And this is why we need to protect ourselves and not hope for the police

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I saw this article and thought that, sadly, this punctuates the very reason why we need to stop having our gun rights taken away. I don't know if it would have saved her but we cannot rely on someone else to always be around to save us and the states need to stop assuming that they can:

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Brittany Zimmerman, a 21-year-old college student who wanted to be a doctor, called 911 as she was being attacked by a stranger, police say.

Brittany Zimmerman's screams and struggle for her life were captured by a 911 tape.

Brittany Zimmerman's screams and struggle for her life were captured by a 911 tape.

But the police did not come for 48 minutes. By that time, Zimmerman was dead. Her fiance found her body.

Although the dispatcher claimed later to have heard nothing, the 911 tape captured screams, gasps and what sounds like a struggle, according to the court documents.

Spring was in the air when college student Zimmerman returned April 2 from classes at the University of Wisconsin to the off-campus apartment she shared with her fiance, Jordan Gonnering.

He was out when she arrived home. He discovered her body when he returned.

Zimmerman had been stabbed multiple times in her chest, near her heart. She'd also been beaten and strangled, according to warrants released recently.

Zimmerman managed to call 911 at 12:20 p.m. The call was taken by the Dane County 911 center and an internal investigation revealed the dispatcher did not hear any sounds that would signal an emergency.

Because of that, police were not sent to the apartment until 48 minutes after Zimmerman made the call. Her fiance was already there.

Dane County has taken some harsh criticism from the public regarding the delay, and tough questions have been raised about whether a prompt response might have saved Zimmerman's life.

Police are still looking for her killer.

"We are working diligently on this case, have generated significant leads, and are making progress," said Joel De Spain of the Madison Police Department.

The police said they believe Zimmerman was attacked by a stranger. Her apartment door showed signs of forced entry.

After interviews with Zimmerman's family, friends and acquaintances, investigators determined there was no personal motive for the attack.

"In fact, we have not been able to determine any motive yet in this case," De Spain said. He emphasized that police have no reason to believe Zimmerman was the victim of a serial killer.

During the investigation, police have tracked leads pointing to vagrants in Zimmerman's off-campus neighborhood. The vagrants often would knock on doors and beg for money.
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"We are still investigating this avenue, but at this time we have not been able to develop any specific suspects," De Spain said.

Zimmerman's family and friends describe her as a loving, warm young woman, who had much to look forward to. She was engaged to the love of her life and had dreams of earning a medical degree, they said. She was idealistic, and her goal was to help people, not to earn a large salary, they said.

Other details in the released warrants reveal that Zimmerman was murdered in her bedroom, that her cell phone was found in "parts," and that her bloody slippers and bloody computer paper were recovered.

The murder weapon is described as a knife, two to five inches long. Police are not saying whether they have recovered it.

DNA was collected from Zimmerman's body, as well as hair, blood samples, footprints and fingerprints. So far, no match has been made to a suspect.

Zimmerman's family is offering a $14,000 reward, and Crime Stoppers is offering $1,000 for tips leading to the arrest and/or conviction of anyone responsible for Zimmerman's death. Please call the tip line at 608-266-6014.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/16/grace.coldcase.zimmerman/index.html
 
No! Self-defense is dangerous!

Obama will protect us all with his superpowers! Violent crime will be but a faded memory. Money will grow on trees!

And, all you'll have to do is direct deposit your paycheck into the Federal Reserve Unicorn Trust.
 
The police protect us by taking criminals off the street.

The problem with this is being a criminal means, by definition, you've committed a crime. Sucks to be you if you're the victim of said crime.

Add to this liberal judges putting the criminals back on the street and is it any wonder this stuff happens?

That poor girl.
 
It's a sad situation. That no one can deny. The NY PD should be absolutely ashamed of itself. If the dispatcher didn't hear anything then why did they stay on the line and have the entire attack recorded? Anyone else find that odd?

Police can only help after the fact. Unless you have an armed escort with you at all times, and even then, you are responsible for your own safety. Oh sorry, scratch that. The great and powerful .gov will zap all criminal tendencies from everyone's mind and people will live in peaceful Communist bliss.
 
Consider these two facts.

