This clown's "armed march" would go over with the general public as well as the Iron Workers Union did, blocking traffic in Boston during rush hour! Just what the 2A rights movement needs. The democrats would fall all over themselves with new "reasonable" legislation to "save the children" from the "wild eyed raving gun nuts".
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Adam Kokesh Calls for Peaceful Open Carry March July 4th from Virginia to D.C.
- Thread starter KiloVictorTango
- Start date
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namedpipes
NES Member
Is anything else REALLY working?
It will happen or it won't.
It will go well or poorly.
It will have a beneficial effect on 2A, no effect or make things worse.
But in the final analysis, at least somebody is trying something.
Godspeed.
Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.
So true. This administration will do whatever they can to disarm us. Best case scenario this either wakes up the populaceand/or puts some fear in the politicians. Worst case scenario they get massacred in the bridge and that's all. If they get massacred in the bridge and .gov pushes for immediate gun ban well then hopefully this wakes up the populace to see the .gov for what they really are. So far they've chipped away our rights quietly by boiling the frog, if this event throws the frog into boiling water well I guess patriots died for a cause they believed in, and hopefully not in vain.
Dench
NES Member
They got him for resisting arrest, which as we all know these days often means you did not actualy resist arrest. If Kokesh was resistign arrest, he would not of ended up standing in cuffs at the end.
The guy is shredded out of his mind, if he's resisting, the police are going to have to ruff his suit up a little more than that.
Another victory for the police state. You've been arrested for a victim less crime, now go to jail.
Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
if I was a betting man, I'd bet that pretty soon gestapo will "discover" that he is 1.rapist 2. mentally defective 3. pedo 4. all of the above to discredit him. just saying ...
Jsfitzgerald85
NES Member
no doubt, similar to the video maker after Benghazi
If that's the case then the march definitely needs to happen. It becomes about way more than the second amendment at that point.
Pro liberty people really need to unite to stop the ebb of tyranny we are facing.
Dench
NES Member
I think the (L) movement does a lot of damage to itself with it's association and support to Bradley Manning. I am an anti war (L) veteran who has no patience at all for what he did.
The reason why I don't support Manning is because he released information that he was
A: not authorized to do so (if it was legit war crimes, it wouldnt matter if it was authorized or not as it would of been an unlawful order to conceal it)
B: the information contained no information that would of had a positive outcome for anyone
C: it was already widely known that the US mil was either accidentally or/and intentionally killing civilians, which is still on going almost 12 years later in Afghanistan
It's sorta like Manning gave out a bunch of shit that everyone already knew and people think hes a hero for doing that. I don't see how you expect a pass leaking known information about known issues as if being a whistle blower on already known and on going problems is going to get you a pass.
Illegal war or not (Iraq is illegal to me), selling out the people you are supposed to be trying to stay alive with over asinine and stupid information is not exactly my definition of worth it.
on top of that, I don't even think the helicopter footage he leaked was even worth mentioning. fog of war was written all over that video. it wasn't like the Apache gunner hit a school yard with kids on swings with 30mm or some shit. it was a bunch of *******s on the ground acting suspicious in a hot area. duh.
War is tough shit. It's not limp wisted running around with squirt guns in the back yard. Bad things are going to happen. people are going to get hurt by accident a lot. people are going to be poorly ID'd by scared soldiers.
But I'll tell you one thing. The shit that the US is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is not 1/10th the level of bad that the Soviets did to Afghanistan in the 80's, or it's own people in the Chechen wars in the 90's. The stuff that the US is doing wrong is mostly due to negligence and evil leadership. The shit the Soviets and Russians did was out of evil spite and revenge.
The anti war crowd has a lot of trouble putting this is perspective. Most of the anti crowd has never been in the .mil, and has zero idea the amount of stress involved, which leads to poor decisions and violent over reactions. What I do is weigh what is going on. I think what mostly went on in Iraq and Afghanistan is on the "acceptable" (if there was such a thing) side of damage that was not needed. Unacceptable examples can be pulled from the Soviets: bayoneting of babies, throwing people out of helicopters, continuously bombing the wrong villages, going into the incorrectly wrong village to kill survivors to avoid witnesses, etc. That is on the other end of the spectrum. People need to realize this. When you have war, you're going to have problems. The key is to minimize this type of problem, as it is simply unavoidable.
