Break-In Issue??

[Secesh]

I went to the range today to try out the Kimber Compact I just picked up. I put 200 rounds through it and it functioned flawlessly. I was extremely pleased.
But.... one question. When changing mags I could not release the slide by pullling it back. I've never been one to release the slide any other way then the slide release but thought I'd try it this way. Are you suppose to push the slide release down while pulling the slide back, or is it suppose to automatically release itself?

 

[Bugs100]

You should just be able to grab the slide and pull it all the way back and let it fly forward. The slide should automatically release itself then. You may not be pulling the slide back far enough.

 

[M1911]

But.... one question. When changing mags I could not release the slide by pullling it back.

Does it have a shokbuff in it? Field-strip it and look for something like this:

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_shokbuff.asp

1911s with shokbuffs will act that way -- you have to release the slide with the slide stop.

 

[RKG]

It could also be that the slide stop is binding enough so that, once released by retracting the slide (and there no longer being a magazine follower pushing up on it), it does not fall of its own accord.

Field strip the piece and verify that, with the slide off, the slide stop drops of its own accord when you manually lift and release it.

 

[Secesh]

It could also be that the slide stop is binding enough so that, once released by retracting the slide (and there no longer being a magazine follower pushing up on it), it does not fall of its own accord.

Field strip the piece and verify that, with the slide off, the slide stop drops of its own accord when you manually lift and release it.

Sorry, I don't understand this. If the slide is off, you mean put the stop back in through the frame only? Or is it something else?

I tried just pulling the slide back with both a mag and no mag. The release drops about half-way but not enough to release the slide. So I'm lost as to what the problem might be. I'd really hate to send it back for this. My luck is they'd screw something else up and it wouldn't shoot as well as it does now.

 

[RKG]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant: reinstall the slide stop without the slide and verify that it is free enough to fall of its own accord.

With the gun fully assembled and locked open, the slide stop should not drop when an empty magazine is inserted, as the follower is still pushing up on the slide stop. With a charged magazine, or no magazine, the slide stop should drop completely. It sounds to me like your slide stop is binding, perhaps because the pin is bent or because there is a burr on either the pin or the holes in the frame through which the pin passes.

BUT: any long distance, sight unseen diagnosis (including the one I just gave) is at best speculation.

 

[Secesh]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant: reinstall the slide stop without the slide and verify that it is free enough to fall of its own accord.

With the gun fully assembled and locked open, the slide stop should not drop when an empty magazine is inserted, as the follower is still pushing up on the slide stop. With a charged magazine, or no magazine, the slide stop should drop completely. It sounds to me like your slide stop is binding, perhaps because the pin is bent or because there is a burr on either the pin or the holes in the frame through which the pin passes.

BUT: any long distance, sight unseen diagnosis (including the one I just gave) is at best speculation.

OK, Thank you

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The plunger tube on the left side of the gun pushes on the slide stop with the front end and on the safety with the rear end. The friction created by this could easily prevent the slide stop from releasing on its own when the slide is retracted.

Releasing by pulling the slide is a popular technique among some LEO/defense trainers (gross motor movement, etc.), however, it is not always a reliable method on the 1911 design due specifically to this plunger tube issue. This technique works extremely well on Glocks, since the spring that is integral with the slide stop actually works to push the slide stop down unless overcome by vertical force such as the follower in an empty magazine.

The quickest way to release the slide on a 1911 (for right handed shooters) is to hit the slide stop with your let thumb when acquiring a two handed grip.

 

[Secesh]

The quickest way to release the slide on a 1911 (for right handed shooters) is to hit the slide stop with your let thumb when acquiring a two handed grip.

I'm left handed and find using the slide stop to be very simple without much thought involved. But I figured I'd try pulling & releasing the slide. For all I know some of my past 1911's could have had the same problem without me realizing it.

If it is the plunger would that require it to be replaced? I did notice that it was still pressed against the slide stop pretty good when I pulled the slide back.

 

[Secesh]

I just called Kimber. They're sending me a new recoil spring, said it may be binding up. Does that make sense?

 

[M1911]

I just called Kimber. They're sending me a new recoil spring, said it may be binding up. Does that make sense?

Not to me.

 

[RKG]

Nor me.

Try my tests (should take about 10 minutes) and tell us what you observe.

While I am not suggesting you tolerate a non-functioning slide stop because of this, the fact of the matter is that, as others have suggested, the preferred way of dropping a 1911 back into battery from a locked-back position, and after inserting a charged magazine, is by manually depressing the slide stop. The reason for this is that often people who drop the slide by pulling the slide back tend to follow the slide forward with their hands and diminish the force of the recoil spring. This leads to a failure to go fully into battery.

The one time you should drop the slide by manipulating the slide and not by pressing the slide stop is when you are dropping the slide on an empty chamber. And in this case, you should guide the slide forward and not let it slam down on an empty chamber.

 

[Secesh]

Nor me.

Try my tests (should take about 10 minutes) and tell us what you observe.

