Biggest liberal sob story ever in Globe

[jpattersonnh]

This whole story is BS. I grew up on Long Island and Garden city is only a few miles from the NY city limits, not 60 something. Long Island is only 99 Miles long. Any respectable store owner would have taken the bat away and beat him w/ it. It is big time Gotti country. I bet this guy is in a morgue within a month.

 

[terraformer]

This whole story is BS. I grew up on Long Island and Garden city is only a few miles from the NY city limits, not 60 something. Long Island is only 99 Miles long. Any respectable store owner would have taken the bat away and beat him w/ it. It is big time Gotti country. I bet this guy is in a morgue within a month.

It was Shirley, not Garden City.

 

[tele_mark]

This whole story is BS. I grew up on Long Island and Garden city is only a few miles from the NY city limits, not 60 something. Long Island is only 99 Miles long. Any respectable store owner would have taken the bat away and beat him w/ it. It is big time Gotti country. I bet this guy is in a morgue within a month.

Freeport here. When I was 4 or 5, 1967 or '68, the people in the house two doors down from us (On Commercial St -- across from the LIRR) were all wiped out in a "hit". I was playing outside on the lawn and the cops suddenly appeared at the house and I got my first look at bodies -- 5 - being carried out covered by sheets. My brother, who graduated in '66, saw........"interesting".....things on the RR tracks and down at the reservoir.

 

[Will Brink]

In other news, I came across what may perhaps be the most outrageous, typical, bleeding-heart, liberal sob story I have ever read in the Boston Globe. The associated press would like to inform you that if you own a convenience store, don't fight back when robbed and threatened with a deadly weapon, just hand over the money and show compasion because "he was only committing the crime to support his starving family".

If you own a store and that's what you wanna do, then it's your right to do it. I support the store owner fully here. As long as he supports others Rights to self defense in the face of aggression, I support his right to act exactly as he did. I didn't see (1) the Globe stating this is how one should behave during a robbery and (2) I didn't see the shop owner claiming it either. I don't see it at all as a "liberal sob story" but a human interest story that turned out OK. You and I might have done it differently, but it does not make the shop owner a bad person, just a person who put his own life at risk unnecessarily, but showing compassion is not a liberal fault by default. That's my take...

 

[drgrant]

Tell me, Delta L Varmint, what do you do when you CAN'T FIND A F__KING JOB? AND you've run out of unemployment insurance?

Preferably something other than steal things from people via a threat of deadly force. Go out on the highway and hold a sign or something like that. Even begging is better than trying to rob someone.

FWIW I have no problem with the store owner deciding to "let him go"- frankly, that's his decision to make. In a commie state like NY, even if
he was justified in blowing away this guy, he could probably end up losing his whole store.

-Mike

 

[Delta L Varmint]

Tell me, Delta L Varmint, what do you do when you CAN'T FIND A F__KING JOB? AND you've run out of unemployment insurance?

Just curious.

Well for one thing I DO NOT rob or steal! So are you and all the other people bitching about my comment saying you'd go rob someone? If everyone keeps robbing this guy he's not going to be able to feed his own family! I do NOT envy anyone who is a victim of our dog sh!t economy, but desperation doesn't mean it's OK to rob and steal. Period. What about food pantries, soup kitchens or other charitable options?
Seriously, if this guy REALLY has to feed his family I don't envy him but the ends don't justify the means. I'm certainly not better than anyone else but you have to draw the line somewhere

 

[Yelena]

For all the Christians on this forum, ask yourself: What would Jesus Do?

I am not a Christian.

 

[Delta L Varmint]

Preferably something other than steal things from people via a threat of deadly force. Go out on the highway and hold a sign or something like that. Even begging is better than trying to rob someone.

FWIW I have no problem with the store owner deciding to "let him go"- frankly, that's his decision to make. In a commie state like NY, even if
he was justified in blowing away this guy, he could probably end up losing his whole store.

-Mike

Thanks! Seriously, family starving at home? If you HAVE to commit a crime (no other options) steal the food, don't threaten someone. If someone on this forum was working at that store this guy could have been on the business end of a loaded gun wielded by someone not afraid to use it and be very dead. It's even harder to feed your family from the county morgue.

 

[namedpipes]

So, how much did the crook pay for the bat he traded for the $40? The cheapest one Walmart has is like $25. He made maybe $15, less if it was a good bat.

 

[Yelena]

Tell me, Delta L Varmint, what do you do when you CAN'T FIND A F__KING JOB? AND you've run out of unemployment insurance?

Just curious.

While collecting unemployment, one can complete CNA courses. Not the cleanest job, but always availble and provides a small, but steady income.
Sorry, after I was finding jobs without even speaking much English, and after I see many people who did so, it is hard for me to beleive that one can't find something in a large city. Especially a man, who can typically do more stuff than a woman... Like unloading trailers. Which I have done, BTW.
And if this guy produced more children than he can support, it is nobody's fault but HIS.