Our .mil is in a really bad position right now with these wars. It is the civilian leadership and high ranking officers that are the problem, not anyone lower than that. Pegging the blame on minion level soldiers, and having other minion level soldiers try to whistle blow on retarded and known information isn't helping anyone. if the US voter based cared, which they don't, they would have us withdraw fully from Iraq and Afghanistan. But that's just the thing. The (R)'s and the (D)'s can't get enough of it.
Does Manning need to be punished? Sure. Does it need to be draconian? No. This is another example of little to no people in the middle of the issue. One side wants the guy released with a pat on the back for a good job, and the other side wants this clown to be executed for treason. I say throw the guy into some work camp for 5 years, give him a dishonorable discharge and see you later.
The reason why I don't support Manning is because he released information that he was
A: not authorized to do so (if it was legit war crimes, it wouldnt matter if it was authorized or not as it would of been an unlawful order to conceal it)
B: the information contained no information that would of had a positive outcome for anyone
C: it was already widely known that the US mil was either accidentally or/and intentionally killing civilians, which is still on going almost 12 years later in Afghanistan
It's sorta like Manning gave out a bunch of shit that everyone already knew and people think hes a hero for doing that. I don't see how you expect a pass leaking known information about known issues as if being a whistle blower on already known and on going problems is going to get you a pass.
Illegal war or not (Iraq is illegal to me), selling out the people you are supposed to be trying to stay alive with over asinine and stupid information is not exactly my definition of worth it.
on top of that, I don't even think the helicopter footage he leaked was even worth mentioning. fog of war was written all over that video. it wasn't like the Apache gunner hit a school yard with kids on swings with 30mm or some shit. it was a bunch of *******s on the ground acting suspicious in a hot area. duh.
War is tough shit. It's not limp wisted running around with squirt guns in the back yard. Bad things are going to happen. people are going to get hurt by accident a lot. people are going to be poorly ID'd by scared soldiers.
But I'll tell you one thing. The shit that the US is doing in Afghanistan and Iraq is not 1/10th the level of bad that the Soviets did to Afghanistan in the 80's, or it's own people in the Chechen wars in the 90's. The stuff that the US is doing wrong is mostly due to negligence and evil leadership. The shit the Soviets and Russians did was out of evil spite and revenge.
The anti war crowd has a lot of trouble putting this is perspective. Most of the anti crowd has never been in the .mil, and has zero idea the amount of stress involved, which leads to poor decisions and violent over reactions. What I do is weigh what is going on. I think what mostly went on in Iraq and Afghanistan is on the "acceptable" (if there was such a thing) side of damage that was not needed. Unacceptable examples can be pulled from the Soviets: bayoneting of babies, throwing people out of helicopters, continuously bombing the wrong villages, going into the incorrectly wrong village to kill survivors to avoid witnesses, etc. That is on the other end of the spectrum. People need to realize this. When you have war, you're going to have problems. The key is to minimize this type of problem, as it is simply unavoidable.
Our .mil is in a really bad position right now with these wars. It is the civilian leadership and high ranking officers that are the problem, not anyone lower than that. Pegging the blame on minion level soldiers, and having other minion level soldiers try to whistle blow on retarded and known information isn't helping anyone. if the US voter based cared, which they don't, they would have us withdraw fully from Iraq and Afghanistan. But that's just the thing. The (R)'s and the (D)'s can't get enough of it.
Does Manning need to be punished? Sure. Does it need to be draconian? No. This is another example of little to no people in the middle of the issue. One side wants the guy released with a pat on the back for a good job, and the other side wants this clown to be executed for treason. I say throw the guy into some work camp for 5 years, give him a dishonorable discharge and see you later.
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Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
EPIC FAIL. Watch CNN propaganda much? Here are a few points:
Jimmy ****ing Carter paid USD cash for physical heads of Soviet soldiers in Pakistan markets. Soviets or not, that's ****ed up.
while Soviets were looking for some compromise, later on, US congress pumped billions in arms aid, because leadership sensed weakness. Who were these friends of US, the "freedom fighters":
insane tribal lords who wanted to keep their country in the stone age, blew up women who wanted to get education.
homicidal Paki leadership who were allowed to get nukes in exchange for bases and training camps to train goat ****ers how to use pressure cookers to blow their country men.
... does that ring a ****ing bell?
... and Chechen shit ...
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
If you watched one of the videos, one of the officers attempts to body slam Kokesh. Kokesh keeps his balance.
Maybe by trying to keep your balance when being man-handled so you don't suffer further bodily injury is now "resisting arrest"?
