Appeasement never works

EddieCoyle

EddieCoyle

Consigliere
Moderator
NES Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
21,329
Likes
9,796
Location
Northern, MA
Feedback: 160 / 0 / 0
US fears Taliban gains in Pakistan
Views cease-fire as Al Qaeda opening

LINK

WASHINGTON - Top US officials are increasingly concerned about Pakistan's ability to confront the Taliban, who appear emboldened by the government's decision to cede a large part of its territory to the armed Islamic militants.


Weeks after a cease-fire in the northwest Swat Valley gave the Taliban free rein to impose Sharia religious law, Pakistani officials reported yesterday that the Taliban were extending their presence to an adjacent district known as Buner, just 60 miles from the capital of Islamabad. US officials fear the tribal border areas with Afghanistan could be a base for Al Qaeda to plot further attacks against the United States.

The Swat Valley cease-fire is jeopardizing the central government's ability to stop infiltration into other parts of the country and is allowing the Taliban to operate with virtual impunity in the Afgahn border area, where their followers are stepping up attacks against American and Afghan troops, warned Army General David Petraeus.

"There are concerns in many of the political communities within Pakistan, and they're all looking very hard at what the im plications of the agreement in Swat will be long-term. . . . That threat is significant," Petraeus, the top US commander in the region, told reporters after a speech at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government on Tuesday evening.

Yesterday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, testifying for the first time before the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said the "existential threat" posed by Taliban extremists in Pakistan should not be underestimated, painting the picture of a nuclear-armed state that is in danger of collapsing.

"Pakistan poses a mortal threat to the security and safety of Americans and the world," said Clinton, who asserted that the Pakistani government is "basically abdicating to the Taliban and to the extremists" with the cease-fire, which was approved by Pakistani president Asif Ali Zardari.

more...
Click to expand...
 
I was reading a thread on another forum about this. Apparently the Taliban are making some serious moves in Pakistan. This shouldn't exactly be a surprise - Pakistan is full of Muslims and a few years back one of the guys who was involved in developing the Pakistani nuclear weapon program was found to have been supply information and materials to Muslim radical groups.

another story in the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124041153700943789.html

The danger here is that this might suck us into even more involvement in Pakistan. Obama has already stated that he thought we ought to go after Pakistan. Could be one of the underlying reasons why troops have been shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan.
 
calsdad said:
I was reading a thread on another forum about this. Apparently the Taliban are making some serious moves in Pakistan. This shouldn't exactly be a surprise - Pakistan is full of Muslims and a few years back one of the guys who was involved in developing the Pakistani nuclear weapon program was found to have been supply information and materials to Muslim radical groups.

another story in the Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124041153700943789.html

The danger here is that this might suck us into even more involvement in Pakistan. Obama has already stated that he thought we ought to go after Pakistan. Could be one of the underlying reasons why troops have been shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

A taliban controlled Pakistan is about the best argument for US intervention I can think of. We KNOW there are WMD's there.

Talk about a rat's nest - Jesus.
 
Not surprised. The Pakistani government has been unable to control the Taliban along their border, so the Taliban decides to take advantage of a weak government. Proof of the government's weakness is confirmed when they attempt to pacify the Taliban through treaty. That approach will never work with this group. They see it as confirmation of weakness and move ahead.

Obama? What's about to happen will wipe the smile off his face.
 
All this insurgency and sabre-rattling by self-avowed enemies of the US is a direct barometer of Obama's weakness and incompetence in foreign policy. He's done the equivalent of posting a "Gun-Free Zone" sign on America's front door.
 
Last edited:
Let's see - Is our secretary of state suggesting that the United States of America needs to take "pre-emptive" military action in a foreign nation to ensure the safety and security of the United States of America?

10 Years ago she made the same statement of Iraq. She stated that Iraq posed the greatest threat to Mild East and World Security. 2 years later she was a vocal opponent of action taken there.
 
