Anyone ever do a 1911 from scratch?

[Tiktock]

Anyone ever do a 1911 from scratch? By scratch, I mean, having the frame and slide CNC/Milled from a solid billet?

As a knifemaker, I can make damascus billets large enough to do a whole 1911 and i've been toying with the idea of having a frame and slide milled from a solid billet of high-contrast damascus.

I've found CAD drawings and milling instructions for the slide and frame, but my machinery is not quite up to the task.

Anyone work in a machine shop that could quote me an estimate on the hours/cost of milling the frame and slide from two solid billets?

Caspian makes a slide but wants a ton for it, and i've yet to find damascus frames available anywhere. I'd love to have a full-custom 1911 which is made from steel I manufactured myself and is unique against any other 1911 out there.

I'd obviously be in line for lots of paperwork to manufacture the frame and reigster it. Im not even sure a shop could legally do the work for me unless they were properly licensed, so this is still a pipe dream until I work out some of those details.

 

[Brian48]

I've never heard of anyone in the US ever bothering to try this, but over at the 1911forum messageboard, there have been threads about "homemade" 1911s made by the Vietnamese or Chinese during the either the Korean or early Viet Nam war. These knockoffs were supposedly made using the hands-on method you've mentioned completely from stratch after reverse-engineering captured war time 1911s.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Somewhere down in the basement I have a set of 1911 detailed parts drawings. The paperwork to make the gun and the making tax payment are pretty simple, especially since you are in NH. Of course, you can just buy the 07 FFL and make what you want. Jack.

 

[Tiktock]

Ive found a number of people who have done this now after searching....

Seems I will need to find a manufacturer to see if they can swap in my billet for one of theirs when they do a run, or use this as an excuse to beef up my mini-mill and get creative.

The good news is that a lot of knifemakers ahve already contacted me wanting to be part of the project, so the damascus itself should be stunning compared to the low layer-count crap that Caspian sells at a premium.

 

[jon]

getting a machine shop to do a one-off for you even with you providing the material will be close or more than the $700 Caspian wants and thats if they will do it.

To be honest I would be leary of the legal implications of doing it at all let alone with customer provided material. People suck and are sue happy.

 

[namedpipes]

Anyone ever do a 1911 from scratch? By scratch, I mean, having the frame and slide CNC/Milled from a solid billet? . . . I've found CAD drawings and milling instructions for the slide and frame, but my machinery is not quite up to the task . . .

I'd imagine you already found this site:

http://cncguns.com/projects/1911a1frame.html

Caspian does make a Damascus slide, but using their own supplier. If you want to use your own billet, you probably would have to find a shop that would work with you and that wouldn't be cheap or easy, but it would be unique.

Can you make billets large enough for AR lower and upper receivers, by any chance?

 

[Tiktock]

I'd imagine you already found this site:

http://cncguns.com/projects/1911a1frame.html

Caspian does make a Damascus slide, but using their own supplier. If you want to use your own billet, you probably would have to find a shop that would work with you and that wouldn't be cheap or easy, but it would be unique.

Can you make billets large enough for AR lower and upper receivers, by any chance?

The Caspian slide, IMO, is ugly. They are using simple laminated steel, not even pattern welded. I am talking about using quality damascus such as patterns as this:

In all, I know this is going to an expensive project if I go forward with it. I am now talking with a few companies that produce 80% frames and at least one wasn't opposed to using my billet, but havent given me a price yet

Im 90% sure I could do the slide myself using a mini-mill. Maybe I can use this as an excuse to upgrade my machinery and write it off as a business expense for knifemaking, haha!

I can make billets as large as the Dies on the press I have access to, which could probably make a billet at least 4" thick and as long as I wanted, so Receivers could easilly be done. It'd be a lot of work, though....especially if you wanted a nice pattern. The feather pattern above isn't even one i've tried yet, as it takes almost 12 separate steps of welding and manipulation.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Hey Dave,

awesome idea man. how about some damasteel? man would that be bad a$$
let me know if you have any luck with this

 

[Tiktock]

Hey Dave,

awesome idea man. how about some damasteel? man would that be bad a$$
let me know if you have any luck with this

Mike,
I cant afford billets in the sizes i need in damasteel! IG has already offered to help me press out the billets.

