AMA calls for gun control , bans and confiscation

[Uzi2]

My reply to any doctor that might ever ask or bring up the subject of guns:

Hey doc, treat me for what I came here for and leave YOUR politics and political opinions out of the conversation. I'm paying for medical advice and treatment, not your politicized opinion on whether or not I may enjoy my constitutionally protected natural rights.

So far, I've never had a doctor ever bring up the subject of guns. The day I ever encounter one, will be the last time I enter their office.

 

[Dadstoys]

I'll just leave this right here.
Clean your own house first and then worry about mine.

 

[NHCraigT]

What is that?

An AMA group doctors photo??

 

[timbo]

Interesting when you consider that medical mistakes are the third leading cause of death in this country. Maybe we should ban certain high risk doctors and hospitals.

Winner winner...chicken dinner. You win the brass ring!

 

[enbloc]

What is that?

More importantly, what are they doing to that poor guy with his cheeks in the dirt...?

 

[OCB]

... We walked out and never returned...

I would probably do the same thing. My only question would be about getting medical records. I assume the Drs office is required to provide you with a copy of all records if you request them, but I've already been wrong once today...

 

[Varmint]

In response to the group's new positions, the National Rifle Association said the AMA is playing politics and should focus on its core mission rather than advocating for gun control.

"The AMA's stated vision is ‘to enhance the delivery of care' and ‘partner with patients to achieve better health,'" Chris Cox, head of the gun-rights group's Institute for Legislative Action, told the Washington Free Beacon. "They should focus their efforts on the 250,000 deaths due to medical errors, the medical community's complicity in the opioid crisis that takes 42,000 lives per year or the mental health crisis that results in nearly 50,000 suicides per year. The AMA should return to focusing on medical care and stop engaging in gun-control politics."

Ouch, that had to hurt, lol.

 

[bill o]

And this:
https://www.jhsph.edu/research/cent...care-policy-center/Publications_PDFs/A154.pdf

The purpose of that article is to call for higher taxes and single-provider government healthcare. It's not saying what you think it says.

 

[bill o]

I agree with you

BUT

The AMA is made up mostly of lawyers and physicians that haven't touched a patient in decades. They certainly don't speak on behalf of practicing physicians which is why other groups have been formed instead.

Yup, and AMA is on a continued decline, something like 20% of doctors now.

 

[Zappa]

Maybe the NRA should start putting medical information in its magazines. You know like - "Don't bother going to the doctor, here's how you give yourself sutures".

Actually, that could be some highly valuable survival information for when the shite really hits the fan^

 

[Boston4567]

"Public health" means doctors misusing their medical degrees to push their statist political views on the public under false pretenses. Bloomberg used it to try to ban soda, the bicyclist/pedestrian/safety lobby uses it to push for automated ticketing machines, and it's been used to justify some of the worst human rights abuses in human history (Nazi eugenics, for example).

The entire enterprise is patently fraudulent and should be defunded, except for communicable diseases.

 

[GM-GUY]

Actually, that could be some highly valuable survival information for when the shite really hits the fan^

I own two surgical staplers / easier than sutures.

 

[AverageJoe]

The purpose of that article is to call for higher taxes and single-provider government healthcare. It's not saying what you think it says.

Bill, it doesn’t say that medical care results in at least 225,000 preventable deaths each year in the US? Because that’s what I thought it said, maybe you can show me where it doesn’t say that?

 

[EC1]

How about the AMA members be held criminally responsible for misdiagnoses and unnecessary or botched procedures? After all, from the .gov numbers, something like hospital mistakes are on the order of >200K/year.

 

[AverageJoe]

"Public health" means doctors misusing their medical degrees to push their statist political views on the public under false pretenses. Bloomberg used it to try to ban soda, the bicyclist/pedestrian/safety lobby uses it to push for automated ticketing machines, and it's been used to justify some of the worst human rights abuses in human history (Nazi eugenics, for example).

The entire enterprise is patently fraudulent and should be defunded, except for communicable diseases.

Most if not all improvements in both infection rate and death rate from infectious diseases have come from advances in plumbing, nutrition, less crowded living conditions. Pharma has tried to take credit for something it had a much smaller impact on than we have been socially engineered to believe.

 

[drgrant]

"Public health" means doctors misusing their medical degrees to push their statist political views on the public under false pretenses. Bloomberg used it to try to ban soda, the bicyclist/pedestrian/safety lobby uses it to push for automated ticketing machines, and it's been used to justify some of the worst human rights abuses in human history (Nazi eugenics, for example).

