Bringing a Black powder rifle into Mass.

[wjsmall97]

I live in N.H. and work in Mass., and was wondering if I could bring in a CVA Accura MR-X black powder rifle
into Mass. so that I can take it to get a value on it. I will be taking it the KTP, and want to shoot up after work instead of heading home first.
Bill

 

[qwik88]

You will be fine

 

[nstassel]

You will be fine

I'm interested in why you'd say that? He'll be fine if he's not caught? He'll be fine because it's legal?

The rifle isn't the issue. The powder and possibly the projectiles are the issue since they're ammo that require an fid or ltc.

 

[whacko]

I'm interested in why you'd say that? He'll be fine if he's not caught? He'll be fine because it's legal?

The rifle isn't the issue. The powder and possibly the projectiles are the issue dice they're ammo that require an fid or ltc.

Its my understanding that Those black powder components require a license to purchase not to posess. Plenty of hunters that can't get a ltc or fid due to less than stellar legal history hunt legally with muzzle loaders in mass every year. There is a reason that a 50 cal BP rifle is called a "felon pole".


From the GOAL website

"Even though a person does not need any license to purchase or possess a primitive arm, one must show proof of majority (over 18) for purchase or possession. There are no reporting requirements for antique firearms either at the federal level (Form 4473) or at the state level (F/A-10). Because of conflicts in state law, however, a Massachusetts dealer will ask for a license or card in order for you to purchase ammunition for the primitive arm."

Due to the conflict in state law You just have to buy your BP supplies in another state, buy online, or have someone buy it for you.



Additionally the op is taking it to ktp to get a value....never even said he was going to bring components......so there's that.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Preferred method of travel with a black powder rifle is by horseback,..

 

[wjsmall97]

No components, just rifle

 

[whacko]

No components, just rifle

Then you'll definitely be fine.

 

[gerrycaruso]

The gun laws in Ma are so convoluted that it's often difficult to decipher the meaning but it's my understanding that the gun is OK. It's the components that are not. I guess it comes down to what the cop believes if you get stopped for any reason.

 

[Mark from MA]

For now:

Muzzleloading rifles (themselves only, no powder or projectiles) are not considered firearms in the state of MA. You can buy, sell, transport and store them anyway you want without any license.

People put them in a gun safe....why take up the room? I've seen people put fxcking trigger locks on them, I've seen them in a safe with trigger locks on them..........for christ sake please stop being retarded.

They are not firearms. You can buy them online, out of state, etc there is no paperwork in MA or federally to follow.

But.....cops are stupid in MA.....people are stupid in MA......

On a domestic have the jackboots been known to take possession of them and treat them as firearms....absolutely.

Police don't know shit about gun laws. But if you throw it in a case and keep it out of sight for your trip your likely good to go.

 

[wjsmall97]

Thanks everyone, that was my thoughts, but I have been out of Mass. for a while (except for work) for a long time
any don't always keep up with their current laws.
Bill

 

[mousegunguy]

For now:

Muzzleloading rifles (themselves only, no powder or projectiles) are not considered firearms in the state of MA. You can buy, sell, transport and store them anyway you want without any license.

People put them in a gun safe....why take up the room? I've seen people put fxcking trigger locks on them, I've seen them in a safe with trigger locks on them..........for christ sake please stop being retarded.

They are not firearms. You can buy them online, out of state, etc there is no paperwork in MA or federally to follow.

But.....cops are stupid in MA.....people are stupid in MA......

On a domestic have the jackboots been known to take possession of them and treat them as firearms....absolutely.

Police don't know shit about gun laws. But if you throw it in a case and keep it out of sight for your trip your likely good to go.

Not any way you want.
Muzzleloaders can not be transported loaded in Massachusetts.

 

[Broc]

Why do you want to bring it to MA to get a value?

It is a modern muzzleloader, you can find it online. 30 seconds and I see they are valued between $540 and $630 (first website I looked at). I don't know what model you have, but if it is in good shape, I would value it at $100-150 cheaper than new. If it isn't produced anymore, search online for the specific model and value it accordingly.

Sounds like you are spending too much time thinking about this.

 

[Palladin]

I'm interested in why you'd say that? He'll be fine if he's not caught? He'll be fine because it's legal?

The rifle isn't the issue. The powder and possibly the projectiles are the issue dice they're ammo that require an fid or ltc.

THIS

 

[wjsmall97]

I would be bringing it to work in Mass. , then going to the KTP in Maine, for a value then go from there. Easier to go straight up 495/95, than to go home and pick it up then go to Maine.
I usually get stuck doing something when I get home, so going straight from work saves time.
Also a good reason to stop in there.

 

[whacko]

Not any way you want.
Muzzleloaders can not be transported loaded in Massachusetts.

Just have to remove the primer and it's considered unloaded.

 

[MAGA99]

Don’t ask, don’t tell.

 

[mousegunguy]

Just have to remove the primer and it's considered unloaded.

Yup.
No powder in the pan, or no percussion cap on the cone, or no powder & projectile.
Any of those are considered unloaded.

 

[DW357]

Why do you want to bring it to MA to get a value?

It is a modern muzzleloader, you can find it online. 30 seconds and I see they are valued between $540 and $630 (first website I looked at). I don't know what model you have, but if it is in good shape, I would value it at $100-150 cheaper than new. If it isn't produced anymore, search online for the specific model and value it accordingly.

Sounds like you are spending too much time thinking about this.

