Authorities: Hofstra student was killed by police

[ColdDayInHell]

No, its tragic and it will stay that way...

Ugh... A nightmare scenario no matter how you cut it

this. I hate NES sometimes. this is one of those times. the sarcasm and light-hearted posts are ignorant and should not be typed out. I hope the best for her family, this just sucks. I hadn't had a chance to read up on this story, but the more I read the more pissed + upset I get.

 

[Quiet]

The cop ran in to confront the bad guy and enforce the law

he didnt run into to save the female victim because police no longer serve and protect, they enforce laws.

as for quiet's example about the bank. what's more important the money he stole or the girl?

It's not about the money in the bank example; I couldn't care less about money in that context. It's about the perp drawing down on you while holding a hostage.

So what do YOU do?

The folks in here who are always yelling the loudest that cops shouldn't be any different than nor have any special privileges compared to us civilians -- What are YOU doing in the bank robber hypothetical? Taking one for the girl or are you firing, protecting yourself and trying to kill the perp?

Why would you expect the cops to behave any differently if they're not a different class of people?

Your illogic confuses me.

 

[HKdrummer]

It's not about the money in the bank example; I couldn't care less about money in that context. It's about the perp drawing down on you while holding a hostage.

So what do YOU do?

The folks in here who are always yelling the loudest that cops shouldn't be any different than nor have any special privileges compared to us civilians -- What are YOU doing in the bank robber hypothetical? Taking one for the girl or are you firing, protecting yourself and trying to kill the perp?

Why would you expect the cops to behave any differently if they're not a different class of people?

Your illogic confuses me.

First. I freeze time and dive through the air, all while shooting, curving the bullet out of the gun and around the girl striking him in the temple. Once accomplished, I unfreeze time and become an instant hero.

Honestly, I probably shit my pants, because I'm not trained for something like that. how the **** do I know.

The bigger question is why the christ did he go in, in the first place. He should have waited knowing the situation was fluid, and not engaged a perp with a hostage.

 

[GunGrey]

pretty easy answer, Dont confront the guy with a hostage

If you confront him he either shoots at you or shoots the hostage. a lose lose situation

 

[Quiet]

First. I freeze time and dive through the air, all while shooting, curving the bullet out of the gun and around the girl striking him in the temple. Once accomplished, I unfreeze time and become an instant hero.

Honestly, I probably shit my pants, because I'm not trained for something like that. how the **** do I know.

The bigger question is why the christ did he go in, in the first place. He should have waited knowing the situation was fluid, and not engaged a perp with a hostage.

Yeah, you're probably right on a lot of levels.

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pretty easy answer, Dont confront the guy with a hostage

If you confront him he either shoots at you or shoots the hostage. a lose lose situation

That's a good plan.

 

[GunGrey]

Yeah, you're probably right on a lot of levels.

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That's a good plan.

and the plan of action they took is somehow better? but hey they killed the bad guy......RIGHT?.......................RIGHT?

 

[HKdrummer]

Yeah, you're probably right on a lot of levels.

I know, cause I'm feckin smaht dood

 

[Quiet]

and the plan of action they took is somehow better? but hey they killed the bad guy......RIGHT?.......................RIGHT?

I said not confronting the guy is a good plan, what are you on about?

 

[RealQuick]

It would be a sucky situation to be in, no question about it. What happened to protocol though? What happened to creating a perimeter and contacting the superior on duty? There are too many decisions on use of force by some LEOs that should have no business being able to make that decision. There are way too many lawsuits (deservingly so) that tax payers are on the hook for because of poor decisions. Not saying all cops are bad or don't deserve to be LEOs... But there is a problem that is wide spread.

 

[taz-2005]

 

[GunGrey]

I said not confronting the guy is a good plan, what are you on about?

That's just nutty. Police aren't cannon fodder for your warped sense of noblesse oblige. They are there to enforce the law, and in this case -according to the story which is all we have to go on- the officer acted in self defense. Someone pointed a gun at him and he had the right to defend himself. It is unfortunate that the hostage was killed, but the cop isn't the bad actor. The cop didn't instigate the action nor the confrontation nor the escalation

.

