"Arm Yourselves," - Army Chief

[DecOFlaherty]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-01/gun-sales-surge-switzerland-army-chief-warns-arm-yourselves

Ok... not ours. Our Commander & Chief is busy trying to get us to disarm.

 

[the_shootist]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-01/gun-sales-surge-switzerland-army-chief-warns-arm-yourselves

Ok... not ours. Our Commander & Chief is busy trying to get us to disarm.

That's OK, I'm way ahead of him!

 

[Spanz]

I thought that you were REQUIRED to own a rifle in Switzerland to protect the country-each and every household. when did THAT law change?

 

[Waher]

Not required to own. The government GIVES you a select fire rifle to hold onto as part of the militia. They expect you to qualify with their ammo each year to keep it. Personal ownership of firearms and acquisition of ammunition outside of that is on your own.

 

[headednorth]

 

[the_shootist]

Not required to own. The government GIVES you a select fire rifle to hold onto as part of the militia. They expect you to qualify with their ammo each year to keep it. Personal ownership of firearms and acquisition of ammunition outside of that is on your own.

Nice idea but do you think the Kenyan in Chief would go for it?

 

[spt_1955]

Not required to own. The government GIVES you a select fire rifle to hold onto as part of the militia. They expect you to qualify with their ammo each year to keep it. Personal ownership of firearms and acquisition of ammunition outside of that is on your own.

Don't forget. ALL ADULT MALES IN SWITZERLAND are required to perform military duty. And yes they are required to keep their guns at home. Which makes sense given the size of the country. If it was ever invaded the militia would not have time to report to armories and check out weapons. They would be expected to pick up their guns and head to their assignments.

 

[Waher]

Nice idea but do you think the Kenyan in Chief would go for it?

He'd like all guns to be state owned. All his supporters would get to keep theirs, all his opponents would have to return theirs to the central armories.

That's the big rub in Switzerland. Everyone can get issued one if they agree to keep qualifying, but the government controls the qualifying and private ownership is a tightly regulated permission slip deal. Were the Swiss to ever get a crazy government the people could be very quickly disarmed.

 

[AHM]

He'd like all guns to be state owned. All his supporters would get to keep theirs, all his opponents would have to return theirs to the central armories.

That's the big rub in Switzerland. Everyone can get issued one if they agree to keep qualifying, but the government controls the qualifying and private ownership is a tightly regulated permission slip deal. Were the Swiss to ever get a crazy government the people could be very quickly disarmed.

Are the modern Swiss really that high on the sheeple scale? Mass confiscation sounds a lot like centrally-commanded surrender to an enemy.

Target Switzerland, by Dr. Stephen P. Halbrook.

 

[rali]

So ... Some points of clarification:

A survey that includes 12 cantons (according to link in OP) is like a survey that covers only 22 states. Dubious, statistically speaking. There are 26 cantons.

The Swiss government does not "give" a rifle, nor isthe Swiss Army a "militia" in the US sense. Swiss citizens serving are issued a rifle. They have the _option_ to purchase it at the end of their service, in which case it will be converted to semi-auto, and if not purchased, it is returned to the depot.

There is no "requirement" for individual ownership of firearms and never has been.

Military service is no longer compulsory for all males (there are alternative forms of service)

For a while now (to lazy to go check the exact date) ammunition is no longer issued/stored at home.
Swiss in military service have the option to store their rifle at the depot as well, if they choose.

Thanks,

Reto

 

[rali]

Are the modern Swiss really that high on the sheeple scale? Mass confiscation sounds a lot like centrally-commanded surrender to an enemy.[/QUOTE

I believe the reference to confiscation was a POTUS wish list item, not a reference to Swiss governmental policies. In any case, it is somewhat more complicated to purchase a firearm in Switzerland than in MA, but it is also more complicated to get a driver's license, a diploma from a school and most other things. That's just the way it is. It would chafe most everyone likely to read this post.

Target Switzerland, by Dr. Stephen P. Halbrook.

Ugh. Not a particularly well researched OR written book, nor current.

Reto

 

[AHM]

Are the modern Swiss really that high on the sheeple scale? Mass confiscation sounds a lot like centrally-commanded surrender to an enemy.

I believe the reference to confiscation was a POTUS wish list item, not a reference to Swiss governmental policies. ...

Not in the second 'graf of the message I replied to:

[Obama would] like all guns to be state owned. All his supporters would get to keep theirs, all his opponents would have to return theirs to the central armories.

That's the big rub in Switzerland. Everyone can get issued one if they agree to keep qualifying, but the government controls the qualifying and private ownership is a tightly regulated permission slip deal. Were the Swiss to ever get a crazy government the people could be very quickly disarmed.