View attachment 769001

View attachment 769002

This.

It’s not some ultra rare high end rifle

 

[MisterHappy]

I'm interested in why you'd say that? He'll be fine if he's not caught? He'll be fine because it's legal?

The rifle isn't the issue. The powder and possibly the projectiles are the issue since they're ammo that require an fid or ltc.

Can you provide a cite for this? AFAIK, you need a LTC/FID for purchase, but not for possession, of BP and cap and ball, in DPRM (209 primers for in-lines excepted).

If I'm wrong, I need to know, so I don't give wrong info

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Just don't have ammo (if you have no MA license).

In MA a muzzleloader is not a firearm. You can mail order them right to your house, no license, dealer, etc. is required. However, possession of ammunition or ammunition components requires a license. So that would be your bullets, powder, caps, etc.

 

[Woodsloafer]

(that is all I have to say).

 

[nstassel]

Can you provide a cite for this? AFAIK, you need a LTC/FID for purchase, but not for possession, of BP and cap and ball, in DPRM (209 primers for in-lines excepted).

If I'm wrong, I need to know, so I don't give wrong info

Ok... this is a complicated question. I actually was thinking about explaining this in detail.

The definition of ammunition is in ch 140 s 121:



Ok so one should think that powder and bullets are ammunition. Possession of ammunition requires a license or fid in ch 140 s 129C.



Violating this chapter is a misdemeanor of ch 269 s 10(h):



But if it's black powder for a rifle or shotgun then the prohibition on possess doesn't apply. Right? Look at ch 140 s 129C(p):



Seems clear enough. Oops don't forget to read those two paragraphs cited:


So are all BP replicas? If all BP guns are replicas then no FID is required for powder and their bullets. I don't think anyone knows with certainty. But this is why it's assumed that only purchasing requires an fid since that is not exempt. But generally nobody reads further that the BP exemption only applies to replicas and not necessarily all BP guns.

 

[slap shot]

Why do you want to bring it to MA to get a value?

It is a modern muzzleloader, you can find it online. 30 seconds and I see they are valued between $540 and $630 (first website I looked at). I don't know what model you have, but if it is in good shape, I would value it at $100-150 cheaper than new. If it isn't produced anymore, search online for the specific model and value it accordingly.

Sounds like you are spending too much time thinking about this.

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View attachment 769002

Then subtract $200 more because KTP.

 

[MisterHappy]

Ok... this is a complicated question. I actually was thinking about explaining this in detail.

The definition of ammunition is in ch 140 s 121:

View attachment 769988

Ok so one should think that powder and bullets are ammunition. Possession of ammunition requires a license or fid in ch 140 s 129C.

View attachment 769996

Violating this chapter is a misdemeanor of ch 269 s 10(h):

View attachment 769994

But if it's black powder for a rifle or shotgunmade then the prohibition on possess doesn't apply. Right? Look at ch 140 s 129C(p):

View attachment 769989

Seems clear enough. Oops don't forget to read those two paragraphs cited:

View attachment 769998
So are all BP replicas? If all BP guns are replicas then no FID is required for powder and their bullets. I don't think anyone knows with certainty. But this is why it's assumed that only purchasing requires an fid since that is not exempt. But generally nobody reads further that the BP exemption only applies to replicas and not necessarily all BP guns.

The way we teach it in Hunter Ed., under the (possibly tacit) approval of the EPOs, is that non-fixed cartridge arms, intended for non-smokeless powder use are not "Firearms" in the broad sense of the word. Ammunition for them (powder, cap, and ball, including "modern" sabot projectiles) do not require an FID/LTC for possession. 209 Primers, as they're essentially shotshell primers, do require a permission slip. IIRC a few years ago, there was a hunting accident down on the Cape, and one of the reported charges was possession of the 209 primer(s) without a license. Interesting PM inbound.


Thanks for the reply.

 

[AFAR/PFAR]

The gun laws in Ma are so convoluted that it's often difficult to decipher the meaning but it's my understanding that the gun is OK. It's the components that are not. I guess it comes down to what the cop believes if you get stopped for any reason.

Best answer is just never go into Mass.

Once my parents are gone, I won't.

 

[Mark from MA]

Not any way you want.
Muzzleloaders can not be transported loaded in Massachusetts.

Read where I said muzzleloaders themselves only, no powder or projectiles......... A loaded muzzleloader would require powder and projectiles.

Empty muzzleloaders can be transported anyway you want.

 

[mousegunguy]

Read where I said muzzleloaders themselves only, no powder or projectiles......... A loaded muzzleloader would require powder and projectiles.

Empty muzzleloaders can be transported anyway you want.

A loaded muzzleloader would require powder, projectiles & cap (if it’s a percussion).
Relax spanky!

 

[Broc]

Then subtract $200 more because KTP.

Well, yes, they have to make a profit.

A muzzle loader, if in good shape and still in production, I would sell for at least $200 less than factory new. The buyer saves taxes and $200.

Anything less, in my opinion, is not worth it when you can get a factory new gun.

 

[Arto]

209 Primers are considered modern ammo (i.e., need an FID card if you have 'em)

 

[Mark from MA]

A loaded muzzleloader would require powder, projectiles & cap (if it’s a percussion).
Relax spanky!

An LTC is required for Powder, projectiles OR caps is my meaning.....so there is a difference.

Rifle only nothing is needed.

All I meant and its been covered ad nauseum.