While I am not suggesting you tolerate a non-functioning slide stop because of this, the fact of the matter is that, as others have suggested, the preferred way of dropping a 1911 back into battery from a locked-back position, and after inserting a charged magazine, is by manually depressing the slide stop. The reason for this is that often people who drop the slide by pulling the slide back tend to follow the slide forward with their hands and diminish the force of the recoil spring. This leads to a failure to go fully into battery.

The one time you should drop the slide by manipulating the slide and not by pressing the slide stop is when you are dropping the slide on an empty chamber. And in this case, you should guide the slide forward and not let it slam down on an empty chamber.

I'll try this tonight and let you know. I'll also take a closer look at the slide pin and see if it's bent at all. If I put it back together without the slide the plunger should not hold the stop in place?

I also called Kimber again and mentioned that it seemed unlikely ( Thanks Guys ) that a recoil spring would fix anything. The person I talked to said I need a slide stop so he's shipping me one. I'll see what happens tonight when I take it apart.

 

[Secesh]

Nor me.

Try my tests (should take about 10 minutes) and tell us what you observe.

While I am not suggesting you tolerate a non-functioning slide stop because of this, the fact of the matter is that, as others have suggested, the preferred way of dropping a 1911 back into battery from a locked-back position, and after inserting a charged magazine, is by manually depressing the slide stop. The reason for this is that often people who drop the slide by pulling the slide back tend to follow the slide forward with their hands and diminish the force of the recoil spring. This leads to a failure to go fully into battery.

The one time you should drop the slide by manipulating the slide and not by pressing the slide stop is when you are dropping the slide on an empty chamber. And in this case, you should guide the slide forward and not let it slam down on an empty chamber.

Well I tried this. The slide release pivots around the frame ok but I'm still not sure if you mean that it should fall even if it's pressed against the plunger. That doesn't work. The release looks good. It doesn't look like it's bent at all. I guess I'll see what happens when I get the new one from Kimber. If it still doesn't work then I'll find a gunsmith to take a look.

 

[RKG]

The function of the plunger is not to keep the slide stop up (stopped position). When the pistol locks open after the last round, and after the now empty magazine has been dropped, the only thing holding the slide stop up should be the force of the slide being pressed forward by the recoil spring, which presses against the inner section of the slide stop. As soon as the slide is retracted, the slide stop should drop, allowing the slide to move forward to battery.

With the slide off and the slide stop fully inserted, and no magazine in the well, the slide stop should move freely up and down, and when you move it up with your finger and then release it, it should drop of its own accord.

If it doesn't drop of its own accord, something is wrong. I'd have to see the pistol to find out, but here's what I'd be looking for:

Oversized slide stop in or undersized frame holes.
Bent slide stop pin.
Burrs on the frame holes through which the slide stop pin passes.
Dimpling on the rear face of the slide stop (where the plunger impinges).
Burr on the slot in the frame through which the slide stop inner passes.

 

[Secesh]

The function of the plunger is not to keep the slide stop up (stopped position). When the pistol locks open after the last round, and after the now empty magazine has been dropped, the only thing holding the slide stop up should be the force of the slide being pressed forward by the recoil spring, which presses against the inner section of the slide stop. As soon as the slide is retracted, the slide stop should drop, allowing the slide to move forward to battery.

With the slide off and the slide stop fully inserted, and no magazine in the well, the slide stop should move freely up and down, and when you move it up with your finger and then release it, it should drop of its own accord.

If it doesn't drop of its own accord, something is wrong. I'd have to see the pistol to find out, but here's what I'd be looking for:

Oversized slide stop in or undersized frame holes.
Bent slide stop pin.
Burrs on the frame holes through which the slide stop pin passes.
Dimpling on the rear face of the slide stop (where the plunger impinges).
Burr on the slot in the frame through which the slide stop inner passes.

OK that helps. I'll take a closer look at the frame holes & the end of the slide lock.
Thanks Again

 

[M1911]

Secesh: The easiest thing to do might be to find a buddy at a gun club who has a working 1911. Then you can compare yours against his.

 

[Secesh]

Secesh: The easiest thing to do might be to find a buddy at a gun club who has a working 1911. Then you can compare yours against his.

Yeah, I just had it apart again. It looks as if the angle cut on the slide where the cutout is is supposed to push the release down as the slide rides over it, but mine stops just before it can get the release all the way down.

I can't explain it and I know you guys can't diagnose it more than you already have. If the new release doesn't work then I'll take it to a gunsmith and then maybe send it back. This is what I get for not having two on hand to compare against each other.

I appreciate all of the help.

 

[RKG]

Yeah, I just had it apart again. It looks as if the angle cut on the slide where the cutout is is supposed to push the release down as the slide rides over it, but mine stops just before it can get the release all the way down.

I can't explain it and I know you guys can't diagnose it more than you already have. If the new release doesn't work then I'll take it to a gunsmith and then maybe send it back. This is what I get for not having two on hand to compare against each other.

I appreciate all of the help.

