Blood Lead check, am I the only one?

[Dick]

People,

I just wanted to highlight one of the issues with our sport. It is manageable but pay attention. My rules are:

1)Shoot outdoors when you have the option
2)Wash your hands after after you shoot
3)Use outdoor shoes when shooting at an indoor range, my indoor range shoes never come in the house
4) Change your clothes when you come back from an indoor range and put them in the hamper
5) No food or drink near a range or while reloading
6) Get my blood lead checked every year. I hit a high of 4 pmm while spending a lot of time at a crappy ventilated indoor range

be safe and have fun

I agree with all of your recommendations, but there must be something wrong with your units. As mentioned earlier, serum (blood) lead concentration is typically expressed in micrograms per deciliter (mcg/dl). A deciliter of blood is approximately 100 g (i.e., 100 million micrograms), so a 4 ppm concentration would be 400 mcg/dl - at that level, you wouldn't be here, or at least wouldn't be able to talk about it.

I shoot a lot in poorly-ventilated indoor ranges. Nearly two years ago, I decided to add a serum lead test to my annual physical, after one of the guys on my pistol team rang up a 60+ mcg/dl lead concentration on his ("normal" for an adult in the US is generally considered to be less than 10 mcg/dl and there are those who say even that's too high). It came back at 31 mcg/dl, which was high enough to be reported to the DPH by law, and resulted in me getting a very nice but (for me) useless letter from the state informing me of my rights vis a vis workplace lead exposure. I immediately started shooting with a respirator fitted with the pink P100 filters that were mentioned in an earlier post, and also became more careful about hand washing and lead contamination in general.

After one year of using the respirator, my serum lead was down to 10.8 mcg/dl and I'm optimistic it will continue to fall into the <10 mcg/dl range. In addition, the hypertension (high blood pressure) that I was diagnosed with at the same time has diminished considerably. Hypertension is a documented effect of lead poisoning.

I'm an environmental scientist working in toxicology and risk assessment, so I have some professional knowledge of all of this, though not specifically with lead (I work with PCBs). I've looked into the literature on lead toxicology, however, and while there is some conflicting data, it appears that about 90% of inhaled lead enters the body, something on the order of 20% of ingested lead does so, and very little enters through dermal absorption (i.e., through the skin). So, a respirator is your first line of defense, followed by hand washing - not because of entry through the skin per se, but rather via ingestion or inhalation from eating or smoking with contamination on the hands. FWIW, I don't buy the "cold water keeping the pores closed" thing either, but admit that I don't have data one way or the other.

Most of the shooters on one of my two pistol teams are now shooting with respirators and I'd no more think of entering an indoor range without my respirator than I would of entering without my eye and ear protection. Remember, there was a time when ear protection was also unusual and considered somewhat effete on ranges. We now know better and I think in a few more years the same will apply to respirators on indoor ranges.

 

[jenlynn724]

My kids are checked every few years, and normal according to my pediatrician is <10g/dl.. I have never had my lead levels checked as an adult..

 

[rep308]

Dick,

Thank you for your excellent post. After checking my records my level is 10 mcg/dl down from a high of 40 15 years ago.

 

[supton]

Thanks Dick. I like that you pointed out that blood lead levels do come down--I was under the impression that it stayed in the blood stream for much much longer. I suspect that may have something to do with my reading from VPC/HCI/etc prior to getting into shooting...

Speaking of which, this is one aspect of the (hobby/sport/defense/however you want to phrase it) that ought to be better answered by us. There are documents by the VPC/etc that are "OMG! lead is evil" and ignoring their complaints will only make enthusiasts look bad.

 

[supton]

Plumbing solder is no longer made with lead, per EPA rules. OSHA will come down hard on anybody working with it without proper personal protection and ventilation. You don't have to boil lead to get the fumes airborne. Melting it is enough.

I will dispute that. If it was true, OSHA would have a crapfest with electronics assembly. They don't. My company actually had a soldering tech wear a respirator for a week, to see if she inhaled any lead; she did not. The ventilation (for soldering) is required for the burning of rosin (flux), and the other precautions for for ingestion (by transference).

As I said, I don't know if the harder lead used for casting bullets is different; and I'll grant using a blowtorch to melt lead could easily create lead fumes: but simply melting lead should not create fumes.

 

[Chris Custodiet]

I had mine checked this year for the first time ever. I told my doctor it was because of a concern we had at work about lead in the drinking water (true).

My test came back clean.

 

[FreeWillie]

Have mine checked every year during the annual physical. I reload so I'm always exposed. I also cast bullets from time-to-time. Even more reason to get checked. We have a great sport but it does have it's dangers, some more insidious than others.

