• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

Brother wants to enlist Army after HS

WTF are you talking about? Of course it does.

Only time spent on Title 10 (not for training) counts toward Veteran time under the Federal defination.

There are many different definitions of Veteran. In Mass to get it on your license you only need a DD 214 with an honorable discharge. You only get a 214 upon discharge from the Active Duty. If you are on Active Duty and have been continuously for 10, 20 or more years, you do not have a 214 and can't get Veteran put on your Mass license.

Don't confuse this with what you need for qualifications to get a discount on Veteran's day.

Federally after being a member of the National Guard or Reserve for 20 years you can be called a Veteran but, are not eligible to receive any Federal Veteran benefits, unless you otherwise qualify.
 
Last edited:
Huh.

In my view, DD 214 = veteran. You do get a 214 when you get discharged from the Guard (at least I did). Granted, they only count your UTA time (as they should), but it's still service. So you're still a veteran.

My final 214, totaling up all my AD time plus my NG UTA time, didn't make a distinction in those little tables on the upper right.
 
DD 214 is discharge from active duty.

NG 22 is discharge from National Guard.

If you were in the Guard, you will have both sometimes multiple DD 214s due to multiple active duty (Title 10) tours.
 
Um, what does he actually want to DO in the Army? Any advice anyone gives him is useless if it doesn't jive with what he wants to do.

Your advice about ROTC and college is cool and all, but if he already is in JROTC, he has more than a clue about what officers do vs what enlisted guys do. So if he doesn't want to be an officer, it's probably not useful to advise him to become one. Even if your heart's in the right place.

Plenty of us have plenty of advice, but knowing what he's thinking will help us give it.

Actually not so much. JROTC is more about citizenship and basic military skills and discipline.

The better option would be to try to get a ROTC scholarship and go to college. A degree and guaranteed job after college.

If he enlists after high school he will go in as E3 if he completes the JROTC course.

He needs to talk to his JROTC instructor about all of the options.

If you have never been in, you are probably in no real position to advise him, and since the Army is constantly reinventing itself it might be best to have him talk to some one with recent experience in real time. Do you have any friends with recent experience?

Ultimately he is going to do what he is going to do and you aren't going to deter him.

The basic pay for an E3 1886.00 per month. But consider that you are getting free food, housing and free medical care, 30 days paid leave, the benefits are good. I had far more disposable income as a lower ranking enlisted soldier than I ever had as an officer.

Then too, free training and some of the training really is the best in the world.
 
Take him to a local VA hospital and/or have him read how the vets are getting screwed with poor health care. 22 Vets per day commit suicide because of what they have been through in the last dozen + years. Chances are pretty high that he will see combat with all the "actions" we have going on around the world and the state of things globally will likely lead to more "actions" in the next decade.

Even in today's non linear threat environment, most troops are in combat support and combat service support and while many are deployed to combat theaters, most will not experience actual contact with the enemy. Remember too, that everyone is trained. In actuality only a small percentage of troops are killed or wounded in action and the odds decrease in Combat Support and Service Support MOS's which comprise the majority of the Army.

Being a soldier implies risk and a willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice. You seem to think that it is inevitable that the United States will be drawn into reckless military adventurism rife with wholesale slaughter. This may or may not be true. The rise of Chinese power projection especially in Africa, Russia wanting to broaden its sphere of influence over Eastern Europe and of course the insanity of North Korea.

The diminishing natural resources, burgeoning populations, greater disparity between haves and have nots are going to bring about pressures and conflicts that are difficult to predict. One would hope that there are any number of young men and women who are willing to step to the plate to engage in conflicts not of our own making or doing. Don't fall into the trap of evaluating the next two decades by the last two. The realpolitik is changing.
 
Actually not so much. JROTC is more about citizenship and basic military skills and discipline.

The better option would be to try to get a ROTC scholarship and go to college. A degree and guaranteed job after college.

If he enlists after high school he will go in as E3 if he completes the JROTC course.

He needs to talk to his JROTC instructor about all of the options.

If you have never been in, you are probably in no real position to advise him, and since the Army is constantly reinventing itself it might be best to have him talk to some one with recent experience in real time. Do you have any friends with recent experience?