I don't fully understand, but there is no function in a 1911-design where the slide is supposed to push the slide release down from an up position (such as the action of the slide in pushing the disconnector down when the slide backs out of battery). When the slide is forward, the slide release cannot move up, and when the slide is back, the slide release is free to move up.

If you are referring to the half-moon relief just aft of the slide stop notch, that is there to permit the slide stop to be removed.

Edit:

The penny just dropped: if you're referring to the forward-most profile of the slide stop notch itself (which rises at a non-vertical angle), the slide is not supposed to be able to move back far enough for that to contact the slide stop. That "angle" face has no function.

 

[Secesh]

Edit:

The penny just dropped: if you're referring to the forward-most profile of the slide stop notch itself (which rises at a non-vertical angle), the slide is not supposed to be able to move back far enough for that to contact the slide stop. That "angle" face has no function.

That helps because as I pull the slide back to release the slide the release does ride that angle cut into the slide. Sounds like the slide release isn't moving as freely as it's supposed to. I hope the new one arrives today or tomorrow.

 

[RKG]

There is one other possible issue I should have mentioned: the magazine.

1911-pattern pistol magazines have a notch in the forward side wall on the left side, which allows the lug on the slide stop access to the follower after the last round has been stripped. The notch itself must not interfere with the drop of the slide stop.

So add one more test, if the slide stop drops as it should with no magazine inserted but balks at dropping if a charged magazine is inserted:

With the slide removed, insert a magazine whose follower has been depressed. This is most easily done by loading one or more cartridges in the magazine, but use caution. (The general rule is that ammunition is never permitted on the bench while a pistol is being cleaned or worked on!) Verify that the slide stop remains down, and then if manually lifted up, it drops of its own accord. Test all of your magazines.

 

[Secesh]

There is one other possible issue I should have mentioned: the magazine.

1911-pattern pistol magazines have a notch in the forward side wall on the left side, which allows the lug on the slide stop access to the follower after the last round has been stripped. The notch itself must not interfere with the drop of the slide stop.

So add one more test, if the slide stop drops as it should with no magazine inserted but balks at dropping if a charged magazine is inserted:

With the slide removed, insert a magazine whose follower has been depressed. This is most easily done by loading one or more cartridges in the magazine, but use caution. (The general rule is that ammunition is never permitted on the bench while a pistol is being cleaned or worked on!) Verify that the slide stop remains down, and then if manually lifted up, it drops of its own accord. Test all of your magazines.

That was one thing I tested right after I noticed the problem. It behaves the same with or without a charged magazine.

 

[Secesh]

Well I received the new slide release today and it didn't change anything. I'm beginning to think it's the plunger holding it up but I'm no expert. So now I need to decide whether to send it back or let a local gunsmith take a look at it.

 

[RKG]

Well I received the new slide release today and it didn't change anything. I'm beginning to think it's the plunger holding it up but I'm no expert. So now I need to decide whether to send it back or let a local gunsmith take a look at it.

Based on your reported telcon with Kimber (in the other thread), I'm not sure sending it back will do much good.

You can test for the plunger by removing the plunger (have to strip the gun to the point of removing the safety first, then push the small plunger, spring, and large plunger out the rear of the plunger tube), reinstall the slide stop, and verify that when you lift it with your finger and release, it drops of its own accord. Now reinstall the plunger and, in same state, try the same test. If it fails to drop, there is something wrong with the rear face of the outer portion of the slide stop.

CAVEAT: this response, and my prior responses, are based on true 1911-style pistols. I have, in fact, never been face to face with a Kimber, and there may be something different in its design.

 

[Secesh]

... If it fails to drop, there is something wrong with the rear face of the outer portion of the slide stop.

Do you mean the slide release itself? Reason I'm asking is because I've already tried two of them. I'll try and strip it down. I haven't gone that far before.

 

[RKG]

Yes.

 

[Secesh]

Looks like I finally fixed this. I took the recoil spring out again and tapped the cup that the front of the spring inserts into (not sure what it's called) on a table top. A small piece of metal fell out. After I assembled everything it seemed to work just fine. I haven't had it to the range yet but the slingshot worked for my tests. Based on the size of that piece of metal the tolerances must be pretty tight.

For those that also own Kimber's, here's something to think about. The last time that I called I talked to a woman and when I explained the issue and what parts had been sent to me thus far I received the following response from her: 'It's designed to work that way' (not slingshot). That was a pretty scary statement from a company that sells a bunch of 1911's. Yes, it was the Custom Shop.

 

[Joe R.]

In her view and probably some of the people in the shop, that technique isn't what you're supposed to do with a 1911 pistol. That most of the tactical classes teach it that way may not be how JMB intended his pistol to operate. Imagine the first person that did that on a firing line back then being admonished for not using the slide stop to release the slide! Hell, you should have seen the look on the guy watching me on the combat pistol course when I had a stovepipe. He was used to people dropping the mags and racking the slide to clear it. I look up and saw it was a stovepipe and grabbed the front of the slide and " swept " out the case and was back shooting in a couple of seconds. He asked me where I learned that - I told him from " Combat Handguns " magazine!

Joe R.