AR-15 building

[HKdrummer]

So I've recently decided that I would like to build my own ar-15 and after talking to my father, he told me that I might want to look into the fact that I might need to have a gunsmithing lic. to do so. Is this true? Furthermore, from what little i've looked it seems to be a slightly less expensive way to get a ar-15. Any thoughts?

 

[bostonasphalt2]

So I've recently decided that I would like to build my own ar-15 and after talking to my father, he told me that I might want to look into the fact that I might need to have a gunsmithing lic. to do so. Is this true? Furthermore, from what little i've looked it seems to be a slightly less expensive way to get a ar-15. Any thoughts?

no gunsmithing license needed unless you are doing something extreme like milling a receiver yourself. If you are buying parts and assembling them, assemble away, just make sure you file an FA-10 when done if you are in MA.

 

[Supermoto]

no license needed to build

 

[HKdrummer]

wouldnt you be filling out the FA-10 when you buy the lower? thats the registered "part" of the gun correct?

 

[Supermoto]

the lower by itself, no FA10. when you build the rifle, then file a FA10

 

[Rob]

I believe you will need an FFL license (can some of the experts chime in as to which one) in order to manufacture a gun.

 

[HKdrummer]

see thats what my pops said.....so begins the confusion

 

[bostonasphalt2]

wouldnt you be filling out the FA-10 when you buy the lower? thats the registered "part" of the gun correct?

technically, you dont need to do an FA-10 for a lower, but many do.

 

[Supermoto]

I believe you will need an FFL license (can some of the experts chime in as to which one) in order to manufacture a gun.

you don't need a license to manufacture a gun from scratch... 80% receivers or less.

Building an AR is not manufacturing since it was already purchased from a manufacturer

 

[HKdrummer]

you don't need a license to manufacture a gun from scratch... 80% receivers or less.

Building an AR is not manufacturing since it was already purchased from a manufacturer

Ya I would be basically be buying the parts and putting it together. No "making" of any parts here. I already have a beauty of a colt but I would like to just assemble one for fun/hobby

 

[Rob]

Ya I would be basically be buying the parts and putting it together. No "making" of any parts here. I already have a beauty of a colt but I would like to just assemble one for fun/hobby

Oh, in that case, buy and assemble at will. Just do an FA10 when done.

 

[HKdrummer]

yahoo! thanks guys!

 

[bostonasphalt2]

you don't need a license to manufacture a gun from scratch... 80% receivers or less.

Building an AR is not manufacturing since it was already purchased from a manufacturer

what does that mean? can you clarify?

 

[Supermoto]

If you buy a 80% completed receiver, it is not considered a firearm, you can finish the milling work yourself. no need to register it on the federal level. You just can't build them for resale.



http://www.acmearms.com/80percentfaq.php

 

[Stef]

no gunsmithing license needed unless you are doing something extreme like milling a receiver yourself.

You don't need any gunsmithing license if you're making a gun for yourself. You DO need an FFL license if you're going to manufacture firearms for sale.

 

[copterdoctor]

I always file an FA10 when I buy a lower. It keeps the paper trail straight.
For build help:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

 

[vicpinto]

I always file an FA10 when I buy a lower. It keeps the paper trail straight.

How is that? You haven't built anything that the state recognizes as a firearm. It's a waste of time. You file an FA10 after you have made a completed rifle i.e. the first time you mate the completed upper to the completed lower.

 

[FalArAk]

......

 

[copterdoctor]

The lower is the serialized part and is considered the firearm. No barrel length is recorded. In the area for barrel length, "stripped lwr", "frame only", or similar statement is written.

 

[vellnueve]

The lower is the serialized part and is considered the firearm. No barrel length is recorded. In the area for barrel length, "stripped lwr", "frame only", or similar statement is written.

Wrong.

The lower is not considered a firearm under MA law. MA law defines a firearm, rifle, or shotgun, as something capable of firing a shot. Until assembled, a receiver is not a firearm, rifle, or shotgun under MA law and thus any FA-10 is invalid.

 

[szaino]

The lower is the serialized part and is considered the firearm. No barrel length is recorded. In the area for barrel length, "stripped lwr", "frame only", or similar statement is written.