Dench
NES Member
EPIC FAIL. Watch CNN propaganda much? Here are a few points:
Jimmy ****ing Carter paid USD cash for physical heads of Soviet soldiers in Pakistan markets. Soviets or not, that's ****ed up.
while Soviets were looking for some compromise, later on, US congress pumped billions in arms aid, because leadership sensed weakness. Who were these friends of US, the "freedom fighters":
insane tribal lords who wanted to keep their country in the stone age, blew up women who wanted to get education.
homicidal Paki leadership who were allowed to get nukes in exchange for bases and training camps to train goat ****ers how to use pressure cookers to blow their country men.
... does that ring a ****ing bell?
... and Chechen shit ...
I wasn't talking about US interference in the conflict. I was talking about 1st hand reports by Soviet soldiers on the ground to use as an example of problematic .mil behavior to what is now currently perceived as "problematic" behavior.. Here's the book I took my examples out of:
The Great Gamble: The Soviet War in Afghanistan: Gregory Feifer, Robertson Dean: Amazon.com: Books
The book specifically mentions sadistic behavior, cover ups and literally mentions the bayoneting of babies as a major reason for PTSD issues in demobilized soldiers. The author of the book drew parallels to Soviet behavior in Afghanistan to Russian behavior in both Chechen wars. Nothing I spoke of came from CNN or any other main stream media source.
I wasn't taking sides in my post. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was wrong, the US aid to the rebels was wrong and the US invasion of Afghanistan was wrong.
When the US .mil acts unprofessionally, history has shown that it is not nearly as out of control as the Soviet .mil got.
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Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
have you met these soldiers you speak of? have you shared a drink of vodka with them or perhaps a joint? I have. Some even related. Let me just say this, when you strip uniforms you will find a whole lot of Denches in the ranks of SU, a whole lot of same guys you drink in a bar with. Are some sadistic maniacs? May be a few, but those are exceptions (kind of like cops
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
)In both Afgan and Chechnya, the islamic savages don't think twice about rape, boobytrapping child's toy or cutting nose/ears from their hostages. This was never a norm in either Russia or US, not now, not back then. It's still the norm there. **** them.
Amin was Stalin's fanboy, here never thought twice about shooting his top ministers. Before Soviets stepped into Afgan, he already purged a whole shitload of people in a typical barbaric fashion. He wanted to build communism in 5 years which shocked even Soviet brass.
Dench
NES Member
have you met these soldiers you speak of? have you shared a drink of vodka with them or perhaps a joint? I have. Some even related. Let me just say this, when you strip uniforms you will find a whole lot of Denches in the ranks of SU, a whole lot of same guys you drink in a bar with. Are some sadistic maniacs? May be a few, but those are exceptions (kind of like cops
In both Afgan and Chechnya, the islamic savages don't think twice about rape, boobytrapping child's toy or cutting nose/ears from their hostages. This was never a norm in either Russia or US, not now, not back then. It's still the norm there. **** them.
Amin was Stalin's fanboy, here never thought twice about shooting his top ministers. Before Soviets stepped into Afgan, he already purged a whole shitload of people in a typical barbaric fashion. He wanted to build communism in 5 years which shocked even Soviet brass.
Nothing to do with what I'm talking about
I would like to agree with you 100% on this; but, that little ****er is responsible for one huge stain on the reputation of my unit and those who deployed with me. I'd personally love to **** him up in the worst way. I know it's not right; but, I can't help wanting him to suffer. Guess it makes me a hypocrite.
With exceptions; but, they are by and far fewer than most other militaries around the world. There are a few examples of some truly evil BS in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam. Combat, fear, and grief turn men into monsters; and, our shit sure doesn't smell much better than anyone else's.
Dench
NES Member
Naw, it just puts you on one of the ends of the spectrum. Like I said, one side wants the guy dead, and the other side wants him freed as a hero. It's a very polarizing issue that I never got sucked into. I suspect most vets would want to see him suffer or dead. While, most non vet (L)'s see him as some freedom fighter.
I think hes a piece of shit opportunist that was disgruntle and looking to be important at whatever cost.
Without a doubt our .mil has it's monsters, but that isnt really my point since every .mil is going to run into that problem. like i said earlier, its how you manage the craziness that counts. Boris said it himself "**** them." That, in my opinion, is why the Soviet's and Russians are so brutal in war. They are all or nothing, have zero patience and had major problems in the past with poorly disciplined conscripts. The Russian .mil to this day looks ate up beyond belief short of parade units. Their behavior matches that.
