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Authorities: Hofstra student was killed by police
- Thread starter Jamie
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Maybe. However, I stand by my position that if you can't do your job without killing your employer, you need to find a new job.
Who knows. I wasn't there. My potential performance has zero bearing on my statement, though.
I would've shot her in the leg when she toppled down and he couldn't hold her anymore then you fire at his chest... Headshot sealed her fate though. I mean she had a better chance if he shot through her left shoulder into his chest.
8 shots. All of them hit. That says to me this was a extreme close range encounter. I'd wager the hostage got hit with one of the first ones. Tough situation to be in and although I an a firm believer in the early engagement doctrine way more training is necessary. How many times do we have to hear about these magazine dumps under pressure before something is done about it?
I wonder if the cop tried to shoot him in the head and got her instead, followed with 7 rounds posthaste in to his body. If you've got someone in a headlock with a gun at their grey matter, you basically have a shield covering most of your body.
Another justice system failure.
Look at this headline:
Long Island police defend Hofstra student killing - CBS News
Another justice system failure.
Look at this headline:
Long Island police defend Hofstra student killing - CBS News
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Clearly the cop didn't get the FULL memo. When they said "shoot the hostage"... you don't headshot them!
But ya, tough spot to be in. I would love to see some sort of security camera footage to see how it unfolded.
But ya, tough spot to be in. I would love to see some sort of security camera footage to see how it unfolded.
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
this is horrible.
Well according to the NY Daily News the boyfriend tripped going down the stairs and hit the front door, locking it from the outside leaving one cop locked inside the house. Boyfriend then dived behind the couch and yelled "the police are here" It was then that the perp held the girl. When the officer confronted the perp, the perp pointed the gun at the officer. Now the doctrine in place since the early 1960's in that situation going back to the infamous "Onion Field" incident of the LAPD where an officer stood down, surrendered his weapon and the hostage was killed anyway,is to engage the perp. At this point the hostage becomes collateral damage. Some of you armchair commandos and cop haters out there may not like it, but that's the way it is, and that's the way it's taught. If you are a perp, don't point your gun at a cop. That's the way they are trained. People fight the way they are trained. Many here express opinions but these opinions are not based on training.
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The officer ,the same as anybody else has a right to Protect his life under the rule of self Defense. The suspect pointed a gun at the Officer. In that moment was it reasonable for the officer to believe his life was in danger? I say yes. Based on this fact pattern what would any other Police Officer due in this exact situation? What is a reasonable response to a gun being pointed at you? The u.s. suprem Court was very clear in its decision on how Policce use of deadly force must be judged. Graham ,Connor states the use of force must be judges under thereasonableness standard. The judge even stated that hindsight must not be used when judging these cases. The judge stated police must make decisions under tense rapidly evolving situations. If the cop pulled back and the guy blew here head off everyone would be saying he should have went in and done something.unfortunately the girl is dead.This whole thing is a tragedy for all involved.
Another "High Capacity Magazine" tragedy. If only Law Enforcement was restricted to 7 round magazines ...
/sarcasm
Yeah, because cop lives are more important than the lives of those who pay their salary.
OfficerObie59
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You'll never know if you can make that shot until you're faced with the exact life-and-death stress of that situation. I can make head shots from 25 feet in training; add the stress of those circumstances and that confidence will (and should) go right out the window.
Luckily, oppurtunities to replicate such circumstances present themselves ever so rarely.
Police salary does not compensate for being a bullet sponge. Just as a badge shouldn't make an officers life, neither should it make it any less.
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Luckily, oppurtunities to replicate such circumstances present themselves ever so rarely.
Police salary does not compensate for being a bullet sponge. Just as a badge shouldn't make an officers life, neither should it make it any less.
What a cop out, pun intended.
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I get the distinct impression you feel it's worth less.
Your opinion. In my opinion, you have a duty to uphold, that includes putting a citizen's life before your own. I see no circumstances in which I'd agree that it's OK to shoot a civilian in an effort to save yourself. Furthermore, I see no situation in which I'd agree it's OK to place a civilian's life in extreme risk to save your own.
I further believe that if an officer can't accept that, as a tax payer who hires him/her, he should look for another line of work.
So you think I should comment on my performance in a situation I have zero knowledge of? I certainly can't see any scenario in which I would kill a civilian to save myself.
Odd. You should instead get the distinct impression that I hold officers, and the power we grant them, to a far higher standard. Part of that standard is saving victims, not killing them.
This is one of the worst scenarios you could encounter as a cop. Most end with a dead cop.
With out know specifics, what makes you think he could have just backed out and waited? Sound to me he went in, turned a corner and was in the shit.
I'm sorry for all involved. Just awful.
With out know specifics, what makes you think he could have just backed out and waited? Sound to me he went in, turned a corner and was in the shit.
I'm sorry for all involved. Just awful.
The keyboard commandos are starting to chime in, if I was the Leo, I would have fired my goal for the day would be to go home everynight shit happens, i think its funny some of you think the cop should have put his gun down, or shot her in the leg, he probaly would have shot the cop an them her no witnesses
Right. Much better to kill a civilian.
But a lot on here never give them credit when they go beyond on the call of duty, either.
I know rushing to judgment is prerequisite on NES, but wait for more details to come and keep an open mind. Maybe the bad guy shot first (which is what I am assuming). Maybe the cop shot first meaning to hit her. It's not clear, yet.
Until you are in that spot, you have no clue how you would handle it. We have the luxury to sit here and think about a split second decision for hours at a time. Keep that in mind.
This is a great tragedy for everyone involved. A young girl lost her life, and a cop more or less lost his as well. Many innocent families are going to be affected by this. I pray for all involved.
This whole line of debate is pointless speculation, but to your point of qualification for the job, do you feel the same for fratricide regardless of circumstances?
LEO is a civilian too, they made more of a choice to be there, but at the end of the day, still civilian, still human.
I don't have an answer to this situation BTW. You seem to, but I don't... At some point during the confrontation he became an additional victim of the bad guy. So about all I can say for sure is that more marksmanship and stress qualification on PDs sounds like a good idea.
D
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Did I misread the article? 8 shots. 7 hit badguy. 1 hit innocent. I don't know if marksmanship was problem here. This is a nightmare for all involved. 
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Fratricide? What does this have to do with fratricide?
I never claimed to have an answer. I just pointed out the obvious.
Well isn't it equally "obvious" as "not shooting your employer" that you should not shoot your coworkers?
I would say there is nothing "obvious" about either case.
I guess you could always start a thread about shooting our coworkers if the topic interests you.
As for this case, I think it's absolutely obvious that when you're tasked with keeping the peace for the good of society, killing those you serve isn't acceptable. Well, maybe it is to you. I guess my standards are just higher.
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Hard to know what was going through his head. Maybe he figured he was already a dead man and wanted to try and save the girl. Maybe he figured the girl was already a goner and wanted to save himself. Nobody here knows and frankly nobody here ever will know.
As for his marksmanship. Don't know that either. People move when they get shot. If he's holding the girl then she probably moves too.
As for his marksmanship. Don't know that either. People move when they get shot. If he's holding the girl then she probably moves too.
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