and effectively for this particular discipline. or is this not recommmended

i know the throat lengths or is it the shoulder angle that is slightly different etc. or should i stick with a .223 chamber or even a wylde chamber so i can shoot both with out ill effects.

hey Jasper thanks for the input, and hows your gf liking that p22, did she out grow it yet?

 

[bpm990d]

The problem with the 5.56mm NATO chamber is that the bullets jump a lot to get to the rifling and the diameter of the freebore is oversize (.2265 ~ .227 inches) and doesn't do a particularly good job supporting the bullet as it heads into the throat. All of the match chambers have throat diameters right at nominal bullet size (.224). Throat length is not a big a deal if you have a well supported bullet, but the 5.56mm NATO is long and large. Check out the Detailed 223 vs. 5.56 reamer dimensions comparison.pdf on AR15barrels.com

With 80 gr. bullets for the 600 yard stage, you really need to seat them out quite a ways to get close (within .020) to the rifling. The problem is that you start to run out of case neck to support the bullet after a thousand rounds or so.

Up close where you shoot magazine length ammo, the bullets really jump a lot and that is not the best for accuracy. You can shoot HM scores with a GI barrel, but the thing is going to wear out and accuracy will fall apart prematurely, well before the bore goes to hell.

Don't waste your time shooting ball out of a CMP gun.

B

 

[Franco]

thanks for the enlightenment! i stumbled across a site awhile ago that explained the .223 vs.556 thing just as you did, thanks.

but whats the advantages of having a wylde chamber? on a built upper, is this ideal to have? or should it be the shortest throat available.

 

[bpm990d]

thanks for the enlightenment! i stumbled across a site awhile ago that explained the .223 vs.556 thing just as you did, thanks.

but whats the advantages of having a wylde chamber? on a built upper, is this ideal to have? or should it be the shortest throat available.

It's six of one and half dozen for the other. The Wylde will let you seat the bullets you use for 600 yards out further. That equals more case capacity for more powder. It's also known for functioning in a semi auto. Some tight chambers (not talking about the throat) might balk at functioning in an AR. Much better suited for a bolt gun.

I believe that CLE has very short throats. Less capacity, but more metal in the throat to wear out. It probably wont matter anyways, after a few hundred rounds the throat will not be what was in the gun when you first got it. Either chamber or even a NATO chamber could clean the course with the right ammo. Although the brass life in a NATO chamber is going to be less than with something that is a little tighter in the ass end (the C dimension on the chart at AR15barrels.com).

B