 

[Delta L Varmint]

So, how much did the crook pay for the bat he traded for the $40? The cheapest one Walmart has is like $25. He made maybe $15, less if it was a good bat.

Pre-ban bats go for big$!

 

[Yelena]

If everyone keeps robbing this guy he's not going to be able to feed his own family!

BTW, where is this store? I want my 40 bucks, too!

 

[tele_mark]

So, how much did the crook pay for the bat he traded for the $40? The cheapest one Walmart has is like $25. He made maybe $15, less if it was a good bat.

Probably stole it.

 

[namedpipes]

Then the shopkeep paid for and received stolen goods!

 

[mark056]

While collecting unemployment, one can complete CNA courses. Not the cleanest job, but always availble and provides a small, but steady income.
Sorry, after I was finding jobs without even speaking much English, and after I see many people who did so, it is hard for me to beleive that one can't find something in a large city. Especially a man, who can typically do more stuff than a woman... Like unloading trailers. Which I have done, BTW.
And if this guy produced more children than he can support, it is nobody's fault but HIS.

Yelena,

You make a very good point and in a sense it alludes to the original question that Ross posed. I think there are several issues which need to be raised, however. The first is underemployment. I worked two jobs (realisitically couldn't work three because of the schedule) and still didn't have enough money to meet basic needs, I am not talking about lifestyle here, I mean basic needs such as food and shelter. Yes I had a car (a real luxury sedan called a Ford Pinto) and in Souther California a car is a necessity. No car, no access to work, it's that simple. I had debt to pay from a previous period of affluence, the honorable thing is to pay one' s creditors...right? Training wasn't an option because of my work schedule and besides I already had two college degrees. When it looked like I could no longer pay my rent, I volunatrily left my apartment and in breaking my lease, I also forfeited my security deposit. I was homeless but a friend let me stay with him until I could go through the process of joining the Army which took a little time because I was a prior-service applicant (I had already served four years in the military and was at that time also in the Air National Guard so I guess you could say that I did have three jobs).

Believe it or not one advantage that you have is that coming from somewhere else, you see opportunities and have a perspective that native born Americans don't always have. Also too, you had hope. Once you have the rug pulled out from under you, sometimes it is hard to put things in perspective.

1982 saw one of the biggest years of unemployment in this country since the Great Depression. Sometimes (and we are going to find this out very shortly, I fear) there are no jobs. Wait until the unemployment rate doubles and I am betting that it will.

I am glad that things worked out for you and it is a testimonial to your character and perserverance and your ability to see opportunities where others see none. There is also an intangible here.

I totally agree that people should not live beyond their means, watch their reproductive impulses and only have a family that they can afford. However, situations become fluid, and it is possible to be affluent, living within one's means one day, and literally become down and out the next. There are far too many on this forum who have never experienced a real recession in this country, like the one we had in the 70's and early 80's much less a depression like the one in the 1930's.

Mark056

 

[Yelena]

Mark, I can understand being unable to find a job when the economy is bad. However, even a few years ago, when jobs were readily availible, I saw people who "could not find anything". BS. If you need to live, stop looking for a high-paying job and take whatever is availible. I was taking jobs like cleaning and selling donuts, so everyone can do it.
Rent may be hard to pay, however, there always is an opportunity to find roommate. My husband was living with two other guys when he was working a low-paid job. It is not the most pleasant thing, but better than being homeless.
Also, this is a free-market economy. That means, when one is choosing a profession, they must think not only whether they like it or not, but also of job avaliability. My husband became a truck driver (attending weekend school while working two jobs) not because he is crazy for trucks, but because good truck drivers are always in demand.
My only advantage on arrival here was an ability to build a social network (a heritage of a collectivistic society) with people who are on the same boat and ready to help each other. There were people who supported me, and people whom I supported. Even now, if a friend of mine will face a hardship, I'll offer them to stay in my place. Not much perspective is needed for it. Just common sence and understanding that if we are helping each other, everyone's chances are better.

 

[dwarven1]

You might have to take a much much lower paying job if you can even find that.

Been there, done that. Went from a job paying $64K to 4 months of disability... and the DAY before I was going to come back from disability, I got told "Don't bother to come in; we eliminated your job". I had a new job within a month... at $30K. With a mortgage and a car payment to deal with (and car payment was a necessity, as it was a requirement of the job to have a car big enough to carry a 6' ladder, tools, etc).

Fortunately, Mrs Dwarven1 was still employed, and the car payment and the mortgage were manageable on her salary plus what little I was getting. But it could have easily gotten ugly had I not gotten a better job within a year...

Well for one thing I DO NOT rob or steal! So are you and all the other people bitching about my comment saying you'd go rob someone? If everyone keeps robbing this guy he's not going to be able to feed his own family!

