Border Patrol agent shoots and wounds Mexican rock thrower at US-Mexico line.

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 9:30 PM

SAN DIEGO -- A U.S. Border Patrol agent shot and wounded a man as agents clashed with a group of rock-throwing assailants, marking the latest confrontation along a violent stretch of the U.S.-Mexico border, authorities said Wednesday.
Edgar Israel Ortega Chavez was shot Tuesday night in his left buttocks and was in stable condition, according to a spokesman for Hospital General in Tijuana who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss the matter.
Ortega, 22, was found by Mexican authorities on a dirt bank above the spot where the border crosses the dry, concrete-lined Tijuana River basin, Tijuana police said in a news release.
San Diego police said the shooter was a 10-year Border Patrol veteran but did not release his name.
The Border Patrol said the agent feared getting struck by a rock, but the shooting drew swift criticism from Mexican authorities.
"This incident is of great concern to the government of Mexico," said Remedios Gomez Arnau, the consul general in San Diego. "Under no circumstances would it be justified to shoot lethal or non-lethal objects to the Mexican side of the border."
The shooting occurred in an area where the U.S. government's border fence parts from the legal boundary, leaving the border marked only by a yellow stripe painted across the concrete-lined riverbed.
There were conflicting accounts about what happened.
People who said they witnessed the shooting told The Associated Press that more than a dozen people gathered on Mexican soil to plan an illegal crossing to the U.S., and threw rocks to distract agents. They said Border Patrol agents tried to disperse the crowd with pepper spray bullets.
Jose Maria Martinez, who was with the group, said one agent exchanged his pepper ball launcher for a rifle. The agent then fired three shots from a concrete post that marks the official border, Martinez said.
"'You want a fight? You want a war? Let's do it,'" Martinez, 52, quoted the agent as saying. "And pow! He got him right away."
A Border Patrol spokesman, Jason Rodgers, declined to comment on Martinez's allegation and said the investigation was ongoing. He stressed that agents are well-trained and questioned the credibility of the Mexican witnesses, many of whom were trying to get into the country illegally.
Another Border Patrol spokesman, Daryl Reed, said the agent fired his gun on U.S. soil after seeing Ortega wielding a softball-sized rock on Mexican soil. He said the group hurled rocks at agents from inside the U.S., but returned to Mexico after the Border Patrol used tear gas and pepper projectiles.
"This agent thought his life was in danger or that his fellow agents' lives were in danger, so he responded," Reed said. "(A rock) is a deadly weapon."
San Diego police Lt. Terry McManus said the confrontation began when the group hurled rocks and one person failed in an attempt to climb over a fence just inside the U.S.
The shooting is the latest confrontation near the bustling San Ysidro crossing.
Border Patrol agents routinely get rocks, bottles and bricks thrown at them from people in Tijuana hoping to distract the agents long enough to jump the fence.
The Border Patrol began firing tear gas and high-impact pepper balls into Mexico last year in response to what it said was an alarming increase in attacks. San Diego-area agents have been attacked more than 330 times since October, compared with 254 times for the previous 12-month period, according to Reed.
 
I am proud of the US Border Patrol. Let slip the dogs of war and to hell with nasty, dirty Mexico.
 
Who cares what Mexico thinks anymore?Mexico has done nothing for this country in years but bust our chops.I say declare war on it for once and for all and show them we want them to leave us alone.It's about time Mexico takes care of it's own people for a change.Hey if they want California back,I say give it to them.Massachusetts can take care of all the leftist folks we seem to be breeding now days. There,I feel better now.
 
"This incident is of great concern to the government of Mexico," said Remedios Gomez Arnau, the consul general in San Diego. "Under no circumstances would it be justified to shoot lethal or non-lethal objects to the Mexican side of the border."

They should pistol whip this guy and throw right back over the border.
 
"This incident is of great concern to the government of Mexico," said Remedios Gomez Arnau, the consul general in San Diego."

Tough $hit. I think the .gov should give the BP officer a medal for excellent marksmanship..........
 
"This incident is of great concern to the government of Mexico," said Remedios Gomez Arnau, the consul general in San Diego. "Under no circumstances would it be justified to shoot lethal or non-lethal objects to the Mexican side of the border."

They should pistol whip this guy and throw right back over the border.

Except for he's a diplomat... Just PNGing him would send the message more clearly.
 
to play devils advocate, if what was said about the officer is true, and he had the option to use less then lethal and changed to lethal, that would raise some eyebrows.

if he was using pepperballs, he might of had a FN303, which would of been a decent choice over use of a firearm in my opinion.

i dont subscribe to the "kill anyone whos not america" theory that runs around.

i have countless hours of training with less then lethal, and im very confident in its ability to change peoples minds, especially from throwing rocks. if the person was throwing a molotov cocktail, then lethal is the only reasonable response. rocks on the other hand are real, real iffy (depending on size of rocks and how far away they are being thrown from.
 
Rocks can be a deadly weapon. At the very least, can produce sever injuries! Shoot the little pricks!

Wasn't it David that brought down Goliath with a stone???
 
Rocks can be a deadly weapon. At the very least, can produce sever injuries! Shoot the little pricks!

Wasn't it David that brought down Goliath with a stone???

Stoning was a means of execution during biblical times. It's STILL used in countries like Iran and other enlightened nations.

I have a feeling this guy is going to be scapegoated to make everyone happy.

Too bad.
 
