A follow-up to some info about the Newtown shooting

[Len-2A Training]

For the Record:

I own a Bushmaster .22LR AR15! Bought it from ZHA and have spoken with Bushmaster about it. Please note the following:

- Bushmaster has assured me that these were made and sold as .22LR AR15s for a few years. They are NOT conversion kits!
- The lower is all metal, and marked .223 caliber. It is the same exact lower (except buffer tube) as my Post-ban Bushmaster AR15 (in .223) that I bought new.
- It uses what looks like a 20 rd mag, but actually has a Remington 597 mag inside the shell.
- These are NOT the Carbon plastic guns that are currently sold by Bushmaster.
- I have seen another gun identical to mine at BR&P and chatted with the owner of that gun.

So all those investigators who know diddly about guns could easily conclude that it was a .223 based on looking at the markings on the gun itself.

---------

The above aside, I am sure that they are holding back info in a conspiracy to use what they have released to their purposes of another gun ban.

 

[Mudfish]

For the Record:

I own a Bushmaster .22LR AR15! Bought it from ZHA and have spoken with Bushmaster about it. Please note the following:

- Bushmaster has assured me that these were made and sold as .22LR AR15s for a few years. They are NOT conversion kits!
- The lower is all metal, and marked .223 caliber. It is the same exact lower (except buffer tube) as my Post-ban Bushmaster AR15 (in .223) that I bought new.
- It uses what looks like a 20 rd mag, but actually has a Remington 597 mag inside the shell.
- These are NOT the Carbon plastic guns that are currently sold by Bushmaster.
- I have seen another gun identical to mine at BR&P and chatted with the owner of that gun.

So all those investigators who know diddly about guns could easily conclude that it was a .223 based on looking at the markings on the gun itself.

---------

The above aside, I am sure that they are holding back info in a conspiracy to use what they have released to their purposes of another gun ban.

Wow. This actually would make sense. Up until now I've been pretty skeptical of all this coverup talk.

 

[Cabinetman]

So how does this "friend" know? Based on the wounds? Or the casings at the scene?

Pretty difficult to screw up .22 LR cases for .223/5.56 NATO cases.

first hand examination of the wounds.

 

[Cabinetman]

your friend is a p*ssy. why's he holding out?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forum Runner

Now, Eric, my friend is not a pussy......not by a long shot. I don't know what his restrictions are and didn't ask. However, as his friend he confided in me with this critical and damning information. If instructed to tell all he would. But this may be his way of getting the info out.

I've decided that I'm going to compose a letter to the NRA as well as FOX, Rush, Howie, etc.

I'm going to be as direct as possible and let's see what matriculates to the surface. My info may be only the initial hit and these outlets require multiples. I'm sure, however, that if given the proper direction to pursue, they'll be able to make some headway. Christmas first, however fellas. Heading over to enjoy a joyous Polish evening.

Tomorrow and Wednesday are another day.

Rome

 

[MisterHappy]

Unpossible that the cops would be less than forthcoming.

I mean, after the old guy on the floor of his own home was shot by the Framingham SWAT team guy, with a rifle, all was made clear, right away, wasn't it?

 

[DrRansom]

I don't think that in the big picture that the details are going to matter much to anyone outside of our hobby. The general public does not know the difference between a .22 and a .223 anyway! To most average people that extra digit is meaningless, and for all intents and purposes could be assumed to be just a misprint by a reporter somewhere down the line. I don't have to tell anyone here that there is a HUGE difference in terminal damage between the 2, so if we never have actual medical reports accessible, no one will know the difference, and the fact remains that over 20 people, mostly children are dead. Even if by some miracle, the investigators were to release a statement saying that the evil "Bushwacker" was chambered in .22, does anyone here really believe it will matter? A HUGE part of the proposed ban will be going after high capacity "clips", so they will just focus on the fact that the guy used those in the rifle, and that is what everyone will be hearing. At this point, who cares if it was a .223, 7.62, .300 blackout, or whatever. Caliber will make no difference at all!

Maybe not. But exposing fraudulent reporting, untruthfulness, and a**h*** agenda might.

 

[garandman]

Posted on another forum.

Poor, most-often black kids are getting their asses shot off every day in most inner cities. But it takes some rich white kids getting shot to outrage the populace. It's a terrible,terrible tragedy - but the lives of most of the kids killed by firearm violence are no less tragic just because they are being killed one at a time.

I'm fine with the public attention as long as it leads to something that will actually solve the problem - which means more police feet on the street, better educational systems, and more economic opportunity. "The best way to stop a bullet is with a job."

Massachusetts, NYC, Washington DC, Chicago, Detroit, and LA have already proven that gun laws that criminalize lawful owners or are essentially confiscatory do almost nothing to solve the primary public safety problem. Here's a graph from the Boston Globe.

The FIRST thing I want schools to do is to "harden" the public entrance points so that someone can not quickly enter the school. There is all kinds of technology to do this, from window films to video cameras that can feed to the police station to better locks. It is cheap, easy, and uncontroversial.

I don't have the slightest hope that more gun laws are going to make a bit of difference - because Massachusetts is a poster child for the firearm control movement, and all it has done is limit the freedom of law-abiding citizens while guns are more and more often used in increasingly-common street crimes. If we are going to fix the problem of firearm violence, we need more police - and better public schools, public mental health care, and economic opportunity."

 

[Jrjr]

If we believe absurdities, we commit atrocities.

 

[Maxpower]

I've decided that I'm going to compose a letter to the NRA as well as FOX, Rush, Howie, etc.

They don't care.

 

[Cabinetman]

If that's the case, then I've done my best and will move forward.

Rome

 

[calsdad]

Hi all

Not the best of subjects to be bantering about on this day of all days. However, what I'd like to share with you is just too important.