 

[Woodstock]

Quote: Originally posted by Supton:
QUOTE]I will dispute that. If it was true, OSHA would have a crapfest with electronics assembly. They don't. My company actually had a soldering tech wear a respirator for a week, to see if she inhaled any lead; she did not. The ventilation (for soldering) is required for the burning of rosin (flux), and the other precautions for for ingestion (by transference).

As I said, I don't know if the harder lead used for casting bullets is different; and I'll grant using a blowtorch to melt lead could easily create lead fumes: but simply melting lead should not create fumes.[/QUOTE]



The new electronics solder is also lead-free - maybe they're using it at your plant. There are OSHA standards for testing employees for lead exposure, and they don't involve testing a respirator: http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/lead/
As for bullet casting, every reloading manual and website dealing with it has dire warnings. Melting lead at typical casting temperatures will produce airborne dust and fumes. The dust is like baby powder, it gets on clothes and exposed skin as well as the floor and other surfaces, then gets spread around the house. You couldn't pay me enough to cast bullets inside my house.

 

[supton]

We've started using the leadfree stuff (I hate the stuff), and it too needs ventilation. But we still do lots with leaded stuff for inhouse items. The US is not leadfree, at least not yet. I should go read up on it again, it's been a few years since I did.

Now that I think about it, it wasn't a respirator but some aparatus that sampled the air that she wore. Same idea, to sample lead content in the air.

Anyhow, I think I might agree on the casting part too, but I would go further and question the tumbling of brass for cleaning also. My understanding is that the primers use a lead compound of some sort (which is an improvement over the mercury initially used!).

In the end, it's all a matter of what risk one feels comfortable with. I'm not sure how much indoor shooting and indoor reloading I would feel comfortable with, given that I have small kids in the house--maybe things will change in a few years. [And maybe we'll have leadfree primers and "low lead" or leadfree bullets too--there are leadfree 22's today, just not common. Required in certain areas of CA for varmit hunting. I have a box of 22Mag with some, but at $16/50 I probably won't buy more anytime soon.]

 

[Knob Creek]

This is also why you don't want to breathe the dust that comes from dumping your media through a strainer, into a bucket or whatever you use to separate it from your tumbled brass.

Note that USED dryer sheets cut into strips do a fair job of trapping the primer residue, as well as regular range crud, that the media removes from your cases.

This keeps you and the media cleaner, longer.

+1 on the used dryer sheet. And whenever possible run the tumbler and use the media seperator outside.

 

[MA_Shooter]

I used to work for the City of Cleveland, Dept of Public Health. We went to houses in the neighborhood and collected soil and dust samples and tested them for lead. We only went to the homes of children with high blood lead levels. Needless to say, the levels were typically very high. The primary mode of contamination was hand-to-mouth contact. Kids play around the house, crawl on the floor etc.. then stick their fingers in their mouth or ate lunch. Most of the problems could have been remedied with consistent hand washing and general housekeeping.

I wouldn't cast bullets in the house either unless wearing a specialty respiratory.

-MS

 

[Scrivener]

Anyhow, I think I might agree on the casting part too, but I would go further and question the tumbling of brass for cleaning also. My understanding is that the primers use a lead compound of some sort (which is an improvement over the mercury initially used!).

Correct, except for the new "NT" primers. Hence the recommendation to use old dryer sheets and be circumspect about dust from the tumbler.

 

[Lugnut]

Just got mine checked. Dr left me a VM saying it was high and they had to send me some paperwork to the state! How high does it have to be for that?? Unfortunately he's off till Monday and he didn't tell me how high it was! Waiting sucks... but I might have to reduce my indoor shooting. Right before this test I had been at an indoor range for several hours per day for three days... which I never do... figures.

 

[TY43215]

A few years ago I was tested and had readings of 35. Since then I am tested every 6 months with my other blood work.

I got the reading from 35 down to 10 by using THIS

Went back to bulls eye in a newly renovated range. Levels went from 10 to 20 in 6 months

Wanna buy a bulls eye gun?????

Brownell also sells a de-leading hand soap. I keep it in my range bag

 

[Dick]

Just got mine checked. Dr left me a VM saying it was high and they had to send me some paperwork to the state! How high does it have to be for that?? Unfortunately he's off till Monday and he didn't tell me how high it was! Waiting sucks... but I might have to reduce my indoor shooting. Right before this test I had been at an indoor range for several hours per day for three days... which I never do... figures.

I forget the exact concentration - but it's around 25 mcg/dl (micrograms per deciliter). I went through this a year or so ago when my lead was at 31. The notification to the state is no big deal - they'll send you a form letter indicating that your lead is too high and giving you some information on your rights regarding occupational exposure, which of course doesn't apply in your case. That's the last you'll hear from them.

