AR15's - Who makes the best ones and why?

[Boghog1]

so buying these pieces individually what price range am I looking at? The lower was $125, lets say $190 for the barrel, upper receiver $100, Butt stock kit $100, Hand guards $25, BCG lets say $125, charging handle $50, Upper receiver parts kit $60, Front Sight $30, Flash Hider $10 add in shipping from half a dozen different companies lets say $100 and I am into the 1k range and I have no ammo or mags to shoot with. Wouldn't I be better off going out and buying a complete rifle?I mean isn't a Noveske basic entry level around $1500

 

[Supermoto]

If you find one that is built the way you want, then there is no reason not to get a quality factory rifle, You will save money and get a warranty.

 

[Moderator]

Boghog,

Is this going to be your first AR platform? If so, then I recommend buying a complete rifle first. Get to know it, play with it, accessorize it, switch things around, then once you're comfortable with it and you decide that you like AR's enough, go out and build your dream rifle. There are plenty of decent budget rifles out there that are good for beginners. If money isn't a problem, and you don't care about building a gun, then go out and buy a quality Noveske, DD, LMT, or whatever floats your boat.

 

[jdesro]

so buying these pieces individually what price range am I looking at? The lower was $125, lets say $190 for the barrel, upper receiver $100, Butt stock kit $100, Hand guards $25, BCG lets say $125, charging handle $50, Upper receiver parts kit $60, Front Sight $30, Flash Hider $10 add in shipping from half a dozen different companies lets say $100 and I am into the 1k range and I have no ammo or mags to shoot with. Wouldn't I be better off going out and buying a complete rifle?I mean isn't a Noveske basic entry level around $1500

Building an AR yourself isn't necessarily done to save money - as you've noticed, you can easily buy a complete rifle for about the same price as putting one together yourself using quality components.

The beauty of building yourself is that you are not stuck with what the manufacturer thinks is best for you - you can buy exactly the features you want from the get-go.

My understanding is BCM and PSA will let you customize your order somewhat, so you can get the handguards, stock, muzzle device etc. of your choosing.

From what I hear Noveske makes a great rifle, so if they make a rifle that has the options you want at a price you can afford, there is absolutely no reason not to get one.

But for me, the building is probably 80% of the enjoyment of having an AR. It's a real thrill for me to find deals on barrels, uppers etc., and just knowing that the rifle I'm holding was put together by ME - right down to the last pin - gives me far more pride of ownership than if I just went and picked up a rifle at the gun store.

 

[Cuz]

But for me, the building is probably 80% of the enjoyment of having an AR. It's a real thrill for me to find deals on barrels, uppers etc., and just knowing that the rifle I'm holding was put together by ME - right down to the last pin - gives me far more pride of ownership than if I just went and picked up a rifle at the gun store.

I guess it all comes down to knowing your abilities (and limitations). For me, when the SHTF, the very last thing I'd want to be holding is a rifle built by ME!
But, ymmv.
-Cuz.

 

[jdesro]

I guess it all comes down to knowing your abilities (and limitations). For me, when the SHTF, the very last thing I'd want to be holding is a rifle built by ME!
But, ymmv.
-Cuz.

There has probably never been a better time for AR15 type rifles - there are several makers putting out very good rifles at decent prices, and more than likely if you shop around you can find one off the shelf with all the features you are looking for.

But the way I see it, if I do need my rifle in a SHTF scenario, who am I going to trust more in building my rifle - me, or the guy at the factory 1000 miles away, where it is 4:53PM on a Friday afternoon and he just wants to get the Hell out of there because he's put together about 500 of these things this week. I don't mind spending hours paying attention to every little detail, because I enjoy it - it is just a job to the other guy, for the most part.

Sure, it might even cost me a little more to get a box of parts from BCM shipped to me and build it myself than to have BCM build it for me, but I am willing to spend the time to make sure my rifle is perfect when it is done.

Don't get me wrong, I have heard nothing but good things about BCM, and I am not saying that they are not very dedicated to putting out the best product they can. Though I have heard of other manufacturers, where the higher-ups say that they need to ship out "X" ammount of guns and get them to the stores no matter what, and deal with any issues that may arise through warranty.

Well, in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation and your rifle goes Tango Uniform, what are you going to do, call a time out while you pack up your rifle and send it out for warranty repair? Will the company even still be around?

If something goes wrong with a rifle I put together I have no one to blame but myself. Even if it was something out of my control, like a parts breakage, I still have the tools, the know-how and enough spare parts to fix it myself, probably within minutes, instead of waiting perhaps weeks while it is sent back to the factory for repairs.

Sorry for a bit of a rambling post, but i am at work with nothing to do, so it is helping pass the time

 

[Boghog1]

So what is a decent entry level rifle? DPMS, Stag? or do I need to be up in the Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Larue before I can get a decent quality rifle, the chart from the first page is great but there are what 42 different manufactures out there now?