 

[ntomsw]

There's no way this happened in NY. A criminal with a gun, in a state with these tough gun laws? I don't believe it.

 

[Quiet]

.

Those are perfectly in sync. The latter does not address the confrontation, it addresses the escalation.

Confrontation happened when he went in and the perp came down the stairs. Without knowing all of the facts in the case, I don't know when it could have been avoided, without requiring the police to get a SWAT term assembled every time there's a burglary.

 

[xtry51]

Mistakes happen, and if that is all this is -- the tragic outcome of a best effort to protect innocent life -- then that is just the way it is. I wouldn't blame the LEO any more or less than I would blame anyone in that situation (a key thing in a world where we all know a non-LEO would receive far more scrutiny and blame).

But, some of you want to go further. You want this to be an outcome that is inherently justifiable merely because the LEO was defending his life. That is too much. Nobody should necessarily be free to kill innocents to save themselves. It can happen. It can be justifiable depending on the situation. But what it cannot be is always and everywhere acceptable, a component of policy or training, or some other absolute. Being on the receiving end of a life-threatening force is not a blank check to do anything at all when innocent life is involved -- not for police and not for anyone. So enough with the ex-post rationalization and defense of the blue line. This is what a number of posters here are responding to -- the extreme defense of killing an innocent apart from the details of the situation.

If one knowingly walks into a deadly situation then one must accept some risk. I don't want anyone coming to save me if their rules of engagement are "**** the innocents" the moment they feel threatened. As an innocent, that is more trouble than I need, and certainly far from helpful in a variety of situations. I would never ask anyone to save my life, to lay down their own, or to be a hero on my behalf. Nobody owes me that, and even if they did I wouldn't ask for it. What I am completely comfortable requesting is do-no-harm. This girl's odds of survival went from unknown to zero because help arrived. As noted above, that may be the tragic result of the best effort the officer could bring. But it is absolutely not fine for anyone to assert that the outcome is acceptable in general.

Eloquent and to the point as usual. +1

 

[PureProwess]

Seriously why do people even call the police anymore? Seems like everyday somewhere they are gunning down pets, killing civilians, accidentally discharging weapons into some poor woman's face, emptying magazines into a car full of women delivering papers and now opening fire on a guy with a human shield.

They are the biggest gang in the nation.

 

[xtry51]

Seriously why do people even call the police anymore? Seems like everyday somewhere they are gunning down pets, killing civilians, accidentally discharging weapons into some poor woman's face, emptying magazines into a car full of women delivering papers and now opening fire on a guy with a human shield.

They are the biggest gang in the nation.

Yeah, but they have uniforms, fancy badges, are exempted from many laws (or just ignore them) and you pay their salary, so that totally offsets the downsides.

 

[mav]

Seriously why do people even call the police anymore? Seems like everyday somewhere they are gunning down pets, killing civilians, accidentally discharging weapons into some poor woman's face, emptying magazines into a car full of women delivering papers and now opening fire on a guy with a human shield.

They are the biggest gang in the nation.

Because self-help is discouraged and often times get's you into serious legal trouble, at least in states run by moonbats.

Makes me want to move to Texas...

 

[NewGuyRay]

I guess I'd like to withhold judgement until/if we get to hear the 911 call made by the woman who went to the ATM to withdraw cash. I'd like to hear if she relayed the quality of information which would indicate a situation requiring a more organized response than the first cop on scene running in like RoboCop. If I understand the situation correctly, the victim was not in the house alone with the perp. If the 911 caller relayed a scene description of a gunman with multiple hostages in the house then the PD might have a much tougher time justifying the judgement of the cop.

 

[Quiet]

Yeah, but they have uniforms, fancy badges, are exempted from many laws (or just ignore them) [...]

There you go again, complaining that they have special rules than you, in the thread where you're complaining that they don't behave differently than you.

Wow.

Is that elegant and to the point enough?

 

[xtry51]

Yeah, totally broke my argument there. Oh wait no you didn't, you just reinforced it.

Cops do whatever they want, civilians be damned. You know, like speeding and racing each other because they can, and then kill two people:

 

[Quiet]

Yeah, totally broke my argument there. Oh wait no you didn't, you just reinforced it.