1. The police exist to take criminals off the street.
2. I am responsible for protecting myself.

The police have said, in no uncertain terms, in legal speak and in plain English, through their actions and throughout their recent history, that they have NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY to protect you. That is, they are not planning to and will not be blamed for not, protecting you. You are on your own. They couldn't be more plain about that. If you carefully consider the roots of the "LEO as Protector" myth, you'll likely find it comes from your parents and not officer friendly.

So...now that you know that it's "just you." It always was, so you shouldn't feel too scared. Learn to shoot. Buy a gun. There now, don't you feel a bit better? Sure, not as safe as you did when you were living in a fantasy of omnipotent state security...but better.

In the end it's that "the police will protect me" misconception that is responsible for so many deaths each year.

Can you imagine an airline that routinely tells its passengers that, "well, things happen and planes do fall out of the sky all the time. But don't worry, when your plane falls out of the sky we'll retrieve the black box and find out what happened so that doesn't happen to the next person. Of course, you'll be dead, but we're really focused on keeping MOST of our plains in the air...
 
...The great and powerful .gov will zap all criminal tendencies from everyone's mind and people will live in peaceful Communist bliss.
I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but it is a sorry (and legitimately frightening) state of affairs when the sheeple truly believe this sentiment, and they compartmentalize the fact that some in government are criminals themselves. R-r-r-r-ight over their heads.
 
How many times does it need to be spelled out? The police are NOT your personal body guards.

They are not the US Cavalry that is going to ride in en masse just before the Indians or bad guys are going to attack.

They are not Superman who will bust through the wall of the house and put himself in front of the speeding bullet and deflect it just in time.

You are responsible for your own life. Not the Tooth Fairy, Smokey the Bear, The police, the government, or anybody else..
It's your life, it's up to you.
 
The police have said, in no uncertain terms, in legal speak and in plain English, through their actions and throughout their recent history, that they have NO AFFIRMATIVE DUTY to protect you. That is, they are not planning to and will not be blamed for not, protecting you. You are on your own. They couldn't be more plain about that. If you carefully consider the roots of the "LEO as Protector" myth, you'll likely find it comes from your parents and not officer friendly.

So...now that you know that it's "just you." It always was, so you shouldn't feel too scared. Learn to shoot. Buy a gun. There now, don't you feel a bit better? Sure, not as safe as you did when you were living in a fantasy of omnipotent state security...but better.

In the end it's that "the police will protect me" misconception that is responsible for so many deaths each year.
Unfortunately the politicians don't understand that. The police say "you're on your own" and you say get a gun. Super! Great! I'm a strong believer in standing on your own two feet. But the politicians say" We're taking your guns and telling you to rely on the police". WTF? :(
 
Unfortunately the politicians don't understand that. The police say "you're on your own" and you say get a gun. Super! Great! I'm a strong believer in standing on your own two feet. But the politicians say" We're taking your guns and telling you to rely on the police". WTF? :(

Ignore them.

Really.

Ignore them.

Yes I know that MA is a horribly restrictive (and vindictive) state. Yes, the rules are slanted against you. Yes, you expose yourself to obscene penalties if you use your firearm even lawfully.

That said, the reason you carry a firearm is to prevent someone from taking your life or that of someone you love dearly. Either:

A. If you don't act you or your family member/s will die, in which case who cares what comes after? At least you'll be around.

B. It's not a life threatening situation. In which case, get out of their asap.

The bottom line is that everything else is just noise. Noise, noise, noise. Look, everyone wants you to feel fear. The state wants you to fear them so that you'll pay taxes and obey their dictates unquestioningly. The criminals want you to be afraid so that you won't resist them. I simply refuse to buy into the fear game.
 
Ignore them.

Really.

Ignore them.

Yes I know that MA is a horribly restrictive (and vindictive) state. Yes, the rules are slanted against you. Yes, you expose yourself to obscene penalties if you use your firearm even lawfully.

That said, the reason you carry a firearm is to prevent someone from taking your life or that of someone you love dearly. Either:

A. If you don't act you or your family member/s will die, in which case who cares what comes after? At least you'll be around.

B. It's not a life threatening situation. In which case, get out of their asap.

The bottom line is that everything else is just noise. Noise, noise, noise. Look, everyone wants you to feel fear. The state wants you to fear them so that you'll pay taxes and obey their dictates unquestioningly. The criminals want you to be afraid so that you won't resist them. I simply refuse to buy into the fear game.