 

[jdesro]

So what is a decent entry level rifle? DPMS, Stag? or do I need to be up in the Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Larue before I can get a decent quality rifle, the chart from the first page is great but there are what 42 different manufactures out there now?

For an entry level rifle, I guess it kind of depends on what your price-point of "entry level" is. In maybe the $700 - 900 range, for the ones you are most likely to see in your typical gun store, I would probably go with Stag or S&W.
Bushmaster and DPMS I don't know - for every person who says they are junk you have another person who says they have no problem with theirs. I had an older Bushmaster several years ago when I was heavily into Highpower Rifle, and it was great, very accurate and no reliability issues whatsoever. But the Bushmaster then is not the same Bushmaster it is now, so I don't know what, if anything, has changed.
If you are willing to order a rifle, PSA and maybe BCM can probably put a rifle together for you within that $700 -900 range as well. Both come pretty highly recommended.
If your entry level price point is in the $1000 - 1200 range, then you probably will not go wrong with a Colt. They have been making them a long time, so they probably have a good idea on how to put them together by now. Again if you shop around, you may even be able to pick up a Colt for a little less than $1000.

As for $1200 and over, the Larue, Noveske et al., I just don't know - they are a bit too rich for my blood! I'm really not sure what they have to offer that you can't really get with a less expensive Colt. Maybe a better finish or more options, but will it run better than a Colt, I just can't say.

There is a nice Colt here for less than a grand - too bad they are out of stock at this time:http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920

Palmetto has one of their rifles on sale for a grand - optics included! http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2557.php

 

[atmay]

So what is a decent entry level rifle? DPMS, Stag? or do I need to be up in the Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Larue before I can get a decent quality rifle, the chart from the first page is great but there are what 42 different manufactures out there now?

DPMS, Stag, M1S, delton, etc., will satisfy plinking etc., but will not hold up to a lot of abuse in most cases. If you're just looking for a casual range toy, those companies will likely do you just fine.

If you're looking for more than a plinker, but not a 100% tacticool operator-grade babykiller, Spikes, BCM and LMT are some of the lower cost "good" manufacturers. You can put together a basic M4gery from spikes for about 800 clams with a home-built lower.


Or if you money to blow, buy a noveske.

 

[PaulD]

So what is a decent entry level rifle? DPMS, Stag? or do I need to be up in the Colt, BCM, LMT, Noveske, Larue before I can get a decent quality rifle, the chart from the first page is great but there are what 42 different manufactures out there now?

Personally, I wouldn't buy a DPMS, Stag or Bushmaster. For the same or a little more money, you can get one from Spike's, S&W, Daniel Defense or Rainier Arms that will be much better.

 

[Boghog1]

so basically I need to spend around $900 for a quality rifle?

 

[atmay]

so basically I need to spend around $900 for a quality rifle?

Yes. And that's not much more than you'll spend on a crap rifle (well, here in MA anyway).

 

[Boghog1]

or 50% more than I could spend on a crap rifle in a free state

 

[joshh]

got my spikes: 16" 1in7" mid-length gas w/ chrome bolt, ma compliant brake, samson buis, pinned stock, pinned pmag & plastic case for under $1000 including taxes and delivery/transfer. went with spikes because spec for spec they closely compared with the "tier 1" brands and the price was great. only complaint was the months of waiting.
if i wasnt so obsessed with the mid-length gas system i was going to buy a bushmaster carbine or the s&w orc. a buddy picked one (s&w) up at fs for $800 last year and its a great rifle. not to plug fs here but they are advertising a bushy carbine on sale for $881.95. if its the model i looked at, its got a2 front sight and removable carry handle.
these things are almost endlessly upgradable and customizable too so you can always buy a basic model & upgrade components as you want. i am doing just that myself and plan to build a basic compact carbine using as many of the old parts as i can.

 

[Boghog1]

I think I'll build a top of the line AK that will do 300 meters for the 600 and spend the extra 300 on mags and ammo

 

[flintoid]

I think I'll build a top of the line AK that will do 300 meters for the 600 and spend the extra 300 on mags and ammo

I built a AK74 that will out shoot 50% of the ARs posted on this forum for ~$500 including a red dot optic. Running russian 7N6 that's less than 50% of the cost of military "reject" 5.56

But lets not get off topic here. This is about quality AR15 rifles. And to add to this thread, I'll mention that going high end on a AR build gets expensive.

I've already spent upwards of $2.5k on a piece part MK12 mod 0 build based upon a preban colt A2 lower ($650), colt upper receiver ($170), colt BCG ($200), and a Douglass MK12 profiled SS barrel ($430). Add on all of the ARMS, PRI gizmos and OPS Inc brake, and you're in the stratosphere for cost.

There is something to be said about building a rifle for what you need out of it. I needed a "replica." So I paid out the nose. If you are building for utility, you can get by for a lot less money and end up with something that is extremely reliable and appropriate for what you're aiming to accomplish.

