Avg failure rate?

[headednorth]

I loaded up 100 rounds of 45acp tonight. ( Berry's 230 gr plated round nose) Out of the 100, 16 failed the gauge test. Only 2 were well above flush, the rest were just barely above the gauge. I ran each one through the seating/crimping die a second time and swabbed out the gauge with a q-tip to make sure there was no build up of gunk in there.

I was wondering...

-whats the average rate of failure others are experiencing. 16% seems high to me, but what do I know.

-regarding the ones that are just barely above flush, are they good enough to shoot, or does anything above flush need to be pulled?

-could it be possible the case was too long to begin with? Do pistol rounds stretch and need to be trimmed like rifle rounds?

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

The rims ok?

I load jacketed bullets and it's a dented or dinged rim that usually prevents a round from gaging properly in .45acp. I use the knurling on the gage as a file to clean it up then re test it.

Check your case mouths also and see if the bullets are shaving and leaving a ring of plating at the mouth where the casing head spaces.

Never trimmed a straight walled pistol casing, only bottle neck rifle brass.

 

[SeanT]

I've reloaded about 1k rounds. Failure rate (so far) is zero.
Pas mentioned, you don't trim straight wall pistol brass as it shrinks the more you shoot it (versus bottleneck rifle brass which lengthens).

 

[EddieCoyle]

16% is way high. It should be under 1%.

Go ahead and see if the ones that wouldn't gage will fit in your pistol's chamber. If they fit, they'll shoot.

Something is wrong with your process. I'd check these three things first:

1. Are the bullets the right diameter? (Measure a sample - this is why I don't use plated bullets)
2. Is your sizing die set as low as possible (almost kissing the shell holder/plate)?
3. Is your crimp right? Check it by running a factory round into your crimp die. You should feel it 'crimp', but just a little.

 

[headednorth]

The rims ok?

I load jacketed bullets and it's a dented or dinged rim that usually prevents a round from gaging properly in .45acp. I use the knurling on the gage as a file to clean it up then re test it.

Check your case mouths also and see if the bullets are shaving and leaving a ring of plating at the mouth where the casing head spaces.

Never trimmed a straight walled pistol casing, only bottle neck rifle brass.

Didnt notice any obvious issues with the rims, but I wasnt looking there either. I'll give them a good look. No shavings, know that for sure.

 

[headednorth]

Update...

EC was right on the money regarding failure rate.

- roughly 3-4 passed on the second check. No idea why.
- found some with burrs on the rim. Maybe 5-6. Cleaned them up and they passed as well. ( to beltfed)
- as for the ones that were just a bit above the gauge. A couple that were just barely above and the rim felt smooth but I hit them with a little steelwool anyway and they sat in the gauge nicely- just below flush. The rest that were still above the gauge all chambered in my pistol, so they'll be ok. ( to EC) What better gauge than the chamber of the gun youre going to fire the round from, right?
- one is still well above the gauge. ( I'd say a good 1/8" above) Seemed to chamber in the pistol ok, but I think I'll pull it anyway.

Also measured roughly 40 or so bullets and they were all .452. I set the caliper at .452 and used it as a gauge. (Is that an acceptable method?) Some went in slightly easier than others, but they all made contact with both jaws on the way in and none had to be forced, so that went ok.

The sizing die is set so it just touches the shell holder at the top of the stroke. I dont have any factory 45 on-hand, so I'll have to check the crimp setting another time. I played around with the crimp setting until the bell was taken out of the mouth and they gauged well.

Thanks for the replies. Learned a couple more tid-bits of info.

 

[jtnf]

Update...

EC was right on the money regarding failure rate.

- roughly 3-4 passed on the second check. No idea why.
- found some with burrs on the rim. Maybe 5-6. Cleaned them up and they passed as well. ( to beltfed)
- as for the ones that were just a bit above the gauge. A couple that were just barely above and the rim felt smooth but I hit them with a little steelwool anyway and they sat in the gauge nicely- just below flush. The rest that were still above the gauge all chambered in my pistol, so they'll be ok. ( to EC) What better gauge than the chamber of the gun youre going to fire the round from, right?
- one is still well above the gauge. ( I'd say a good 1/8" above) Seemed to chamber in the pistol ok, but I think I'll pull it anyway.

Also measured roughly 40 or so bullets and they were all .452. I set the caliper at .452 and used it as a gauge. (Is that an acceptable method?) Some went in slightly easier than others, but they all made contact with both jaws on the way in and none had to be forced, so that went ok.