I wonder if he shot him in the ass on purpose. Either way its pretty funny! [grin] I don't know about you but a softball sized rock that could hit you on the side of the head sounds dangerous to me. [thinking]
 
to play devils advocate, if what was said about the officer is true, and he had the option to use less then lethal and changed to lethal, that would raise some eyebrows.

if he was using pepperballs, he might of had a FN303, which would of been a decent choice over use of a firearm in my opinion.

<snip>

rocks on the other hand are real, real iffy (depending on size of rocks and how far away they are being thrown from.

As someone who's been attacked on the southern border by rock throwers, I guarantee that I can change your mind on this issue. You will have no doubt reaching for a gun is the proper response.

And, of course, there's the issue that stoning is still a form of capital punishment.....
 
As someone who's been attacked on the southern border by rock throwers, I guarantee that I can change your mind on this issue. You will have no doubt reaching for a gun is the proper response.

And, of course, there's the issue that stoning is still a form of capital punishment.....

if i did that overseas id be in military prison right now. they specificly told us if it wasnt deadly then we could not use leathal force. we had to use desrection, and think of the consequences if some military prosecutor thought we over reacted. like it said, it depends on the size of rocks, and how far they are being thrown from.

this perosn was shot in the ass, which would mean to me that he was not directly facing the person that shot him, i.e. not throwing rocks at that moment. curious.
 
if i did that overseas id be in military prison right now. they specificly told us if it wasnt deadly then we could not use leathal force. we had to use desrection, and think of the consequences if some military prosecutor thought we over reacted. like it said, it depends on the size of rocks, and how far they are being thrown from.

this perosn was shot in the ass, which would mean to me that he was not directly facing the person that shot him, i.e. not throwing rocks at that moment. curious.
The rocks I faced were the size of softballs. One hit and you're dead or maybe incapacitated and then they have your gun.

And they were about 5-10 yards away from me when they were throwing, and closing in. I was trapped at the bottom of a cliff and couldn't get out without climbing.

Means, opportunity and intent. That's all you need, even in the military.
 
The rocks I faced were the size of softballs. One hit and you're dead or maybe incapacitated and then they have your gun.

And they were about 5-10 yards away from me when they were throwing, and closing in. I was trapped at the bottom of a cliff and couldn't get out without climbing.

Means, opportunity and intent. That's all you need, even in the military.

softball sized rocks from 5-10 yards away is a safe bet to use your firearm with justification.


if you were to say half sized tenis ball sized rocks from 50 yards away then thats the land of iffy..

see what im saying?
 
softball sized rocks from 5-10 yards away is a safe bet to use your firearm with justification.


if you were to say half sized tenis ball sized rocks from 50 yards away then thats the land of iffy..

see what im saying?

Absolutely.

Also remember in CA they're mostly throwing from up top of the wall, which also gives them elevation.
 
Was the cop supposed to throw rocks back?I doubt it.They are taught to use batons if attacked by fists,and shoot if a knife is drawn.You never use the same force to take down the bad guy.You are paid to win,not break even.If liberal America decides to change the rules now,it's time for cops to quit and find other work.In other words,if you throw rocks at me,you better be wearing a bullet resistant vest.
 
So basically, it comes down to this...

Mexico allows it's people to propel projectiles across the border into US territory, yet Mexico does not want US border agents to propel projectiles across the border into Mexican territory.

OK then, whatever.

China used slave labor to build a 4,000-mile wall around the place 2,500 years ago.

Let's pay the illegal immigrants a peso per day to build a 4,000-mile wall along our southern border, toss them over it when it's finished, and name it the "Remedios Gomez Arnau Great Wall of Shame."
 
to play devils advocate, if what was said about the officer is true, and he had the option to use less then lethal and changed to lethal, that would raise some eyebrows.

if he was using pepperballs, he might of had a FN303, which would of been a decent choice over use of a firearm in my opinion.

i dont subscribe to the "kill anyone whos not america" theory that runs around.

i have countless hours of training with less then lethal, and im very confident in its ability to change peoples minds, especially from throwing rocks. if the person was throwing a molotov cocktail, then lethal is the only reasonable response. rocks on the other hand are real, real iffy (depending on size of rocks and how far away they are being thrown from.

I'll concur.

The Border Patrolman apparently lost his temper and went out of control.

Less than lethal weapons were there. THat's what should have been used.

Shooting a rock thrower is NOT right, even if it is a Mexican trying to illegally cross the border.
 
I'll concur.

The Border Patrolman apparently lost his temper and went out of control.

Less than lethal weapons were there. THat's what should have been used.

Shooting a rock thrower is NOT right, even if it is a Mexican trying to illegally cross the border.
Shooting a rock thrower is right if the shooter is in legitimate fear for their life. If they weren't then it was a bad shoot.

Means, opportunity and intent. That's all you need.

Incidentally a rock can very well be a lethal weapon.
 
Shooting a rock thrower is right if the shooter is in legitimate fear for their life. If they weren't then it was a bad shoot.

Means, opportunity and intent. That's all you need.

Incidentally a rock can very well be a lethal weapon.

and so can a shoe, a fist or a fork. its all how it playes out.
if the rocks were large and they were being thrown from a close distance then leathal would be a choice. if the rocks were large and being thrown from a far distance, then leathal would be the wrong choice.

like i said already, i find it real curious of how he shot this guy in the ass. i wonder what direction this mexican was facing while he was shot. for all we know the boarder agent could of been angry and shot the guy in the back. there arent enough facts right now.
 
Well the mexican was getting his rocks off and he found out that the US can be a pain in the ass.
 
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