The question stands: would a critical mass of civilian Swiss gunowners of 2016 submit to gun confiscation mandated by a hypothetical government intent on tamping down a nationalist backlash to a flood of entitled Muslim refugees? Or would citizens defy such an order en masse?

... In any case, it is somewhat more complicated to purchase a firearm in Switzerland than in MA, but it is also more complicated to get a driver's license, a diploma from a school and most other things. That's just the way it is. It would chafe most everyone likely to read this post.

I'm not surprised. I'd read once a claim that widespread gun ownership contributed to low Swiss crime rates. However, it was refuted by the counterclaim that it wasn't Swissprudent to break the seal on your militia ammo supply to repel home invaders - that it was a hideous offense to use national defense ammo for self-defense at home.

That begs the impact of a quorum of citizens who own their own guns and ammo usable for self-defense...

Ugh. Not a particularly well researched OR written book, nor current. ...

(I wouldn't know; I've only read the linked excerpt, and McPhee's La Place de la Concorde Suisse. And I don't recall precisely what the latter 21-yo book had to say about their home guns).

 

[JohnZ]

Swiss army chief André Blattmann warned, "The threat of terror is rising, hybrid wars are being fought around the globe; the economic outlook is gloomy and the resulting migration flows of displaced persons and refugees have assumed unforeseen dimensions," adding that "Social unrest can not be ruled out."

So the terrorists hate us because of the Bush wars, Gitmo, Trump anti-islamic rhetoric, etc, etc, etc. Isn't Switzerland neutral? What excuses are being made for why the terrorists hate Switzerland?Is there a secret Swiss section in Gitmo?

 

[frenchman]

I thought that you were REQUIRED to own a rifle in Switzerland to protect the country-each and every household. when did THAT law change?

There was never such a law. The reason why most Swiss households have a SIG 551 at home (we are talking Full auto here) is that every man who has been a conscript is, up to the age of 55 (I believe) a reservist, and has to serve something like 2 or 3 weeks/year. As a reservist in Switzerland, you keep your full kit at home. Sans ammo.

 

[beaker]

I thought that you were REQUIRED to own a rifle in Switzerland to protect the country-each and every household. when did THAT law change?

If you are fit to serve you do compulsory military training then you go into the reserves, I seem to remember that you keep your gear and uniforms till you are 52 I believe. They used to keep ammunition at home as well but they changed that a while ago which is full retard.

I see that reto indicates service is no longer compulsory..

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[GlockJock]

Not required to own. The government GIVES you a select fire rifle to hold onto as part of the militia. They expect you to qualify with their ammo each year to keep it. Personal ownership of firearms and acquisition of ammunition outside of that is on your own.

Nice idea but do you think the Kenyan in Chief would go for it?

Well, if it was part of the "Relocation Package" that is going to be offered/given to the Syrian and other Muslim refugees when they land here? I'm quite sure William Ayers' old buddy would actually go for it indeed.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

[video=youtube_share;OBFmwTMUld8]http://youtu.be/OBFmwTMUld8[/video]

 

[rali]

Not in the second 'graf of the message I replied to:

The question stands: would a critical mass of civilian Swiss gunowners of 2016 submit to gun confiscation mandated by a hypothetical government intent on tamping down a nationalist backlash to a flood of entitled Muslim refugees? Or would citizens defy such an order en masse?

That feels like a "when did you stop beating your wife" question - impossible to answer.
Swiss government just doesn't work that way. I'm very comfortable saying "won't arise."

First of all, laws typically have a "sunrise" date rather than going into effect immediately. Second, the rights of referendum and petition are well exercised. Any such law would die at the hands of the voters long before it went into effect. It takes 50000 signatures to put a referendum on the federal ballot. It's EASY to find 49999 other people to sign on to pretty much anything (see below). The Swiss Shooting Sports Association has about 175000 members. Do the math

But such a law wouldn't happen anyway. Swiss politics is multi-party; nothing happens without coalitions and compromise. You just don't get US style two party agendas.

And you won't get it by executive fiat either because the executive is a cabinet with parties represented by a relatively stable "formula" - President is an honorary title rotated around the ministers in the Federal Council (I always picture those old comedies where someone calls for volunteers and all the smart ones take a step backward)

There are both pro and anti gun activists, just as there are pro and anti Army activists, but the general run of elections and referenda show that most voters land solidly in the middle.

I'm not surprised. I'd read once a claim that widespread gun ownership contributed to low Swiss crime rates. However, it was refuted by the counterclaim that it wasn't Swissprudent to break the seal on your militia ammo supply to repel home invaders - that it was a hideous offense to use national defense ammo for self-defense at home.