Ultimately he is going to do what he is going to do and you aren't going to deter him.

The basic pay for an E3 1886.00 per month. But consider that you are getting free food, housing and free medical care, 30 days paid leave, the benefits are good. I had far more disposable income as a lower ranking enlisted soldier than I ever had as an officer.

Then too, free training and some of the training really is the best in the world.

Tomato, tomahto... different JROTC instructors run things in different ways. Mine did a good job differentiating between officer life and enlisted life, always couching it in terms of what they were telling the cadets about their options. I didn't care for my instructors, still less about my JROTC unit (it was USAF, which I wasn't into), but they told the truth about what JROTC could and could not do for them ITO ROTC scholarship possibilities vs enlistment possibilities, and not just in the Air Force.

In the event, I did both. JROTC gave me a leg up on ROTC, while simultaneously getting me rank in the Guard. I double-dipped all through college, even triple-dipping once my GI Bill eligibility came through.

Hence, my point: the son has already got plans. Unless we know them, our advice is meaningless. Speaking from experience, his parents' views are unlikely to stop him either. You're absolutely right about that, and as usual the rest of your advice is spot-on.
 
Your brother should make his decision based off what his desires are. There is a lot of "good advice" here, that is actually shit advice if it isn't what he is looking to get out of his service.

There are pretty much 3 factors he should be considering, Branch (USMC, USA, USAF, USN, USCG), Component (Active, Reserve, or Guard), and MOS or job.

A realistic evaluation of his position and what he wants out of it should be the primary guiding factor here. If his concern is getting his education covered, there are 3 good paths to this. 1. The national guard in the state he wants to go to school in. If he joins the MA guard, he goes to UMass for free. UMass is a great school. 2, he could do ROTC with a full scholarship, but those are not a given, and are competitive. 3rd, he does 4 years active duty and he has the post 9/11 GI bill. The downside here is this, if he wants to be in the USMCR or Navy Reserve, he'll have virtually no meaningful college benefits until AFTER he deploys, and right now those are far from guaranteed.

If he just wants an adventure for at least the next few years, I think he will get the most satisfaction out of doing an active duty stint. I was lucky in that I joined the USMCR and got deployed 2 years after joining my unit. I got my "adventure," and college benefits when I came home. I did 7 "satisfactory" years towards a retirement over about 6.5 actual years in the reserves when I got out. It's been a couple years, I miss it, and I'm now working on joining the army guard.

If he wants an adventure, granted I'm biased, I would say go Marine Corps or Navy. Both branches have incredible bases and incredible travel opportunities (depending on the job). The army has some bases in nice locations, but most are in crappy locations. The air force has nice quality bases, but also largely in shitty places.

Having not stepped foot into the army yet, but being decently well acquainted with it, and as a former Marine, I can say the Marine Corps is absolutely the most cultish fraternal branch. It's small, the traditions die hard, and there is a degree of self selection among members. This is not to say the USMC is better than other branches, though I do think they do some things better than other branches, but nobody will dispute its a cult. Now on the USMC front, I'd only go that route for combat arms jobs. The farther you get from the infantry int he Marine Corps, the more "stupidity" you see as far as the idiosyncracies of a garrison military environment are concerned. For a technical job or skillset, I'd stick with the Navy (for travel and location), or air force (for comfort and family-friendliness). Army and Marine Corps all the way for combat arms stuff, and Army is the only branch that has a pathway for a highschool grad to be a pilot, if that's what he wants.

On the VA/veterans treatment front, a VA hospital is not a petting zoo, and I wouldn't take him by there to give him a realistic outlook on what veterans face. Some veterans are ****ed up from their service, most are just fine. Here's what I face as a veteran, preference in a ton of jobs and grad school applications, outstanding leadership experience, and a virtually free ride through graduate school. The VA healthcare system in MA is excellent. I have nothing but good things to say about the hospital in JP. The ADMINISTRATIVE leg of the VA is a shit-show, but I've had doctors give me their direct emails, nurses give me contact info of nurses in departments I needed to schedule stuff with, etc. That said, the VA healthcare network varies a lot hospital to hospital. I had friends out in AZ, and it was every bit as bad as it is rumored to be. The lifelong and financial benefits from service are unmatched in my opinion, even with the "bad."