Cops do whatever they want, civilians be damned. You know, like speeding and racing each other because they can, and then kill two people:

....and?

How does that answer your apparent contradictory demands of demanding that police be treated like everyday people at the same time demanding that they behave differently than everyday people?

 

[xtry51]

....and?

How does that answer your apparent contradictory demands of demanding that police be treated like everyday people at the same time demanding that they behave differently than everyday people?

How am I demanding they behave different? I'm not. I wouldn't shoot a hostage to save my own ass.

 

[Quiet]

How am I demanding they behave different? I'm not. I wouldn't shoot a hostage to save my own ass.

That's YOU but that's not what is required. You don't have to ignore a threat to your own life.

That said: REALLY? You think your life is less valuable than another? You know that the hostage is an innocent and not the drug buyer, for instance? You have an opportunity to kill the perp and save both of your lives and you'd just commit suicide rather than defend yourself?

Wow, you so need a Superman cape! And a big letter S on your chest.

 

[xtry51]

That's YOU but that's not what is required. You don't have to ignore a threat to your own life.

That said: REALLY? You think your life is less valuable than another? You know that the hostage is an innocent and not the drug buyer, for instance? You have an opportunity to kill the perp and save both of your lives and you'd just commit suicide rather than defend yourself?

Wow, you so need a Superman cape! And a big letter S on your chest.

So because you're selfish, I'm the guy who's an ass? How does that work exactly?

If I can't clearly shoot a person holding another hostage, I won't shoot. There's a lot of factors in that like relative size, distance to target, are they moving or stationary, etc?

In that situation there is a person in need of help and I'm a helping kind of guy, not a selfish dick who says "**** the hostage I'm going to live no matter what."

But hey, if that's who you are have at it. Just another reason I don't want you or the police ever coming to my aid.

 

[Martlet]

So because you're selfish, I'm the guy who's an ass? How does that work exactly?

If I can't clearly shoot a person holding another hostage, I won't shoot. There's a lot of factors in that like relative size, distance to target, are they moving or stationary, etc?

In that situation there is a person in need of help and I'm a helping kind of guy, not a selfish dick who says "**** the hostage I'm going to live no matter what."

But hey, if that's who you are have at it. Just another reason I don't want you or the police ever coming to my aid.

They'll never get it.

 

[Quiet]

It's not about how you or I *might* behave. You're DEMANDING that the police behave in a way that is contrary to what is allowed under the law for you and me, while BEMOANING the fact that police aren't held to the same laws as you and me.

Stop bringing in red herrings.

It's perfectly OK to hold conflicting views. There's even a word for it.
Just admit it. You want the police to behave like they're special people, but you don't want them to have laws that treat them as special people.

We all get it.

/thread.

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They'll never get it.

Oh I get it. I understand it.

You hate all authority. Most especially anyone who could ever have any authority over your personal freedoms. You seethe that cops are treated specially and seethe when they behave like humans. They can't win in your world because you won't let them. You hate them.

Now /thread.

 

[OfficerObie59]

You want the police to behave like they're special people, but you don't want them to have laws that treat them as special people.

+1

 

[Martlet]

It's not about how you or I *might* behave. You're DEMANDING that the police behave in a way that is contrary to what is allowed under the law for you and me, while BEMOANING the fact that police aren't held to the same laws as you and me.

Stop bringing in red herrings.

It's perfectly OK to hold conflicting views. There's even a word for it.
Just admit it. You want the police to behave like they're special people, but you don't want them to have laws that treat them as special people.

We all get it.

/thread.

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Oh I get it. I understand it.

You hate all authority. Most especially anyone who could ever have any authority over your personal freedoms. You seethe that cops are treated specially and seethe when they behave like humans. They can't win in your world because you won't let them. You hate them.

Now /thread.

Nope. You don't get it.

 

[OfficerObie59]

In that situation there is a person in need of help and I'm a helping kind of guy, not a selfish dick who says "**** the hostage I'm going to live no matter what."

If someone points a gun at the most well-trained person, that well-trained person may take the shot and not even realize it until the shot has been fired.

I think it not just possible but actually likely that the very concious decision--which you attribute to selfishness--wasn't deliberated in the manner in which you assert.