This build is after owning a Bushmaster for 2 years. But I didn't build for utility- if I would have done that I would have skipped the PRI bullshit, weht with another match grade SS barrel, and saved over $1k.

 

[Boghog1]

Why the love for stainless steel? it is my understanding that stainless doesn't hold up as well to extend hi volume shooting. is that wrong?

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Why the love for stainless steel? it is my understanding that stainless doesn't hold up as well to extend hi volume shooting. is that wrong?

I think flintoid was going for an as close to a clone as he could build.

I have SS barrels, and regular chrome lined barrels. I have read what you said about SS, but I don't shoot the SS barrels enough to worry about that. When I am blasting away for fun, or if I were to take some high volume training, I would use my chrome lined carbine mainly because it is lighter then my SS guns.

 

[flintoid]

I think flintoid was going for an as close to a clone as he could build.

I have SS barrels, and regular chrome lined barrels. I have read what you said about SS, but I don't shoot the SS barrels enough to worry about that. When I am blasting away for fun, or if I were to take some high volume training, I would use my chrome lined carbine mainly because it is lighter then my SS guns.

correct. I'm doing the "painful" route of re-creating a peculiar rifle that was supposedly used by various operators during the gulf/current wars. It's more of an internet legend than anything.

on that note, SS barrels will be more accurate, but they will wear out much quicker. You even have to treat them with kid gloves while cleaning them as you can wear them out even quicker just by cleaning it improperly. I've also read that cleaning them should only be done as necessary, which generally means that you only clean them when accuracy falls off. So, ideally: never.

 

[meth0d]

correct. I'm doing the "painful" route of re-creating a peculiar rifle that was supposedly used by various operators during the gulf/current wars. It's more of an internet legend than anything.

on that note, SS barrels will be more accurate, but they will wear out much quicker. You even have to treat them with kid gloves while cleaning them as you can wear them out even quicker just by cleaning it improperly.

Which rifle is that?

 

[flintoid]

Which rifle is that?

this one, the MK12 mod 0 SPR, minus the bullshit grip, bullshit optic (his mark 4 isn't illuminated), and bullshit BCM parts (I'm going Colt, which is "standard parts" when ordered by the people who put these together for our military).

 

[ChevyGuy91]

By far the sexiest AR configuration out there.

My favorite anyways.

 

[atmay]

By far the sexiest AR configuration out there.

My favorite anyways.

I'ma git one built one of these days.

If I hit the lottery, it'll have a Leupold CQBSS on it

 

[bpm990d]

Holy crap is that a rifle for someone that is coming home?

B

 

[travis]

The question is subjective and misleading at it's core. Knights makes great rifles so did bushy before the flatlanders bought them out. I have a colt m-16 that is a great rifle with countless thousands of rounds through it. So what do you mean by best? You do ask about quality again subjective. I have seen folks take a budget lower and a kit and make some great accurate dependable rifles. I have bought ar's for thousands and honestly think there are ones for much less with equal quality. For every guy that says brand X is the absolute best there are three that will tell you why brand x sucks and why brand z is better and so on. Best is subjective and dependent on the owner and there taste. Like cars homes and everything else choices make life better. The is the core of why ar's are so loved not because there all the same but precisely because each owner can make the rifle his/ her own. You can go super plain with iron sights or full on mall ninja with lasers night vision and a grenade launcher if that's your thing. This is the same reason the 10/22 is so beloved not because of anything else but that it can be made to what you like your way.

 

[drgrant]

The question is subjective and misleading at it's core.

There's nothing subjective or misleading about it. You don't get what you don't pay for, etc, all applies in this case. Most of us have seen it time and time again. The FACT of the matter is some guns are made better than others, period end.

In the skinflint price brackets, IMO builders will have a huge edge over the guy who buys the POS oly plinker or bushmaster, because at least they'll be choosing the corners they want to cut and not the manufacturer.


-Mike

 

[meth0d]

this one, the MK12 mod 0 SPR, minus the bullshit grip, bullshit optic (his mark 4 isn't illuminated), and bullshit BCM parts (I'm going Colt, which is "standard parts" when ordered by the people who put these together for our military).

That thing is gorgeous! Are you doing a similar camo paint job or something different?

 

[Boghog1]

So is there a better value out there in a semi-auto that is in the 5.56 caliber? the Sig556 is around the 1k price point so is it better value than say a BCM?

 

[atmay]

So is there a better value out there in a semi-auto that is in the 5.56 caliber? the Sig556 is around the 1k price point so is it better value than say a BCM?

I think you'll find that most of the other "good" 5.56 platforms are at least as expensive as a quality AR. The only reason to pick one over the other would be personal preferfence.

Personally, I like the modular aspect that the AR platform has that the others don't (except the ACR, but that's up there in price)

 

[Supermoto]

So is there a better value out there in a semi-auto that is in the 5.56 caliber? the Sig556 is around the 1k price point so is it better value than say a BCM?

I found the Sig556 to be very heavy and sluggish to shoot, don't know much about the reliability or quality of the parts