Mike
 
Last edited:
Your brother should make his decision based off what his desires are. There is a lot of "good advice" here, that is actually shit advice if it isn't what he is looking to get out of his service.

There are pretty much 3 factors he should be considering, Branch (USMC, USA, USAF, USN, USCG), Component (Active, Reserve, or Guard), and MOS or job.

A realistic evaluation of his position and what he wants out of it should be the primary guiding factor here. If his concern is getting his education covered, there are 3 good paths to this. 1. The national guard in the state he wants to go to school in. If he joins the MA guard, he goes to UMass for free. UMass is a great school. 2, he could do ROTC with a full scholarship, but those are not a given, and are competitive. 3rd, he does 4 years active duty and he has the post 9/11 GI bill. The downside here is this, if he wants to be in the USMCR or Navy Reserve, he'll have virtually no meaningful college benefits until AFTER he deploys, and right now those are far from guaranteed.

If he just wants an adventure for at least the next few years, I think he will get the most satisfaction out of doing an active duty stint. I was lucky in that I joined the USMCR and got deployed 2 years after joining my unit. I got my "adventure," and college benefits when I came home. I did 7 "satisfactory" years towards a retirement over about 6.5 actual years in the reserves when I got out. It's been a couple years, I miss it, and I'm now working on joining the army guard.

If he wants an adventure, granted I'm biased, I would say go Marine Corps or Navy. Both branches have incredible bases and incredible travel opportunities (depending on the job). The army has some bases in nice locations, but most are in crappy locations. The air force has nice quality bases, but also largely in shitty places.

Having not stepped foot into the army yet, but being decently well acquainted with it, and as a former Marine, I can say the Marine Corps is absolutely the most cultish fraternal branch. It's small, the traditions die hard, and there is a degree of self selection among members. This is not to say the USMC is better than other branches, though I do think they do some things better than other branches, but nobody will dispute its a cult. Now on the USMC front, I'd only go that route for combat arms jobs. The farther you get from the infantry int he Marine Corps, the more "stupidity" you see as far as the idiosyncracies of a garrison military environment are concerned. For a technical job or skillset, I'd stick with the Navy (for travel and location), or air force (for comfort and family-friendliness). Army and Marine Corps all the way for combat arms stuff, and Army is the only branch that has a pathway for a highschool grad to be a pilot, if that's what he wants.

On the VA/veterans treatment front, a VA hospital is not a petting zoo, and I wouldn't take him by there to give him a realistic outlook on what veterans face. Some veterans are ****ed up from their service, most are just fine. Here's what I face as a veteran, preference in a ton of jobs and grad school applications, outstanding leadership experience, and a virtually free ride through graduate school. The VA healthcare system in MA is excellent. I have nothing but good things to say about the hospital in JP. The ADMINISTRATIVE leg of the VA is a shit-show, but I've had doctors give me their direct emails, nurses give me contact info of nurses in departments I needed to schedule stuff with, etc. That said, the VA healthcare network varies a lot hospital to hospital. I had friends out in AZ, and it was every bit as bad as it is rumored to be. The lifelong and financial benefits from service are unmatched in my opinion, even with the "bad."

Mike

I read through this thread composing my answer, but you said it all. Semper Fi.
 
Always more that can be said. Most important question in deciding how best to serve is always the "why." If the kid wants to be a Marine Infantryman, being an airforce jet mechanic may be a cozy life setting him up for success, but he wont be happy. The opposite can be just as true. Motivation is everything.

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
 
The VA healthcare system in MA is excellent. I have nothing but good things to say about the hospital in JP. The ADMINISTRATIVE leg of the VA is a shit-show, but I've had doctors give me their direct emails, nurses give me contact info of nurses in departments I needed to schedule stuff with, etc. That said, the VA healthcare network varies a lot hospital to hospital.