KTO has agreed to take on the project thus far. They will cut me two frames if i supply two damascus billets 7/8 X 5 X 12-1/8. Those are some BIG billets, but totally do-able. price has not been set yet, though.

These would be partial frames, so i'd need to source or handle the final milling and drilling myself. From that point i'd just need to have the slide done, which should be easier since its a non-regulated part. In theory, I could have any machine shop make the slide if I supplied a CAD drawing, which i've already found on the net. I have a contact who does waterjet cutting, so he can help do the rough cuts, and I may just do the rest of the slide work on my own.

This project now certainly seems within reach. Im going to make it a LONG term project, work on the billets first and secure a price on the frames, then begin researching someone for the slide work.

Best part is that KTO must cut two frames at once, so i may end up with a pair of 1911's in the end!

I'll keep this post updated with steps, then if I go through with it, I'll document the whole process including all the damascus forging and build process. God I love this stuff....

 

[Rob Boudrie]

To be honest I would be leary of the legal implications of doing it at all let alone with customer provided material.

If the output from the manufacturer is legally a frame, they must have an FFL and their name must appear on the gun. It is possible to get a BATFE waiver to put the name of the manufacturer contracting for the frame on the gun instead of the actual manufacturer, but this takes time.

If you omit certain steps the item manufactured is not legally a frame, and the party doing the final steps is considered the manufacturer by the feds. I believe that leaving the slide rails uncut will allow the item to be a non-frame.

 

[Ripach]

Hats off to you Tiktock.
This is one hell of an undertaking, but it looks to me as if the results will be well worth it. Best of luck and lets see some pictures of this bad boy when if/when it finally comes to fruition.

 

[Tiktock]

Im talking with another knifemaker who has been on the same quest for some time now. Theres lots I still need to learn before I begin. Its one thing to get a gun-like object made from my steel, its another to get an heirloop-quality gun out of this project. I think the difference between the two will equate to the $$ I spend to have a quality gunsmith do all my final fitting and machining. I need to weigh the cost and risks of undertaking some of those tasks myself vs spending a lot more and having it done "right" from the get-go.

I began making knives because I didnt want to spend $$ for the knives I wanted...that same train of thought may not be as easy with guns since there is so much precision and fitting of the moving parts. All it will take is one hole drilled .01" off to make the expensive project fail miserably.

 

[GTOShootr]

I know someone that made a 1911 frame from billet, not an 80%, just a block of steel. They have the proper FFL and made his name into the serial number. I think it took many, many hours and was a project long in the making. I know he said that he wasn't up for making the slide. He thought that was more work. This work was done on a non-CNC mill too.

Anyway, the value is definitely intangible. Picking it up, I just thought it was a Caspian frame with custom serial number.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Dave,

i know a really good machine shop in my area. they have top notch stuff... remeber jerry from the hammer-ins? it's his brother inlaw. http://www.todrin.net/

there is nothing he cannot do. this guys rocks

 

[jon]

If the output from the manufacturer is legally a frame, they must have an FFL and their name must appear on the gun. It is possible to get a BATFE waiver to put the name of the manufacturer contracting for the frame on the gun instead of the actual manufacturer, but this takes time.

If you omit certain steps the item manufactured is not legally a frame, and the party doing the final steps is considered the manufacturer by the feds. I believe that leaving the slide rails uncut will allow the item to be a non-frame.

Its more I would be leary of making an item with material of unknown quality. In case of a KB I wouldn't want to get my butt sued.

 

[Wildweasel]

You can build your own gun with out any paperwork from the atf. (or SN but if you ever transfer it you need to add the sn and manufacturer. (you))
you cannot have someone else make one for you unless they are Licensed. Now you may be able to have a shop do the basic outline of the frame, and then you do the rest of the work, (all the holes, rails etc.. ) (this is the grey 80% area.)