This ties in with a discussion I was having the other day. The problem is - exactly as you point out - we live in fear of the state. It's supposed to be the other way around. THAT is the purpose of the 2nd Ammendment. This country was founded by men who feared a strong, autocratic government and so built a clause into it's governing document giving the people the means to defend themselves against all comers - INCLUDING their own government. The intent was to give the government a reason to fear the PEOPLE. That's a very good thing. Keeps 'em honest. Is it any wonder why they've been trying to take that away for 200 years?
 
This ties in with a discussion I was having the other day. The problem is - exactly as you point out - we live in fear of the state. It's supposed to be the other way around. THAT is the purpose of the 2nd Ammendment. This country was founded by men who feared a strong, autocratic government and so built a clause into it's governing document giving the people the means to defend themselves against all comers - INCLUDING their own government. The intent was to give the government a reason to fear the PEOPLE. That's a very good thing. Keeps 'em honest. Is it any wonder why they've been trying to take that away for 200 years?

Great follow up. I love it when people actually follow up on a post with additional content and perspective rather than just re-stating the op. Well said.
 
Reminds me of Kitty Genovese many years ago.

Had me a GF in NYC with an apartment in the Village in the early 80s - a bit of a radical femminist sort. One night we hear a series of frightful female screams - then silence. She says we should call the cops, then decides we shouldn't get involved - the New Yorker in her won out over the femminist.

As a good Iowa boy, I called the cops and get put on hold twice before giving up.

Woke this Iowa boy up... [hmmm]
 
The police are there to protect you.

That's great. So when do we get the service like they have in Minority Report where the police show up at the last second to stop the murderer?
 
Unfortunately the politicians don't understand that. The police say "you're on your own" and you say get a gun. Super! Great! I'm a strong believer in standing on your own two feet. But the politicians say" We're taking your guns and telling you to rely on the police". WTF? :(

I really like this viewpoint because I think that for the most part its the definition of just what is going on when it comes to: Self defense, Self reliance, and Self survival. The people are told from grade school up and then pass on the story to their children that the Officer, Congressman, Government, or whatever other entity as desired, will take care of them and their needs.

The harsh reality is that those entities are the only ones that understand: Self defense, Self reliance, and Self survival.

Its up to you in the long run to ensure your own versions of Self defense, Self reliance, and Self survival.

eta: my 3s' could also be interpreted differently. [smile] Unintended...but somewhat on point.
 
It is a godamn good thing I have a family, because if I didnt I would certainly become the punisher......cool t-shirt and all. Id drive a cool car with a tow behind wood chipper....ya you know you want to! Im getting really sick and tired of hearing about this kind of crap. Its bad enough Im short fat and bald now that Im angry people are starting to mistake me for danny devito!
 
This is obviously a huge tragedy and my thoughts are prayers are with her friends and family.

The Supreme Court has recently affirmed the fact that the police have NO DUTY to protect citizens... that's right, NO DUTY to protect citizens. You should never rely on them to help. At best, they will investigate the crime after the fact. Ironically, this girl would have stood a better chance if attacked in the open on the street.

A big reason I became a gun owner is to protect my family in my home, because I know nobody else is going to do it for me. A choice between my wonderful family getting hurt, or worse or a random bad buy is NO CHOICE AT ALL.
 
That's great. So when do we get the service like they have in Minority Report where the police show up at the last second to stop the murderer?

When the police have jet packs and can see the future, dah![rolleyes]

I would really love to see a reporter ask a politician why we should not own guns if the police have no 'duty to protect'.
 
Have you ever called 911 from a cell phone? I have a few times, usually 1-3 minutes before you are on the line with a human being.
 
It is a godamn good thing I have a family, because if I didnt I would certainly become the punisher......cool t-shirt and all. Id drive a cool car with a tow behind wood chipper....ya you know you want to! Im getting really sick and tired of hearing about this kind of crap. Its bad enough Im short fat and bald now that Im angry people are starting to mistake me for danny devito!
Oh great! Now how am I supposed to get this image out of my head??:

DevitoPunisher.jpg
 
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