I posted this last week....
Although by no means a saint, Musharraf was not really a power hungry mad dictator, ala 'lil Kim or Saddam. He wasn't so much a benevolent dictator either, but was closer to the latter than he was the former. He was the glue keeping Pakistan together at one point but by Bush forcing him into a corner so much, he was pretty much made irrelevant in the eyes of the very people he had been so good at keeping in line. The idiots here in the US and Europe blamed the guy for everything including the Bhutto assassinations, etc yet they were gunning for him and tried multiple times to get him over the last few years of his "term".

Pakistan is likely to spin out of control before it gets better.
Click to expand...
 
Here is an update

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517555,00.html

Pakistan Sends Forces to Taliban-Controlled Zone

PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Pakistani paramilitary forces have been deployed to protect government buildings and bridges in a northwest district near the capital that has come under the sway of the Taliban, an official said Thursday.

The six Frontier Constabulary platoons arrived in Buner on Wednesday, days after militants from the neighboring Swat Valley began infiltrating the area in large numbers, establishing checkpoints, patrolling roads and spreading fear.

The Taliban movement into the district came after the provincial government agreed to impose Islamic law in Swat and surrounding areas in exchange for peace with the insurgents.

Pakistan's president signed off on the deal last week, heightening concern that the agreement would simply embolden the extremists to expand their reign in the northwest regions bordering Afghanistan.

It was not immediately clear if the paramilitary troops were aimed at driving the Taliban from Buner. Syed Mohammed Javed, a top government official who oversees the area covered by the peace deal, confirmed that the platoons had been sent to that district, but he would not say if it was in direct response to the Taliban infiltration.

He did not specifiy the number of troops involved, but a platoon typically has 30 to 50 members.

Also Thursday, dozens of militants armed with guns and gasoline bombs attacked a truck terminal elsewhere in northwest Pakistan, burning five tanker trucks carrying fuel to NATO troops in Afghanistan, police said.
 
We should just follow China's playbook: Feed India advanced weapons. Pakistan's bomb design was given to them by China. When Libya got caught with their hand in the nukey jar and decided to give up everything, one of the big finds was the bomb plans Pakistan's nuke head Dr. Khan had given them. It was an original copy of the Chinese design given to Pakistan after the Chinese-Indian border war in the early 60's. China didn't want to deal with the world's other billion person nation, so they hooked India's worst enemy up with nukes. India forgot about china real fast, and focused on their own bomb program. I'm betting the brains in Pakistan would love to see India sporting modern anti-missile and aircraft systems. A simple message: Play ball with us or we make your mortal enemy infinitely stronger than you.
 
RG617 said:
We should just follow China's playbook: Feed India advanced weapons. Pakistan's bomb design was given to them by China. When Libya got caught with their hand in the nukey jar and decided to give up everything, one of the big finds was the bomb plans Pakistan's nuke head Dr. Khan had given them. It was an original copy of the Chinese design given to Pakistan after the Chinese-Indian border war in the early 60's. China didn't want to deal with the world's other billion person nation, so they hooked India's worst enemy up with nukes. India forgot about china real fast, and focused on their own bomb program. I'm betting the brains in Pakistan would love to see India sporting modern anti-missile and aircraft systems. A simple message: Play ball with us or we make your mortal enemy infinitely stronger than you.
Click to expand...

I agree. Cozy up to India and let THEM take care of Pakistan. I'm sure they'd love another whack at them.
 
Bob P said:
I agree. Cozy up to India and let THEM take care of Pakistan. I'm sure they'd love another whack at them.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This is a perfect example of why I think the people in our government are so freaking stupid and are dragging the country down. There is no country in the world that is better motivated, equipped, and geographically positioned to take care of what might go down in Pakistan than India.

This same logic is why I think we should have just watched our P's and Q's and either let Europe deal with Iraq - or - cozied up to Saddam again - and used him to take care of Iran.

We keep sticking our nose in where not only doesn't belong - but doesn't have to be. And we are bankrupting the country because of it and inviting more attacks against ourselves.

Whenever I hear somebody say that America needs to save the world from itself I want to kick them in the nuts.
 
We should stay out of it. let them kill each other, another war would drain our economy even more and create a favorable environment for attack here in the USA. enough of trying to play world police.
 
evan9201 said:
We should stay out of it. let them kill each other, another war would drain our economy even more and create a favorable environment for attack here in the USA. enough of trying to play world police.
Click to expand...