Your whole post is well stated Mike. While I use the VA on a limited basis, I have nothing but good things to say about the local clinic in Hyannis and the VA Hospital in Providence. I hear a lot of bitching from other vets but have not had a bad experience yet. I do have a couple friends in the Tampa area of Florida, who do carp about their treatment and have read horror stories about the VA debacle in AZ. I think we're lucky here in the northeast.
 
Ask the recruiter to take the aptitude test and see what jobs he would be best at. The Army did a good job with pin pointing your skills back in 60's, probably better now. People are usually happy when skills meet the requirements of the job. And might be a few jobs you hadn't thought of that match your skills.
 
Actually WTF are you talking about. You might want to read up on this a bit

You're late. We figured this out about 10 posts ago.

Your AD time on the DD 214 you get when you finish your service, Guard or active, all counts.
 
But for guard/reserve, there is a whole other point based retirement system.

The current aptitude test is required for service, it is known as the ASVAB. Usually a paper version is offered in high school. If he has the opportunity, this may be a better setting to take the test for the best possible scores/grade. As an aptitude test, it will tell you where you are strongest, but it also has the ability to limit your career. Like anything he does with the military, he should prepare for it as best as possible and put the most effort into it to do as well as possible. The ASVAB, in some respects, has the ability to follow you if you don't do well but later decide to change MOS fields.

Mike
 
Sit him down in front of a 4 hour power point slide explaining why you shouldnt diddle your battle buddies in the shower. If he enjoys it, then the army is for him.

Make him complete an 8 hour online course about not committing suicide after he spends 3 hours trying to figure out how to log on to AKO. If he commits suicide during this process, then the army is not for him.
 
Have him read ALL OF THESE. This is what military life is like in a nut-shell. I shit you not, they cover everything you need to know about being an infantryman:
http://terminallance.com/2015/06/30/terminal-lance-386-the-birth-of-a-safety-brief/

No shit there was briefly a photo that went around before the poster pulled it down (probably so a bunch of people wouldn't get burned) of a naked Marine mid-air, holding a beer, jumping off the second floor balcony into an inflatable pool. I wish I could find it, it was amazing.

Mike
 
Sit him down in front of a 4 hour power point slide explaining why you shouldnt diddle your battle buddies in the shower. If he enjoys it, then the army is for him.

Make him complete an 8 hour online course about not committing suicide after he spends 3 hours trying to figure out how to log on to AKO. If he commits suicide during this process, then the army is not for him.

Very true, actually.

An annual Christmastime set of 350-1 briefings would be a good habit to get into as well.
 
Sit him down in front of a 4 hour power point slide explaining why you shouldnt diddle your battle buddies in the shower. If he enjoys it, then the army is for him.

Make him complete an 8 hour online course about not committing suicide after he spends 3 hours trying to figure out how to log on to AKO. If he commits suicide during this process, then the army is not for him.
Spoken like a true survivor of mandatory training.


Sent from my C6530 using Tapatalk
 
Ha, I just saw a screenshot on my friends facebook along those lines. Anything the military can do to add more powerpoints.

HegFcXi.jpg


Hope we didn't drag this too far off track

Mike
 
Ha, I just saw a screenshot on my friends facebook along those lines. Anything the military can do to add more powerpoints.

HegFcXi.jpg


Hope we didn't drag this too far off track

Mike
lol I interned as a contractor at Hanscom AFB and every week there was another slide show for us to view, I can imagine that's only a fraction of what you guys see.
 
Not for everyone though... I opted to go into the reserves first (where I was deployed), I'm doing just fine in grad school about 10 years after first enlisting. I don't think I would have done well going straight into college, my head just wasn't in the game.

Mike
 
Last edited:
Not for everyone though... I opted to go into the reserves first (where I was deployed), I'm doing just fine in grad school about 10 years after first enlisting. I don't think I would have done well going straight into college, my head just wasn't in the game.

Mike
I probably should have enlisted. There was a period of four years that are pretty much just wasted time dealing with bad relationships and no motivation to finish my degree until two years ago.
At least if I had signed up I'd have something to show other than a long resume in retail.
 
I was gonna say... it's never too late. You learn so much about yourself, over and above the "job training" aspect.
 
Back
Top Bottom