Acceptable Powder charge ranges

[Maj. Boom Boom]

Let me start by saying i am talking about reloading 12 ga shells.

I'm new at reloading, in fact I haven't loaded any shells yet. I have the equipment, books (read quite a bit but not everything yet) and all the supplies except the shot, which i am working on.

So today I decided to de-prime all the shells i have gathered and check what my powder bushing was actually throwing. I have a MEC 600 jr. with a 33 bushing and using red dot through a connected powder baffle.

while checking the thrown powder on the scale (I did 60 test throws) I noticed i was getting different weights, not much, but different. So my question is what is a reasonable thrown range when reloading?

For the recipe I will be loading it lists red dot with 19.5 charge. The data list the MEC 33 bushing with red dot as throwing 19.9 which is .4 over what the charge calls for. which is why i decided to check the actual powder thrown.

the range i got with the 60 samples was 18.8 to 19.6 with the majority between 19.0 and 19.4 see the actual numbers below. Is this range acceptable? I know you are not supposed to go over the stated recipe, so would the occasional .1 overage (with a 19.6 change) be a big deal? I guess my concern comes from the range i am getting and the fact that being new at this i don't have a feel for how much a .1 difference really is. Some of the differences i am sure are from me and not sliding the charge bar at the same rate/speed/smoothness.

Here are the numbers and thanks for the help guys.

18.8 x 2
19.0 x 11
19.2 x 25
19.4 x 13
19.6 x 9

19.0
19.0
18.8
19.0
18.8
19.0
19.4
19.4
19.6
19.6
19.2
19.6
19.6
19.6
19.6
19.4
19.4
19.2
19.4
19.2
19.4
19.4
19.6
19.2
19.6
19.4
19.4
19.2
19.6
19.4
19.4
19.2
19.2
19.0
19.2
19.4
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.0
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.4
19.2
19.2
19.0
19.0
19.0
19.2
19.0
19.2
19.2
19.2
19.0
19.2
19.2

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Your powder bushing should be able to hold +/- .1 grains. However, it's a percentage that the accuracy holds to, and that also varies by powder. Some meter better than others.

With shotshells, you have to go by the exact recipe. Pressures spike wildly, and can cause dangerous issues.

Your weights are all over the place.

Several factors determine how much weight:

• You need to add powder to the powder dispenser, and then.....
• You need to settle the powder by tapping on the powder measure. That will make the density of the powder the same through the column. If you skip this step, the powder charges will be increasingly heavier and heavier, with some being too light, which is what I see in your chart of weights. So, tap on the powder measure with your fingers for a few minutes before running any weight tests.
• Your motions when running the press have to be consistent in order to achieve a proper filling of the bushing every time. If you're too gentle, not enough powder will fall into the bushing. If you are too rough, too much will pack into the bushing. Only by being consistent in the pulling of the handle will you achieve consistency in the weight.
• If your press isn't capable of metering red dot well enough, then you should try some other powder which will. I had a similar issue with red dot, and changed.
• How old is the bushing? Sometimes, the rubber seals are too smooth or too rough, and you could be losing powder. Check the wipe surfaces for evidence of powder spillage. If it's a brand new bushing, sometimes a little graphite will help smooth out the bushing travel. Never use oil.
• The powder manufacturer is your friend. Call them during the business week, and ask to speak to a technical person. Explain the issue, and ask them to suggest a solution, or an alternate powder. You'll be happy by the end of the call.
• Oh, and finally, MEC makes an adjustable bushing for the 600 Jr. It allows you to adjust how much powder and how much shot (independent adjustments) get dropped.
  Link: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=746153
  That was the final solution to similar issues that I had, even after following all of the suggestions I have offered. I was able to dial the powder weight and the shot weights in perfectly.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

I was not tapping the measure so i'll try that. one problem is that when i shift the bar over sometimes it will be smooth and others it seems to be a little harder as if powder is under the bar, i'll be checking that also.

I don't know how old the bushing is because i got this machine used, however, the machine looks to be almost new. In fact the paint was not even worn off in the normal spots, except at the de-primer station where i have done 1200 hulls.

I have the bar you linked to but my problem is it came with the machine and as such it is missing one of the clamps on the bottom of it, no it is not the one i am using now for the test.. I need to get one of the clamps.

Thanks for the info Duke!!

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I found that the adjustable feature of that bar made it easy to compensate for the day-to-day variations of powder. Humidity and temperature can cause powder to fill the measure differently, even from day to day. You can make minor tweaks with the adjustable bar to account for that, and hit the exact weight pretty quickly. Some people hate thise adjustable bars, and some love 'em, I'm one that likes it very much.

BTW, I am using up the remainder of my red dot with .38 special loads. Works good for that.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

I think i will like the bar once i find a clip for it

 

[Jose]

Your weight distribution is fine.

Unless you get a double charge nothing will happen.

To say that straying one or two tenths of a grain over max creates a dangerous situation is nonsense.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

it wasn't just that but more to the fact that it ranges from 18.8 to 19.6 thats almost a full grain. however if you notice the 18.8's were both in the 1st 5 test charges on a clean machine/bar/tube. so basically it's 19.0 to 19.6

 

[jshooter]

Your weight distribution is fine.

Unless you get a double charge nothing will happen.

To say that straying one or two tenths of a grain over max creates a dangerous situation is nonsense.

I'm with Jose on this, I have pretty much worn out my Mec9000, if not worn "out" ready for a factory refurb at least. when I shot sporting clays I was reloading 15,000 rds a year and that is not an exaggeration. I was reloading 1oz loads with clays for a powder and using Remington Premier hulls and once the machine was set never messed with it again. I don't shoot more than 1,000 rds a year now but the machine still works fairly well for its age. I think I bought it in 1994. My only recommendation would be to switch your powder out to Clays or the new Clay Dot. The powder is very clean in shotshell loads.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

I had been thinking about the clay powder. but when i went through my book the recipe that worked for what i had, included the red dot - that was why i got it.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Clays runs better in my MEC 9000, with the adjustable powder bar.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

My point was more to indicating that with the proper powder, you should be able to get the powder to meter and dispense more accurately than what he was seeing. Column density is a big factor in setting the volume/weight. Consistency in cycling is another.

He's already admitted that he didn't tap the powder down, and was having issues with the powder bar jamming occasionally.

Shotshell reloading isn't like metallic cartridge reloading. You don't "work up to a load". You follow the recipe as closely and accurately as possible.

What I meant to imply was that having a system that is out of control is a potential for a problem. A tenth or two over or under isn't the issue directly. It's just an indicator that the system has the potential for straying even a bit more than that, which could be an issue.

The Maj. is taking steps to get the system to be in control. So, that's the good thing.

Your weight distribution is fine.

Unless you get a double charge nothing will happen.

To say that straying one or two tenths of a grain over max creates a dangerous situation is nonsense.

 

[Fixxah]

Hey Tim, don't use a Bic to check if powder is under the bar.