Bob P said:
I agree. Cozy up to India and let THEM take care of Pakistan. I'm sure they'd love another whack at them.
Click to expand...

Evan has the right idea here. We actually have cozied up with pakistan (ever wonder how they of all people became a nuclear power???) for decades because India had been friendly with the USSR and subsequently the Russians. India would undoubtedly not fall for our bull shit at this point. The best thing from our perspective at this point is to stay the f*** out things. Our interference causes more problems than it fixes.
 
It's unrealistic to say "stay out" when it involves countries possessing nuclear weapons. It may not be our "job" but it certainly is in our interest to put the genie back in the bottle especially in places where such weapons in the wrong hands would likely be used against us. The doctrine of "pre-emptive self-defense" can be implemented in both peaceful and violent ways. Just as with personal defense, the peaceful methods are preferable.
 
So, does Obama-san have the stones to step up to the plate and do what's right to protect us from the Taliban?

Showtime for O.

[popcorn]
 
P-14 said:
Showtime for O.
Click to expand...
Sadly, I think we've already seen his playbook in action...

Provide no direction for operations other than vague restraints on action which ultimately will have to cost real lives of operatives on the ground which forces local command's hand to "re-interpret" or ignore CIC standing orders to get anything done and stop the bleeding...

If it works out well then Barry steps in to take the credit. If it fails, heads will roll, but they won't be his...

Barry should just have "Plausible deniability" stitched into his suits..

Disgusting...

Oh, Pakistan will collapse and force "someone's" hand, but whose hand and when is not yet entirely clear, though we have a good list of suspects already discussed in this thread...
 
As I said, it's not that we want to be World Police, but that the most effective course of action for our own benefit is to kill the poisonous snakes in their eggs, before they leave the nest.
 
FiremanBob said:
As I said, it's not that we want to be World Police, but that the most effective course of action for our own benefit is to kill the poisonous snakes in their eggs, before they leave the nest.
Click to expand...

It's probably too late, we've waited until the ants have come in our house rather than poison the ant hill out in the yard.
 
CMF said:
It definitely appears that handling Pakistan is key to maintaining security for the US. Also interesting to see how far back the problem goes and how it is tied up with India vs Pakistan.
Click to expand...

I think the trouble with the taliban and associated cannon fodder is that unlike conflicts that we are accustomed to dealing with "diplomatically", this isn't about boarders, trade or economics - its about culture...

There isn't an "economic" solution to the conflict between these morons and "the west"...

Diplomacy only works if both sides basically agree that staying alive is good and understand that the human world works best when we can agree to disagree...

There is no provision for maintaining your sovereignty yet disagreeing with an Islamic government outside geographic boundaries...

They will "tolerate" other religions in more moderate examples, but only so long as the "other religions" keep out of sight and out of power...

The liberals need to be held down and waterboarded for a while until they agree to study the real history of the world for a while so that they will understand what portion of history we are currently repeating.[sad2]

The so-called "conservatives" (aka RINOs) also need a kick in the ass to realize that you cannot "give" Democracy to a nation - it has to be earned or it will not be viable... We are sadly proving that here in the US as we speak...

You can remove enemies of freedom and democracy - a practice I support, but in the end, people must earn/choose freedom for themselves or else their failure to demand freedom represents acceptance of tyranny...
 
some of the most severe sh#t I have ever seen at work involves arguments between Indian and pakistani coworkers. They are haters...(of each other) like I have never seen in two groups that I can't tell the physical difference... So, if things play out like they appear to be heading - I would expect the first A bombs of the 21st century will be used there... and you think getting an answer at a call center is difficult now - just wait!
 

Similar threads

Never have I ever...
Replies
26
Views
882
Broc
Broc
Heres one I've never seen
Replies
0
Views
342
jkelly1229
J
15 things you should never say to a legal gun owner
Replies
20
Views
1K
kingfisher
kingfisher
22LR ammo has never been cheaper than now
Replies
29
Views
2K
ridleyman
R
LaRocca Gun Works still in business?
Replies
13
Views
1K
Horatio_Alger_Jr
H
Back
Top Bottom