If you file the FA10 for just a receiver it basically has little or no effect.

Down the road when you make this into a firearm (as defined by Mass Law) is when you are legally required to file an FA10. So you will need to file another FA10 at that point or be in violation of the law.

 

[Chris]

Vellnueve is correct.

Federal Law = Serialized piece is the 'gun'.

MA state law = Complete assembly capable of firing a shot is the 'gun'.

Between the two is "construction". (^_^)

So long as the gun does not fire more than one shot per trigger pull, you can manufacture guns for your own use without any federal involvement. You just may never sell or transfer it to another person. AOW, SBR, SBS, and DD taxes still apply, so be sure you get that paperwork taken care of.

In the case of an AR, once an FFL transfers the serialized lower to you, anything you build on that lower (so long as it does not fall under the AOW, SBR, SBS, and DD tax laws) is completely up to you and has no federal implications. Once the firearm is complete to the point it can fire a shot (ie. it doesn't need sights, stock, handguard, or other non-functional parts to be able to do this) you need to register it with the state in an FA-10. Technically, you could have a complete lower and complete upper and never put the two together and not ever have to file an FA-10, but I'd not recommend that.

 

[copterdoctor]

The previous posts got me to thinking about this subject, so I phoned http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopster...&b=terminalcontent&f=chsb_frb_home&csid=Eeops
and asked about sending another FA10 after building up the rifle to record the barrel length. I was told it was not necessary as the first FA10 had registered that serial number to me. The barrel length issue didn't seem to matter.

 

[Mainer]

I was told it was not necessary as the first FA10 had registered that serial number to me. The barrel length issue didn't seem to matter.

Ahhh... another reason to buy the lower (in person) out of State. Only the NICBC would be involved (Fed) and the initial FA10 (State) forestalled (forend installed?) until assembly. I recollect this important point was discussed elsewhere on a previous thread...

 

[tbk5]

What if you have one lower and two different uppers, say a 16in and a 24in configuration? Or even two different caliber uppers for one lower? How would you complete the FA-10? It's one serial number.

 

[greycar]

Ahhh... another reason to buy the lower (in person) out of State. SNIP ...

New Form 4473 Highlights "Shotgun or Rifle" Distinction

Starting in January, all federally licensed firearms dealers (FFLs) began using
a new version of the Form 4473. The paper form is now a booklet and is once again
the familiar yellow. (For information on the optional electronic version, see
February's "ILA Report.")

The new form has a number of minor changes and edits, but there are two more
important revisions of which gun buyers should be aware. In the section
completed by the FFL holder, the firearm types have been expanded. In the
past, the applicant had to identify each gun as a pistol, revolver, rifle
or shotgun for this entry. Now, the FFL holder must say whether the item is
one of the aforementioned, or if it is a frame or receiver.

This last distinction is important, because while a frame or receiver is legally
a "firearm" under the Gun Control Act, an unfinished frame or receiver is not
necessarily a "shotgun or rifle," because rifles and shotguns are defined under
federal law as guns that are "intended to be fired from the shoulder." (A stripped
AR-15 lower receiver, for example, usually ends up as a rifle, but both manufacturers
and private citizens also regularly build AR-15 handguns on identical receivers.
Until built into a complete gun, the receiver alone is neither a rifle nor a handgun.)

As a result, a person without an FFL cannot buy a frame or receiver in another
state because a dealer can normally only transfer a "shotgun or rifle" to an
unlicensed nonresident. Under the same interpretation, people under 21 cannot
buy unfinished frames or receivers from dealers because an FFL can only transfer
a "shotgun or rifle" to a person under 21. (Of course, a person 18 or older can
continue to buy complete rifles and shotguns, and may buy those guns out of
state if the other conditions for an interstate sale are met.)

NRA remains committed to removing restrictions on interstate commerce in firearms,
many of which became obsolete with the creation of the National Instant Criminal
Background Check System. In recent years, NRA has supported the Firearm Commerce
Modernization Act to update the Gun Control Act by allowing interstate sales of
all firearms.


American Rifleman March 2009 pg.75

 

[DoubleA]

PM Greycar
-DoubleA