People who walk around thinking war is this black and white thing with no error or problems are clueless. The key is minimizing out of control behavior that is unlawful in war.
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Boris
Son of Kalashnikov
Cold War is over, bro, those "conscripts" are actually less so than those who were "drafted" to 'nam, because they had to "volunteer" and be in top phys. shape. See if you can find a single "conscript" wearing glasses. The training for Afgan recruits sucked big time too. They didn't have farmer boy running around with Mosins
We need to have a beer sometime.I am pissed off with these savages but I won't bayonet any babies, at least I don't think that I would.
Dench
NES Member
Cold War is over, bro, those "conscripts" are actually less so than those who were "drafted" to 'nam, because they had to "volunteer" and be in top phys. shape. See if you can find a single "conscript" wearing glasses. The training for Afgan recruits sucked big time too. They didn't have farmer boy running around with Mosins
I am pissed off with these savages but I won't bayonet any babies, at least I don't think that I would.
I'm not implying that all Soviets, most Soviets or half Soviets were bayoneting babies. I just saying it happened, and it went unpunished.
America's worse war in regards to that was Vietnam, where we had a similar problem of retarded "go to jail or go in the .mil" criminal draftees cutting peoples body parts off, killing kids and burning villages down and also other various misc whackjobs who were running around with little supervision being maniacs. The main differences are in my opinion was it was far more taboo in the US .mil than it was in the Soviet, and Soviet army units would often work at high levels to cover up mistakes via killing witnesses.
It was just more common with the Soviets, that's all I'm saying.
Epic thread drift. I love it.
Either Manning did something wrong by disseminating footage of "American" service personnel killing unarmed media reporters in Baghdad OR, as some of the apologists say, they were armed Iraqi hostiles and were rightfully engaged.
Pick one of the scenarios and stick with it.
If the video was the targeting and killing of actual hostiles then what did he do wrong?
Either Manning did something wrong by disseminating footage of "American" service personnel killing unarmed media reporters in Baghdad OR, as some of the apologists say, they were armed Iraqi hostiles and were rightfully engaged.
Pick one of the scenarios and stick with it.
If the video was the targeting and killing of actual hostiles then what did he do wrong?
Dench
NES Member
wait, people think that men in that group did not have weapons? last time I saw it most of the group had weapons and 2 of them were journalists with camera with long lenses.
30mm from 1km+ away isnt really going to be able to set those guys apart, even if it was identifiable.
I consider myself pro-peace as opposed to anti-war. There's a subtle but important difference.
IMHO, we should be using our armed resources more judiciously. Instead, our government sends our brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, sons and daughters into these unwinnable quagmires that we really have no business being involved in. Was action in Afghanistan justified? I think so. Is our mission complete? Yes, we've annihilated AQ and killed bin Laden.
Time to back-up and head home.
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And does it really justify engaging them even if they had weapons? In other words, maybe they had rifles for defensive uses, like maybe if some foreign invader decided to you know, invade and occupy their turf?
Dench
NES Member
Sure, the US without a doubt was the invading force, and maybe the guys that got hosed were locals on a defensive patrol. It didn't work out for them.
If our .gov negligently puts our .mil into a meat grinder, I'm not going to stick around and let our .mil get chewed apart by local freedom fighters. Just because the mission was 100% retarded doesn't mean I don't support direct and immediate action in the vicinity of ground troops, which was the case in the video.
Those people A: were looking for a fight ("bad guys") or B: were to stupid to lay low ("retarded community patrol")
I thought it time for "some ... perspective..." -Anton Ego
To be clear (to DHS and everyone else), I don't think a peaceful OC march (as planned with provision for turning back if so ordered) into DC is the most effective use of resources to accomplish this end. I think we have not exhausted the avenues to petition the King and in fact we are making important progress in doing so via legal means.
However, to those getting their panties in an epic bunch both inside and outside .gov about this protest, I am going to leave this here:
Some quick photos of the Minuteman National Park:
To be clear (to DHS and everyone else), I don't think a peaceful OC march (as planned with provision for turning back if so ordered) into DC is the most effective use of resources to accomplish this end. I think we have not exhausted the avenues to petition the King and in fact we are making important progress in doing so via legal means.
However, to those getting their panties in an epic bunch both inside and outside .gov about this protest, I am going to leave this here:
Some quick photos of the Minuteman National Park:
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
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