The entire enterprise is patently fraudulent and should be defunded, except for communicable diseases.

+1...

If they ain't talking about sanitation, bed bugs, cholera, or bad water, shit like that, then they need to f*** off with this "public health" bullshit. Whether you wear a seatbelt, use a helmet, own a gun, or not, should be none of their f***ing business. Those aren't "public health" issues.

I honestly think AMA is expanding this because they can say they are "hiring more doctors" but they want this bullshit to have an avenue for rich kids who finish
med school but still suck too much to be an actual doctor... "oh, go into public health".

-Mike

 

[bill o]

Bill, it doesn’t say that medical care results in at least 225,000 preventable deaths each year in the US? Because that’s what I thought it said, maybe you can show me where it doesn’t say that?

It does say that, and it's wrong. The Makary and Daniel study is weak and should have been rejected by the journal. Medical error is a serious problem but their back of the envelope extrapolation overstates the incidence by probably an order of magnitude. It's just not plausible that 1/3 of in-hospital deaths are caused by medical error.

 

[namedpipes]

It does say that, and it's wrong. The Makary and Daniel study is weak and should have been rejected by the journal. Medical error is a serious problem but their back of the envelope extrapolation overstates the incidence by probably an order of magnitude. It's just not plausible that 1/3 of in-hospital deaths are caused by medical error.

If it's wrong by a factor of ten then the numbers STILL exceed all deaths caused using a firearm, so there's that.

And even if it is wrong, it's not wrong by a factor of ten.

 

[AverageJoe]

It does say that, and it's wrong. The Makary and Daniel study is weak and should have been rejected by the journal. Medical error is a serious problem but their back of the envelope extrapolation overstates the incidence by probably an order of magnitude. It's just not plausible that 1/3 of in-hospital deaths are caused by medical error.

Thanks for sharing your opinion Bill. Something tells me you have a conflict of interest on this subject and are either unable or unwilling to accept data that contradicts your financial position.

 

[yanquidog]

Dr are responsible for up to 250000 deaths a year. Maybe the AMA should look in the mirror.

Gotta deflect

 

[308rifleman]

I would probably do the same thing. My only question would be about getting medical records. I assume the Drs office is required to provide you with a copy of all records if you request them, but I've already been wrong once today...

We have the vaccination records which are all current for both girls. That is what schools require for admittance. Besides, the current records have already been tainted. Who knows what that doctor and her NP wrote in our daughters' medical records. Nothing complimentary about me, that's for sure!

 

[bill o]

Thanks for sharing your opinion Bill. Something tells me you have a conflict of interest on this subject and are either unable or unwilling to accept data that contradicts your financial position.

No financial conflict for me.

 

[Boston4567]

It does say that, and it's wrong. The Makary and Daniel study is weak and should have been rejected by the journal. Medical error is a serious problem but their back of the envelope extrapolation overstates the incidence by probably an order of magnitude. It's just not plausible that 1/3 of in-hospital deaths are caused by medical error.

If that's just hospital deaths, maybe. But hospital deaths are a drop in the bucket. Our primary care system in this country is basically a cottage industry of highly-educated but overly self-assured medical professionals with God complexes, and that causes far more deaths than hospital errors. Just not acutely or immediately.

The difference between an engineer and a doctor is, if you ask an engineer a question, he'll say "let me look into it and get back to you." Then he'll research it in depth and get back to you, with a list of potential solutions and recommendations, and all the potential caveats, risks, and relevant considerations. With doctors, they come up with an answer on the spot, suggest drugs almost arbitrarily, don't give you options or explain their reasoning and the risks, and place an inordinate amount of weight on the patient's emotional considerations.

All too often I and people I know have a doctor recommend something, then go home and do some research, and go back to the doctor. When you ask them about side effect and safety profiles, efficacy, and alternatives, in my experience they basically never have a good answer for why they made the recommendation they did or why they didn't give you the other options in the first place. There's hard data out there about what's the most effective treatment for a particular malady, yet if you ask 10 doctors you'll get 10 different answers. This stuff kills way more people than hospital errors.

 

[bill o]

If that's just hospital deaths, maybe. But hospital deaths are a drop in the bucket. Our primary care system in this country is basically a cottage industry of highly-educated but overly self-assured medical professionals with God complexes, and that causes far more deaths than hospital errors. Just not acutely or immediately.

