Best non +P .38 snub ammo?

[BillB]

I recently acquired a old 2" S&W model 36 from a fellow member. What are some of the better NON +P .38 ammo today? I remember the old LSWCHP (lead semi-wadcutter hollow point) used to be considered a formidable round along with reversed wadcutters, but recent tests show they do not expand well especially when clothing is involved....even the Federal 'Nyclad' LHP. While newer JHP's like Gold Dot and STX seem to expand & penetrate well....or is that only with +P rounds?
Am I missing something?

 

[NavelOfficer]

Probably the dum-dum round (A HollowBaseWC loaded backwards, I believe) is destructive enough. I wonder how far they go before tumbling. Taurus makes an interesting HBWC, if you can ever find them; I came across a box and loaded some reversed. Haven't had the opportunity to fire them at any distance yet.
Seems as though the LSWC Hollow Point would be about as good as it gets with standard .38 Special loads, but I'm hardly a ballastician or authority on anything, for that matter.
Ultimately, you have to realize that a 38 Special (any caliber, for that matter) is only going to do so much.

 

[MassMark]

I believe Remington still makes the 158gr non +P FBI load...

 

[Bob P]

Hornady does a non-+P in their Critical Defense line. I've never shot it, but I have shot their 9mm from that line and it's good stuff. Some early 9mm batches had primer issues but they seem to have resolved that problem.

 

[TheRoland]

I'd have no problem using LSWCHP. They've got a proven record, even if they're non-optimal.

 

[BillB]

I believe Remington still makes the 158gr non +P FBI load...

I think the LSWCHP FBI load IS a +P....and without the extra power they don't expand?


I'd have no problem using LSWCHP. They've got a proven record, even if they're non-optimal.

But I wouldn't call the FBI load "non-optimal" or the .38 not capable of much....the reason people went from revolvers to semi-automatics was mainly for capacity, and semi-automatics usually need some sort of jacket to load reliably.


With 2" barrels almost all HP bullets won't expand, never mind NON +P....the reason people used wadcutters is simply because of it's frontal area.
The problem is, most all factory wadcutter ammo is loaded to VERY low velocities....I would like about 800 fps from 147gr , but don't reload.
The optimal NON +P round for a 2" revolver....a soft lead wadcutter loaded to about 800 fps? It's all coming back to me now....

 

[Jeff Holt]

I chrono'd some Winchester .38Spl +P 125 gr SJHP against Appalachian Ammo's 158gr LSWC (standard .38Spl. load).

Winchester = 840 FPS
Appalachian Ammo= 830 FPS

I loaded these in O-F Starline nickel cases with .38 Spl +P headstamp, and advertise it as such. The velocity warrants it even though the pressure is lower.
I believe this round is easily capable of 1000 Ft + through a longer barrel. Pretty dern accurate, too.

You don't have to wait for Wal-Mart. (Sorry, No Sales to Massachusetts)

Cheers,
Jeff Holt
www.appalachianammo.com

 

[redtail]

Bill, your 36 will safely fire most 38 special ammunition, including most of the +P stuff on the market. You won't even be coming close to maximum pressure, and you won't hurt your revolver 1 little bit. This +P stuff is a bunch of hyped up BS and nothing else. I have 3 older J frame 38s, and I fire my own stuff that meets or exceeds +P velocities all the time in them, with no ill effects to the guns. They are as tight as the day they were made, and 2 of them are airweights. Trust me, if it ain't going faster than 1000 or so fps, you need not worry about your gun handling it safely. No matter what you get told otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else chimes in to tell everyone how crazy my advice is, but I'll stand by it forever.

I'd stay away from Corbon and Buffalo Bore kind of stuff though. Its way too hot for a J frame.

 

[BillB]

I have always heard that you can use some +P on a limited basis in an old J frame. Although I have also heard that S&W says you can't?

 

[jasons]

I tried the Hornady (at least I think it was Hornady) "low recoil" stuff in my 642 and it seemed to kick more that the Speer short barrel +P that I ended up going with. Not sure why - maybe one of the NES ballistics experts could shed some light on that one.

 

[Jose]

If you are looking for defensive ammo, load up the +P lead semi wadcutter hollow points and don't worry about it. You will never shoot enough of them to hurt your pistol.

 

[M60]

I'm told that Federal redesigned the Nyclad line .It is available in 125gr.and 158 gr. . I bought some of each for an old S&W49 bodyguard I have .The hollow point on these rounds is really deep.Looks like great expansion capabillity.

 

[ACK495]

Check this thread authored by famous wound ballistician, Dr. Gary Roberts:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

He believes that standard 148gr wadcutters are a good choice for .38 snub revolvers for a number of reasons: low recoil, impressive cutting action caused by the flat front and sharp edges, and very good penetration in soft tissue. Most .38 hollowpoints, other than +p load's like the speer 135gr sb, corbon dpx, hornady cd, will not reliably expand out of the short 2" barrel. Especially when you factor in heavy clothing. The 158gr LSWCHP is very prone to clogging after passing through heavy clothing, resulting in no expansion. So you're better off going with the mild shooting, full wadcutter that has better wounding potential. Makes sense to me, YMMV. And it's non +p so it fits the bill.

 

[BillB]

Check this thread authored by famous wound ballistician, Dr. Gary Roberts:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

He believes that standard 148gr wadcutters are a good choice for .38 snub revolvers for a number of reasons: low recoil, impressive cutting action caused by the flat front and sharp edges, and very good penetration in soft tissue. Most .38 hollowpoints, other than +p load's like the speer 135gr sb, corbon dpx, hornady cd, will not reliably expand out of the short 2" barrel. Especially when you factor in heavy clothing. The 158gr LSWCHP is very prone to clogging after passing through heavy clothing, resulting in no expansion. So you're better off going with the mild shooting, full wadcutter that has better wounding potential. Makes sense to me, YMMV. And it's non +p so it fits the bill.

That's what I heard too.
Was wondering if someone came up w/ something better since then?

 

[drgrant]

That's what I heard too.
Was wondering if someone came up w/ something better since then?

You're looking for a golden egg that doesn't exist. In a .38 snub with a 2" barrel you get the heaviest pill you can get and launch it as fast as you can and pray. The Speer 135 +P load is pretty much the best manifestation of this out there. If you're not willing to go +P, then get a 158 gr LSWCHP and be done with it. That said, it'll probably be easier to find a +P load, and .38 +P typically won't hurt most decent .38 SPL revolvers during sporadic use.

-Mike

 

[GSG]

It's a revolver, so anything should feed fine in it if the gun works.

Use anything.