It's kinda moot since Army ammunition is no longer kept at home, but yes, if you did use Army issued ammunition in self defense you would likely be screwed.

But ... you're trying to map US cultural motifs on Switzerland and it isn't a good fit. Private gun own sheik in Switzerland is about national defense and has been for 800 years. It's never been about self defense on the individual level.

(I wouldn't know; I've only read the linked excerpt, and McPhee's La Place de la Concorde Suisse. And I don't recall precisely what the latter 21-yo book had to say about their home guns).

PdlC is a much better book, but so much has changed in the quarter century since it was written. The Swiss Army "active" strength has gone from 600k to 200k and its lost some of its cultural imperative of binding the nation.

Reto

One initiative that didn't make it would have amended the Swiss constitution to grant equal rights to house pets. Not making it up. Personally, I think the dogs were behind it because they saw the cats kicking their asses, but hey, it coulda been the cows, muddying the waters.

 

[rali]

If you are fit to serve you do compulsory military training then you go into the reserves, I seem to remember that you keep your gear and uniforms till you are 52 I believe. They used to keep ammunition at home as well but they changed that a while ago which is full retard.

I see that reto indicates service is no longer compulsory..

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Compulsory service is 18-34 now. You can choose to stay in longer, but it's not mandatory. Most "grunt equivalents" don't do a minute longer than they have to.

Where the circumstances described in Place de la Concord still apply is the burden of service on individuals or small business employees or owners. The big companies can afford to have some percentage of their staff out, but not small businesses. There really are no pharmacy chains in Switzerland; they're all individually owned. There may only be one or two licensed pharmacists. What do you do when the owner/pharmacist gets called up for his annual two weeks? Close the shop?

Reto

 

[rali]

So the terrorists hate us because of the Bush wars, Gitmo, Trump anti-islamic rhetoric, etc, etc, etc. Isn't Switzerland neutral? What excuses are being made for why the terrorists hate Switzerland?Is there a secret Swiss section in Gitmo?

One last reply, then I'm hitting the rack - I swear!

The most right wing of the Swiss parties is the SVP & they've passed laws banning minarets and other anti-immigrant rules. Sadly, the SVP continues to gain ground; the most recent elections showed clear concerns about the refugee crisis. The SVP is the home of the Swiss equivalents to Trump.

I'm sure they're on any number of extremist sh*t lists.

Reto

 

[Coyote33]

So the terrorists hate us because of the Bush wars, Gitmo, Trump anti-islamic rhetoric, etc, etc, etc. Isn't Switzerland neutral? What excuses are being made for why the terrorists hate Switzerland?Is there a secret Swiss section in Gitmo?

From that Zero Hedge article's comments section:
Immigrants Want Cross Removed from Swiss Flag

 

[headednorth]

From that Zero Hedge article's comments section:
Immigrants Want Cross Removed from Swiss Flag

I saw that as well. Article is from '11 and a quick search doesnt bring up any further mentions afterwards.

 

[AHM]

That feels like a "when did you stop beating your wife" question - impossible to answer.
Swiss government just doesn't work that way. I'm very comfortable saying "won't arise."

Oh, it's a hypothetical. (I merely attempted to highlight the question - someone else asked it).

And I don't personally object to an answer of "none of the above", either.

... I'd read once ... that it wasn't Swissprudent to break the seal on your militia ammo supply to repel home invaders - that it was a hideous offense to use national defense ammo for self-defense at home.

It's kinda moot since Army ammunition is no longer kept at home, but yes, if you did use Army issued ammunition in self defense you would likely be screwed.

But ... you're trying to map US cultural motifs on Switzerland and it isn't a good fit. Private gun own sheik in Switzerland is about national defense and has been for 800 years. It's never been about self defense on the individual level.

Regrettable; but a degraded self-defense doctrine in the law offends me in jurisdictions right here.

PdlC is a much better book, but so much has changed in the quarter century since it was written.

I'll keep that in mind upon any future re-read.

The Swiss Army "active" strength has gone from 600k to 200k and its lost some of its cultural imperative of binding the nation.

Dig it:

UK Telegraph: Swiss remove last Cold War-era explosives from German border bridge

(I bet the Finns are adding to their defenses, what ever those might be. Well, I hope they're adding to them...)

One initiative that didn't make it would have amended the Swiss constitution to grant equal rights to house pets. Not making it up. Personally, I think the dogs were behind it because they saw the cats kicking their asses, but hey, it coulda been the cows, muddying the waters.

Yah, I can see Mr. Bigglesworth coordinating the PR campaign from his own little Alpine redoubt.