The difference between an engineer and a doctor is, if you ask an engineer a question, he'll say "let me look into it and get back to you." Then he'll research it in depth and get back to you, with a list of potential solutions and recommendations, and all the potential caveats, risks, and relevant considerations. With doctors, they come up with an answer on the spot, suggest drugs almost arbitrarily, don't give you options or explain their reasoning and the risks, and place an inordinate amount of weight on the patient's emotional considerations.

All too often I and people I know have a doctor recommend something, then go home and do some research, and go back to the doctor. When you ask them about side effect and safety profiles, efficacy, and alternatives, in my experience they basically never have a good answer for why they made the recommendation they did or why they didn't give you the other options in the first place. There's hard data out there about what's the most effective treatment for a particular malady, yet if you ask 10 doctors you'll get 10 different answers. This stuff kills way more people than hospital errors.

All valid complaints. What are the solutions and how much more are you willing to pay? I don't know what the answer is. I'd sooner try fixing an apache helicopter than redesign the entire healthcare delivery system and medical culture.

 

[namedpipes]

All valid complaints. What are the solutions and how much more are you willing to pay? I don't know what the answer is. I'd sooner try fixing an apache helicopter than redesign the entire healthcare delivery system and medical culture.

bah. That's easy.

Simply require full disclosure.

Have you got any IDEA how many illegals are in this country that have degrees back home? Perfectly qualified to practice medicine (or whatever) back home but not here.

Allow them to work, so long as they accurately convey their background and credentials.

You SHOULD be able to see a witch doctor if you so choose, as long as you KNOW he's a witch doctor.

There would shortly be NO shortage of affordable health care.

 

[jhblaze1]

Wife and I got the big lecture from both the pediatrician and her nurse practitioner when we brought the girls in for their routine checkup. When asked whether there were guns in the house, little Jill said yes. Dad has these really huge guns! Great. Doctor took notes, gave the files to the NP who added her own writing and then we were told to get rid of the guns. It is irresponsible and very dangerous to have guns in a home with children, the whole load of guano. I told her that the two pump action shotguns and the two bolt action rifles that we do own are kept in a secure small arms locker, out of reach of the kids. Still not good enough. We walked out and never returned. On the way home, little Jill was told to keep quiet about what we have at home and the rest of our personal business.

I would have told her to go f*** herself and got up and left. I have 0 tolerance for that crap, but have never actually come across it.

I told my wife that "I'm not here to discuss that, let's stick to biology" is to be her answer if ever asked. I told her I'll be absolutely furious if I find out she told some retard doctor what I own.

 

[Boston4567]

All valid complaints. What are the solutions and how much more are you willing to pay? I don't know what the answer is. I'd sooner try fixing an apache helicopter than redesign the entire healthcare delivery system and medical culture.

I wouldn't dare to think I have all the solutions. But I think doctors do they jobs poorly because they're overeducated for the work they do; I trust my nurse practitioner far more than my doctor. So reform of scope of practice laws has potential.

 

[AverageJoe]

If that's just hospital deaths, maybe. But hospital deaths are a drop in the bucket. Our primary care system in this country is basically a cottage industry of highly-educated but overly self-assured medical professionals with God complexes, and that causes far more deaths than hospital errors. Just not acutely or immediately.

The difference between an engineer and a doctor is, if you ask an engineer a question, he'll say "let me look into it and get back to you." Then he'll research it in depth and get back to you, with a list of potential solutions and recommendations, and all the potential caveats, risks, and relevant considerations. With doctors, they come up with an answer on the spot, suggest drugs almost arbitrarily, don't give you options or explain their reasoning and the risks, and place an inordinate

All valid complaints. What are the solutions and how much more are you willing to pay? I don't know what the answer is. I'd sooner try fixing an apache helicopter than redesign the entire healthcare delivery system and medical culture.

A workable solution could have been free market health care, but with our current privately owned money system and the levels of the government involvement in medical care make this impossible.

 

[Paul455]

2,600 Americans die everyday from tobacco and alcohol.

Add in another 800,000 deaths per year from medical errors.

These people need to focus on MEDICAL issues and policies, not guns.

Talk about living in a glass house.

 

[seanc]

I call for every member of the AMA’s malpractise insurance to quintuple and for every member to have to take their board exams every 4 years.