ATF investigating police officer "personal purchases" of off-list handguns in CA

[terraformer]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/11/08/BAP61LS7SO.DTL

The article is brain dead and makes it look like the ATF is investigating the purchases because there is no reason for the cops to have these firearms (see that our popo friends, you aren't' safe from these moon bats). Anyhow, the ATF is likely not investigating the purchases, but sales from the officers to civilians. CA is similar to MA in that the sales can be made of off list guns in private sales. The mechanism is different in that there the FFL has to make the transfer as FTF is banned, but transfers are exempted from the list requirements there.

Coming soon to the PRM???

 

[economist]

The ATF should be abolished. Of all of the injustices and crimes in America, including those imposed on us by government, how in the world does it make sense to dedicate any resources to silly stuff like this?

 

[EddieCoyle]

The ATF should be abolished. Of all of the injustices and crimes in America, including those imposed on us by government, how in the world does it make sense to dedicate any resources to silly stuff like this?

It won't matter. If the ATF was abolished today, some other agency would get the task of wasting resources on silly stuff like this.

ETA: Don't get me wrong - I'm all for abolishing the ATF. Even if some other TLA takes over the silliness, it'll take them a while to get as douchey as the ATF.

 

[glide]

LEO's are allowed to buy whatever they want. They are also allowed to sell off-list handguns. They are allowed to 'convert' personal assault weapons and then sell those too. They are obviously exploiting a loophole, but until it is closed, what's the issue? And why is the ATF involved? This is a state of CA issue.

 

[terraformer]

LEO's are allowed to buy whatever they want. They are also allowed to sell off-list handguns. They are allowed to 'convert' personal assault weapons and then sell those too. They are obviously exploiting a loophole, but until it is closed, what's the issue? And why is the ATF involved? This is a state of CA issue.

They may be selling enough guns to make their actions "engaging in the business of selling". i.e.; a small number of cops selling a large number of firearms. Is this a major issue to me personally? No, but it's against the law and the obvious and natural consequence of mallum prohibitum laws warping a functional and rational market to drive an artificial scarcity.

Now some cops are going to lose their jobs and their freedoms for succumbing to the temptation.

 

[joeendris]

I feel my brain draining away every time I see ATF mentioned. The same goes for TSA and the DEA. At least I like my locals, and <hopefully> they tolerate me . But some of these .gov groups are just plain full headshot.

 

[glide]

They may be selling enough guns to make their actions "engaging in the business of selling". i.e.; a small number of cops selling a large number of firearms. Is this a major issue to me personally? No, but it's against the law and the obvious and natural consequence of mallum prohibitum laws warping a functional and rational market to drive an artificial scarcity.

Now some cops are going to lose their jobs and their freedoms for succumbing to the temptation.

ATF: We think you're acting as a gun dealer
Cop: My chief signed off on all my purchases and now I'm liquidating my private collection.

Who wins that battle? Obviously it seems they were doing it to turn a profit, but without a law that says you cannot sell more than X guns in a year, how do you prove it?

Edit: I found the Fed law: How does this hold water if it was clearly not their principal objective since they obviously make their living as a Law Enforcement Officer?


(21) The term "engaged in the business" means—as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the en- hancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

What sucks is that there is a list, an off list, whatever the hell you want to call it at all.

Secondly, why is a cop allowed certain guns that the general public isn't? They are nobody special, they just think they are and hold sway over others with their badge and office.
This is a setup for inequality and injustice under the law. A Double standard!!!

Its the very same principle as apartheid, including the racial aspect of it in many places.

 

[In God We Trust]

Just more martial law BS in my opinion. The fed .gov wants to remind the local enforcers that when the SHTF, they are not immune to the might of the feds either. If the local cops are not afraid, then the decent ones might question what side to choose when it all comes apart.

 

[joeendris]

Just more martial law BS in my opinion. The fed .gov wants to remind the local enforcers that when the SHTF, they are not immune to the might of the feds either. If the local cops are not afraid, then the decent ones might question what side to choose when it all comes apart.

Feds might want to remind themselves that there's 350 million of us and not quite 1m of them. Odds are pretty crappy even if they do have bigger boolits.

 

[pdm]

It won't matter. If the ATF was abolished today, some other agency would get the task of wasting resources on silly stuff like this.

ETA: Don't get me wrong - I'm all for abolishing the ATF. Even if some other TLA takes over the silliness, it'll take them a while to get as douchey as the ATF.

It would take exactly zero seconds, as all the Always Think Forfeiture guys change their business cards to show the new TLA. You don't think the .gov will actually fire everyone wholesale, do you?