I was able to bring my concentration down to 11.8 in a year by shooting with a respirator with P100 filters - about a $20 investment - with no reduction at all in my indoor range time. You can get them from about any on-line health and safety gear vendor. Another guy I shoot with was over 60 and is now down to the low 20s, again by using the respirator. After you use it for a while you won't pay any more attention to it than you do now to your muffs and glasses.

BTW, I doubt the amount of range time immediately prior to the test made any difference.

 

[eisenhow]

Obviously prevention is the best medicine here, however, could regular blood donation help with this? My mother has hemochromatosis which is an elevated blood iron level disease. The treatment for this is regular blood letting (once every 4-8 weeks). Could this be an effective treatment for elevated lead levels as well? I've got to get my iron levels checked at my next physical, I'll ask for the lead levels as well. I've tried using a mask with P100 filters before but couldn't get used to it. I probably should give it another try.

 

[Dick]

Obviously prevention is the best medicine here, however, could regular blood donation help with this? My mother has hemochromatosis which is an elevated blood iron level disease. The treatment for this is regular blood letting (once every 4-8 weeks). Could this be an effective treatment for elevated lead levels as well?

I'm not a doctor, but I don't think so. We measure lead in the blood because it's a convenient tissue to sample, but the majority of the lead in your body isn't actually stored in the blood, so removal of blood is a very inefficient way to reduce the total body burden of lead.

 

[TY43215]

Just got mine checked. Dr left me a VM saying it was high and they had to send me some paperwork to the state! How high does it have to be for that?? Unfortunately he's off till Monday and he didn't tell me how high it was! Waiting sucks... but I might have to reduce my indoor shooting. Right before this test I had been at an indoor range for several hours per day for three days... which I never do... figures.

Levels over 20 are required to be reported to the state. They send you a pamphlet on reducing lead exposure. Nothing more.

Take one regimen of the cleanse I posted and you will reduce the levels. It is chelating vitamins. The other thing is eat bananas and drink orange juice it all helps.

See me at the next Boston match I will give you the hand cleaner name. Most True Value Hardware stores have respirators rated for lead dust in their paint dept.

I shoot very little indoors now. BUAS is the only indoor match I shoot. The treatment raises my sugar levels associated with my T2 diabetes and I do not want to take meds for that.

Frequent moistening of the nasal passages during a match with saline nose spray makes a big difference also

 

[Lugnut]

Hey guys thanks for all the info.. just got in from a night out and I appreciate the quick help. Thing that has me bummed is I don't know WHAT my lead levels are but it looks like they are certainly over 20... but I won't know till Monday.

I do use D-Lead now Gary- but not enough for sure. I'll definitely pick your brain more next time we hook up. Thing is there are just so many ways I can see the lead getting into me besides just shooting indoors. I know when I strain the brass from the tumbler, handle range brass, etc they all contribute. I just wonder how much contamination comes from handling tumbled brass... dry firing with my gun/mags, etc.

I do know this... when I see people sweap the range with a broom I get freaked out.. all it does is stir up the lead in the air! I'll have to make adjustments for sure...


EDIT: I just found this on a mass website:

Since 1991, clinical laboratories in Massachusetts have been required to report elevated blood lead levels (15 mg/dl or greater) in individuals age 15 or older to the Occupational Lead Poisoning Registry in the Division of Occupational Safety (DOS) within the Massachusetts Department of Labor.

 

[bullseye]

I'm surprised the EPA or Mass laws don't have requirements for indoor range ventilation or disposal ( daily cleanup ). Where's the lead police?

 

[TY43215]

I will bring you some clear shield to use when reloading. remind me. It will be in my bag.

For anyone else wanting Clear Shield for use on hands when reloading contact Chad at Eguns.com Tell him I sent you Chad had elevated lead levels and researched for a product to use while reloading. He added it to his inventory. I first met him when he lived in NH. When he moved home to Utah, I stayed in touch and stayed a loyal customer. He is good people.

Clear Shield at EGUNS

Hey guys thanks for all the info.. just got in from a night out and I appreciate the quick help. Thing that has me bummed is I don't know WHAT my lead levels are but it looks like they are certainly over 20... but I won't know till Monday.

I do use D-Lead now Gary- but not enough for sure. I'll definitely pick your brain more next time we hook up. Thing is there are just so many ways I can see the lead getting into me besides just shooting indoors. I know when I strain the brass from the tumbler, handle range brass, etc they all contribute. I just wonder how much contamination comes from handling tumbled brass... dry firing with my gun/mags, etc.

I do know this... when I see people sweap the range with a broom I get freaked out.. all it does is stir up the lead in the air! I'll have to make adjustments for sure...