I do not know what I'd do if I had children at home and I couldn't feed them. I'd like to think I would not stoop to theft, but never having been in that situation I can't say that. Do you have kids? The parents I know would do damn near anything for their kids - don't know if it would include theft or not.

What I'm saying is that I DON'T KNOW what lengths I'd go to for my children. That's all.

 

[RI_John]

I do not know what I'd do if I had children at home and I couldn't feed them. I'd like to think I would not stoop to theft, but never having been in that situation I can't say that. Do you have kids? The parents I know would do damn near anything for their kids - don't know if it would include theft or not.

What I'm saying is that I DON'T KNOW what lengths I'd go to for my children. That's all.

No one really knows because it depends on context. I could easily construct a thought experiment where anyone would steal but the contrived circumstances of that thought experiment would be so unlikely it is absolutely ridiculous. For example-

"Obama declares himself dictator for life and all the right wing extremists (i.e. everyone here) are rounded up and put into FEMA camps. While in the camps, a group of rebels, call them the Wolverines , toss a biochem weapon into the Obama brownshirt barracks, and everyone in the camp- guards and prisoners starts dying horribly painful deaths where their intestines explode and they bleed out. However, the camp guards have a hundred vials of serum that will counteract the virus, they plan to adminster it to the 100 guards. You have the choice- do you steal the serum to give to the 100 children in the camp or do you obey your absolute moral principle against theft and let the children die so the guards can live"

Yes ridiculous, yes absurd, but I'm guessing even Derek and Martlet would steal to save the children, with the caveats of "It's not stealing in war" or "They gave up their rights not to be stolen from when they imprisoned innocents" or whatever. And I would say "It's nice to find out you're an untrustworthy person with no morals"

 

[mark056]

Derek would save the children ...I'm not so sure about Martlett ...yeah I really believe it. I think he is the first moral absolutist I ever met. This is in no way to be construed as an ad hominem attack about his person or character. From what I have been able to glean from his prolific and well written postings, I do not think that he subscribes at all to the concept of situation ethics. In short I believe that he is what he is and believes what he believes. There are those who do not believe in blood transfusions because of religious reasons who have not permitted their children to have them to save their lives. (No, I am not saying that Martlett is one of those) but like those who do, I believe his value structure is consistant down to his very DNA.

Mark056

 

[Delta L Varmint]

No one really knows because it depends on context. I could easily construct a thought experiment where anyone would steal but the contrived circumstances of that thought experiment would be so unlikely it is absolutely ridiculous. For example-

"Obama declares himself dictator for life and all the right wing extremists (i.e. everyone here) are rounded up and put into FEMA camps. While in the camps, a group of rebels, call them the Wolverines , toss a biochem weapon into the Obama brownshirt barracks, and everyone in the camp- guards and prisoners starts dying horribly painful deaths where their intestines explode and they bleed out. However, the camp guards have a hundred vials of serum that will counteract the virus, they plan to adminster it to the 100 guards. You have the choice- do you steal the serum to give to the 100 children in the camp or do you obey your absolute moral principle against theft and let the children die so the guards can live"

Yes ridiculous, yes absurd, but I'm guessing even Derek and Martlet would steal to save the children, with the caveats of "It's not stealing in war" or "They gave up their rights not to be stolen from when they imprisoned innocents" or whatever. And I would say "It's nice to find out you're an untrustworthy person with no morals"

Oh jeez, someone's been reading the Turner Diaries again..........

 

[drgrant]

I do not know what I'd do if I had children at home and I couldn't feed them. I'd like to think I would not stoop to theft, but never having been in that situation I can't say that. Do you have kids? The parents I know would do damn near anything for their kids - don't know if it would include theft or not.

What I'm saying is that I DON'T KNOW what lengths I'd go to for my children. That's all.

Ross, I think that one thing that is not being presented in all of this is that the delta between "being poor" and being "desperate enough to steal food from someone else" is at least as wide as the grand canyon. The typical scenario that poor people face in the US is not "TEOTWAKI OMFG theres ZERO food anywhere all the deer are shot and there are no fish to harvest and all the food charities and government assistance is 110% gone oh noes whatshouldwedo!!!! aiee!"

There are likely a lot of (relatively) poor people in the US, making minimum wage (or less!) and most of them probably don't have to steal things to get
by.

I'm not suggesting in any way that being poor is "fun" but all things are relative, especially in this case. In the US even if you are poor there
are a lot of ways to beat the couch cushions to get enough resources to survive.

-Mike

 

[theGringo]

So, how much did the crook pay for the bat he traded for the $40? The cheapest one Walmart has is like $25. He made maybe $15, less if it was a good bat.

Go back to post #45. The guy took the bread and the 40 bucks, pased on the milk, and took his bat with him when he fled. The bad is evidently his ... means to provide. I have no sympathy for this one.