AR15 Grip: Stright thumbs vs. ?

[TheRoland]

So I'm paying alot more attention to my AR15 than typical this week, and I'm curious what the prevailing school of thought is about support hand grips. I've seen this picture:

I've instinctively been using the thumb break method, and resting my thumb on the 9 o' clock rail pointing towards the target. It keeps me close to my light (not relevant for competition) and reminds me of my pistol shooting. Pretty much like this:

I can rotate my hand a bit and get my pointer finger aiming at the target at 9 o'clock and thumb over the bore at 12, but my thumb is pretty close to my front-sight this way. I'm not sure I like it.

I've also seen Jerry Miculek shoot, with his pointer finger resting on top of his bore and a really light touch. Not sure I'm up for that without a Miculek brake or a longer gun; I think my muzzle would flip a bit too much.

What's the prevailing school of thought on this these days?

 

[Jose]

I think too much is made of the exact details of each grip.

I don't use a VFG. I hold the handguards just like I hold the forearm on my shotguns: as far forward as possible, with the palm of the hand on the side of the gun, the thumb pointing forward, and the other four fingers wrapped around the bottom.

Why do I use a shotgun grip? Because gripping a shotgun's forearm/barrels that way maximizes pointability when the shotgun is used in a very dynamic role: shooting flying targets at high speed.

Nobody trained me to do it. I trained myself to do it because it makes sense to me and works for me.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

When I had a VFG on my AR, I shot with a "thumb break grip" if that is what they are calling it.

 

[atmay]

I'm gunna go with Jose on this one. It's not quite instinctual to do it yet, but I think it works the best for me...so I'm working on remembering to do it that way.

 

[Supermoto]

I put my thumb up top then cant the rifle 45* gansta' style

 

[atmay]

I put my thumb up top then cant the rifle 45* gansta' style

Reminds me of the African guys with the umbrellas and life jackets!

 

[wolf223]

i went from a VFG (aka ghetto grip) to AFG on my zombie gun... the VFG didn't do it for me when shooting off hand ... i wish i had a quote from Timber from a while ago....

to make a long story short: individual pref... i found that my off hand shooting and stance seemed steadier w / the AFG. i hold it manly, not really paying attention to how cool i look...

 

[beaker]

I like the AFG mounted as far out on the fore end as my arm allows, similar to how Jose describes his grip. I prefer the angled fore grip over the vertical, it seems to be a lot more stable.

 

[wolf223]

I put my thumb up top then cant the rifle 45* gansta' style

AR-15 "homeboy" sights

-Patent Pending

 

[ChevyGuy91]

AR-15 "homeboy" sights

-Patent Pending

 

[Trupo]

i went from a VFG (aka ghetto grip) to AFG on my zombie gun... the VFG didn't do it for me when shooting off hand ... i wish i had a quote from Timber from a while ago....

to make a long story short: individual pref... i found that my off hand shooting and stance seemed steadier w / the AFG. i hold it manly, not really paying attention to how cool i look...

More importantly Rocko, do you smell manly and keep your face surrounded with class when doing it?

 

[jar]

I'm pretty new to action rifle shooting, but I run an AFG out on the end of the rail. I like how it feels similar to how I run a pistol.

 

[economist]

I'm pretty new to action rifle shooting, but I run an AFG out on the end of the rail.

Same here. Until you actually do some off-hand shooting, moving, and in particular shooting when a little out of breath or when engaging multiple targets, it's hard to know what works. I started with a vertical grip and found that holding it alone was not working at all for me. I ended up moving my hand higher and grabbing the handguard more, using the vertical grip like a hand stop. Then I tried a magpul AFG, which put my forward hand in that position naturally. More experimenting while shooting offhand convinced me to move the AFG out to the end of the rail (a nice reason to have mid-length rails on a carbine, by the way). I am still learning, and no answer may be best for everyone. But for certain I know that nothing will clear things up better than shooting off-hand at multiple targets, then adding a little pressure.

 

[Supermoto]

Also add in shooting with your feet in different positions on leaning around a barricade. The flaws in your grip/stance become more apparent then. Slight changes in where the rifle sits on your shoulder and how your elbows are also make differences

 

[Skald]

I prefer the AFG to the VGS, seems I have a more control over the rifle. I really love how the Troy-VTAC extreme battlerail helped with this aspect, the curve of the free float tube made the grip I used a lot more comfortable.

 

[luceri]

Full-Auto -- vertical foregrip. All else -- thumb break.

 

[TheRoland]

So I shot the match that precipitated this thread, and ended up around the 60% percentile, (70% in my class), which I'm calling pretty good, considering my lack of previous experience. I shot the whole match thumb-break, and am most likely going to stick with that method.

It did seem like most of the people shooting with a vertical fore-grip were not competition shooters, and the opinion of the competition shooters seemed quite anti-vertical grip. Almost nobody I saw was using one; I may have been in contention for "High Vertical Grip" if such a class existed. Even so, I really did like mine, and am leaving it on for now.

 

[Supermoto]

There are 2 issues with the vfg in competitions.
1. It's not faster nor does it help control the gun
2. If you rest it on a barricade, it's considered a bipod and you get bumped to open

 

[TheRoland]

There are 2 issues with the vfg in competitions.
1. It's not faster nor does it help control the gun
2. If you rest it on a barricade, it's considered a bipod and you get bumped to open

I think you told me about both of these problems in person.
While it wasn't an issue in the October HSC match, I can totally see resting the grip against a barricade without thinking.

 

[scottb]

VFG or not - I don't think you can go wrong following the lead of the top 3 gun shooters re stance and grip. Check out the Army Markmanship Units 3 gun specialist PFC Daniel Horner. There are others, notably Jerry Miculek, Taran Butler, Mike Walsh, Mike Voight. Watch some video on these guys and you'll see what wins and works.

 

[RichM]

... and there are millions of users of the AR platforms that don't use any front grips, with excellent results! (Thanks, Veterans!).

... High-adrenaline rushes are just part of the job!

 

[luceri]

In the military the foregrip was nice for pointing the firearm around corners and for maintaining recoil. If you're using an Hbar the damn thing will kill your bicep after a short period of time though, but if you're using it under live-fire your adrenaline will take care of this problem.

For competition, I probably wouldn't use one. Definitely wouldn't use one on an HBar.

 

[TheRoland]

So I spent around a hundred rounds this weekend using the foregrip and then another hundred without it. I didn't really notice that much of a difference either way. The dot may have moved slightly less (and slightly more horizontally due to my higher thumb) without it, but not enough to be sure. With a foregrip, shooting from weird positions (and getting into and out of positions) seemed faster, except for leaning left around a barricade, which was slightly awkward for some reason. I'm not sure it makes that much a difference either way at my skill level, as my occasional trigger slap or flinch was far larger than the dot movement anyways.
Using a flashlight was awkward as heck without it, but that's not relevant to competition.

I'll probably take it off next time I do competition, just to avoid the potential bump to Open. I'm not sure there's going to be any difference on a timer (at my skill level) either way.