EDIT: I just found this on a mass website:

Since 1991, clinical laboratories in Massachusetts have been required to report elevated blood lead levels (15 mg/dl or greater) in individuals age 15 or older to the Occupational Lead Poisoning Registry in the Division of Occupational Safety (DOS) within the Massachusetts Department of Labor.

 

[drgrant]

I'm surprised the EPA or Mass laws don't have requirements for indoor range ventilation or disposal ( daily cleanup ). Where's the lead police?

Don't give them any bright ideas. I don't like crappy facilities either, but something is better than nothing. Let's let the shooters make their own
risk assessments, frankly. There aren't exactly a ton of quality indoor facilities in MA, they probably can all be counted on one hand. (not including the ones the public doesn't have access to, obviously, like police ranges. )

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm surprised the EPA or Mass laws don't have requirements for indoor range ventilation or disposal ( daily cleanup ). Where's the lead police?

If they did, most indoor ranges would be shut-down as "health hazards", legitimately.

The only non-commercial range that I've been in with good quality ventilation is one (of the two) indoor ranges at Braintree R&P, It has a HEPA and negative pressure system, plus a commercial firm comes in weekly and pressure washes the floor and walls. That is a very expensive proposition to install and maintain properly, and most clubs don't have the funds to do either. Our older indoor range is scheduled for an expensive upgrade to the ventilation system, but I have no idea what that will end up like (quality wise).

When I took my NRA Instructor course with GOAL, I was impressed with the super-hi-velocity air intake fan at WP&RC. It felt like a small hurricane of fast moving air coming from behind the shooting line, so it may be a decent conventional ventilation system as well.

Don't give them any bright ideas. I don't like crappy facilities either, but something is better than nothing. Let's let the shooters make their own
risk assessments, frankly. There aren't exactly a ton of quality indoor facilities in MA, they probably can all be counted on one hand. (not including the ones the public doesn't have access to, obviously, like police ranges. )

-Mike

It's tough for the shooters to make their own assessment. Without tools or tests, none of us can really measure the hazard (or lack thereof). The cost to install a high-quality air handling system is up in the 6-figures, way out of reach of most clubs financially. I suspect that this is why most PDs (even when they build new facilities) do not build an indoor range any more. Cost is just prohibitive . . . and first thing that is cut from the building budget.

 

[TY43215]

If they did, most indoor ranges would be shut-down as "health hazards", legitimately.

The only non-commercial range that I've been in with good quality ventilation is one (of the two) indoor ranges at Braintree R&P, It has a HEPA and negative pressure system, plus a commercial firm comes in weekly and pressure washes the floor and walls. That is a very expensive proposition to install and maintain properly, and most clubs don't have the funds to do either. Our older indoor range is scheduled for an expensive upgrade to the ventilation system, but I have no idea what that will end up like (quality wise).

When I took my NRA Instructor course with GOAL, I was impressed with the super-hi-velocity air intake fan at WP&RC. It felt like a small hurricane of fast moving air coming from behind the shooting line, so it may be a decent conventional ventilation system as well.



It's tough for the shooters to make their own assessment. Without tools or tests, none of us can really measure the hazard (or lack thereof). The cost to install a high-quality air handling system is up in the 6-figures, way out of reach of most clubs financially. I suspect that this is why most PDs (even when they build new facilities) do not build an indoor range any more. Cost is just prohibitive . . . and first thing that is cut from the building budget.

The problem I saw at the club I used to shoot at and will not renew my membership in is a know it all attitude. They spent in excess of $150,000 on indoor range renovations and never hired an engineer. They looked at other clubs and said "Good enough for them, good enough for us" They then proceeded to block air flow with Plexiglas, put thermostats in improper locations so the heat did not work properly, and more.

When my lead levels doubled, I brought it to the attention of two board members and was told it must be me not the range. I gave up on the club totally and have not shot there indoors or out. To the point I will drive 3 hours to a USPSA match rather than 20 minutes. I may get over my animosity toward the club but the damage they are allowing to happen to the juniors and others that use the range feeling safe is criminal.

 

[houdini]

I get my check every other year.

 

[Ray-500]

Don't give them any bright ideas. I don't like crappy facilities either, but something is better than nothing. Let's let the shooters make their own
risk assessments, frankly. There aren't exactly a ton of quality indoor facilities in MA, they probably can all be counted on one hand. (not including the ones the public doesn't have access to, obviously, like police ranges. )

-Mike

Agreed. Nor are there a plentitude in RI. After an indoor session, will blow out black into my hankie...expecially after a session of ..45 or .45 LC. Exhaust fans are in place, and working, but their function is limited.

No matter....would rather have an indoor place to shoot during the winter than be concerned about blowing out residue into a hankie. Obviously, just me.