The sizing die is set so it just touches the shell holder at the top of the stroke. I dont have any factory 45 on-hand, so I'll have to check the crimp setting another time. I played around with the crimp setting until the bell was taken out of the mouth and they gauged well.

Thanks for the replies. Learned a couple more tid-bits of info.

Gage repeatability is a topic unto itself. I would not use calipers as a go/nogo gage... Open the jaws and reseat every time, striving to use the same technique and force.
I'll try to elaborate when I am not on a tablet

 

[dcmdon]

I know Eddie dislikes the Lee factory crimp, and he has forgotten more about reloading than I'll ever know. . . but I've found it does a great job of making reliable ammo out of less than perfect bullets.

My current bullet supplier ******** ******* provides me with bullets that are very consistent in diameter and weight. The FC die is not really necessary. But for bullets that have proven to be inconsistent in diameter, it can be a godsend. On .45 ACP, I don't even use the crimp function. In fact the crimp is screwed out so it never touches the case mouth. I use it purely as a full length post sizer. when used this way, I've had 100% functional reliability with my reloads over the last year in my Les Baer.

The Baer is scary accurate. I do notice some loss of accuracy when using the FC. I suspect that I lose some neck tension consistency since the lead does not have as much spring back as the brass. But for IDPA/USPSA type games, its great.

 

[noylj]

1) all cases should be chamfered at least once.
2) straight wall cases that head space on the rim can be trimmed to make consistent roll crimps--though I have never seen any difference myself
3) straight wall cases that head space on the case mouth need to be near max length to minimize head space. I have sorted out 9x19 cases that are within 0.005" of max length for times I was trying for a real improvement in accuracy and it worked, but not by a lot. Increasing head space is not conducive to accuracy.
4) For cases that don't drop in the barrel (or, don't gage), the solution is always the same:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel and rotate it back-and-forth. Remove and inspect the round:
a) scratches on bullet--COL is too long
b) scratches on case mouth--insufficient crimp
c) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
d) scratches on case just above extractor--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

 

[dcmdon]

Great advice.

 

[headednorth]

Great info. Thanks

 

[380usta]

Glad you asked this. I also just did a 100rnds the other night also using berrys 230gr plated round nose and was running into the same issue. When I use Berry 200gr semi wad cutters they all gauge fine. I had probably around the same 15rnds that wouldn't gauge all the way. I always do the barrel test and they fall right in and out so im not worried about shooting them. Now I just got to find a solution to my problem in one of these responses.

I loaded up 100 rounds of 45acp tonight. ( Berry's 230 gr plated round nose) Out of the 100, 16 failed the gauge test. Only 2 were well above flush, the rest were just barely above the gauge. I ran each one through the seating/crimping die a second time and swabbed out the gauge with a q-tip to make sure there was no build up of gunk in there.

I was wondering...

-whats the average rate of failure others are experiencing. 16% seems high to me, but what do I know.

-regarding the ones that are just barely above flush, are they good enough to shoot, or does anything above flush need to be pulled?

-could it be possible the case was too long to begin with? Do pistol rounds stretch and need to be trimmed like rifle rounds?

 

[380usta]

I ended up just turning the crimp die about 1/8th turn in and backed the seating plug out. Ran the 100rnds through it and now everyone passes the case gage test.

 

[dcmdon]

Years ago, when i first started reloading .45 ACP, I was having trouble with semi-wadcutters in my 1911. An old timer told me that my .45s needed to have a bit more crimp for maximum reliability. He said the case should fit the bullet like "a little black dress". In other words, you should be able to see in the case where the bullet is. it should be "form fitting".

Don

 

[EddieCoyle]

Years ago, when i first started reloading .45 ACP, I was having trouble with semi-wadcutters in my 1911. An old timer told me that my .45s needed to have a bit more crimp for maximum reliability. He said the case should fit the bullet like "a little black dress". In other words, you should be able to see in the case where the bullet is. it should be "form fitting".

Don

That has nothing to do with the crimp though.

 

[dcmdon]

True. But it was one of the tweaks that I learned that has helped me reach essentially 100% reliability with my .45s. I should have flagged it that way.

Re Berry's. I've found that cast bullets tend to be less consistent than swaged bullets in size. ****** ******* swaged bullets are usually within .001 in diameter.

Don