Today was finish up shopping day so we swung by Costco for a moment as it opened. There I ran into a close personal friend of mine. I will not divulge his name or his occupation. I can tell you that he and I go back 25+ years and I've hunted and fished with him numerous times over long periods. What I was unaware of the fact that he was called as a first responder during the terrible Newtown attack. The reason subject even came up was because, being a hunter, he was very much first hand aware of the damage a .223 would do to an adult human, never mind a younger person. We chatted quietly and I mentioned how disturbed I was that this had happened and that's when he told me....... that the shootings were done with a .22. in once case 11 shots. I won't go into any other details. I repeated what he said and he confirmed that what we're speculating on and hearing is just wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, what a white elephant! Imagine. Someone points out that it's the dreaded ebr Bushmaster that is at fault here and woe to all of us for its existence. Yet, now I'm told but what I'd called one of the most credible sources I know that this was the doing of a .22. Bushmaster? Maybe it was at one time but maybe.....just maybe it's a .22 convert. That does fit the question of where the .22 came from the used on his mother. And, those .22s always jamb once and a while. There was one incident where 6 children were able to flee while the shooter supposedly had to unjamb his rifle.

Could there be this much of an insidious lie being perpetrated to the general public by someone with an agenda? Jesus Mary and Joseph! I'm going to have to tighten the tinfoil cap if this is what we are really up against.

Allow me to continue.

I swung by Riverview this afternoon, too. I had to make a small purchase. We were all chatting at the register and the subject of the AR came up. We were all told in no uncertain terms that the AR used did NOT............NOT come from Riverview, period, end of discussion. Up until now I know that I'd read and heard that the Bushmaster had come from Riverview....the second rifle to be used in a mass shooting, etc., etc. As it turns out, that's also wrong.

My oh my this is enough to make my head explode. I'm going to close by saying I'm going to try to not think of this any further. If, however, the discussion continues on its present course I will contact the NRA and I will disclose the information I've got to them to investigate. If I can find this out, so can others and others also know what the truth is.

Please have a Merry Christmas and hope that you all will keep those damaged families in your thought and prayers.

Rome

I knew something stunk about this right from the first moment I heard about it. A lot of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion. I know sometimes in the "heat of battle" and early on in an incident like that "facts" sometimes get muddled - but this whole thing has been one long chain of contradictions.

 

[calsdad]

For the Record:

I own a Bushmaster .22LR AR15! Bought it from ZHA and have spoken with Bushmaster about it. Please note the following:

- Bushmaster has assured me that these were made and sold as .22LR AR15s for a few years. They are NOT conversion kits!
- The lower is all metal, and marked .223 caliber. It is the same exact lower (except buffer tube) as my Post-ban Bushmaster AR15 (in .223) that I bought new.
- It uses what looks like a 20 rd mag, but actually has a Remington 597 mag inside the shell.
- These are NOT the Carbon plastic guns that are currently sold by Bushmaster.
- I have seen another gun identical to mine at BR&P and chatted with the owner of that gun.

So all those investigators who know diddly about guns could easily conclude that it was a .223 based on looking at the markings on the gun itself.

---------

The above aside, I am sure that they are holding back info in a conspiracy to use what they have released to their purposes of another gun ban.

If this was in fact a .22LR rifle - that simply looked like an "assault rifle" chambered in .223 - then at the very least it gives the argument against banning rifles simply based on appearance something to stand on.

The problem is having somebody on the pro-gun said actually make a cogent argument with those facts.

The whole assault rifle thing reminds me of having a politician try to ban Ferrari's because they go too fast and crash and kill people. But then some kid with a Fiero and a fiberglass body kit (that makes it look like a Ferrari) - takes his 4 cyclinder crapbox out and smashes into bunch of school kids crossing the road.

The FACTS of what really happened never seem to come into play - everybody lets the politicians bitch about Ferrari's killing schoolchildren - even though it isn't true at all.

 

[calsdad]

Now, Eric, my friend is not a pussy......not by a long shot. I don't know what his restrictions are and didn't ask. However, as his friend he confided in me with this critical and damning information. If instructed to tell all he would. But this may be his way of getting the info out.

I've decided that I'm going to compose a letter to the NRA as well as FOX, Rush, Howie, etc.

I'm going to be as direct as possible and let's see what matriculates to the surface. My info may be only the initial hit and these outlets require multiples. I'm sure, however, that if given the proper direction to pursue, they'll be able to make some headway. Christmas first, however fellas. Heading over to enjoy a joyous Polish evening.

Tomorrow and Wednesday are another day.

Rome

Sometimes that's the best you can do.

Your friend has a legitimate concern about losing his job and all that comes from that.

I see the same sort of thing happen where I work. People who misunderstand how things REALLY work - think that they are going to change things by pulling some sort of Norma Rae moment and standing up and confronting the CEO at the annual meeting or something like that. The truth is that you can bury people just as effectively by working behind the scenes to get the truth out. The rumour mill is a VERY powerful thing. Word always gets around about what people do - and people who find out the truth take action based on that - even if you don't hear about it.

Sometimes you just need to stand back and watch what happens - or what DOESN'T HAPPEN.

I first keyed in to how powerful the rumour mill is back in college. I went to Dayton Beach on spring break with a bunch of roommates and friends. We did the typical things college kids do on Spring Break - just like you see in all those movies. About a week after we got back I ran into a girl I knew - who I thought had absolutely NO connection at all to anybody I went down there with. Her comment was " I heard what you did in Daytona" followed by some laughing and so forth. I was sort of like "WTF" - how the hell did she know?

Turns out one of my roommates was in class with a friend of one of her roommates. Her roommate heard the story - and then told the girl I knew. You might ask yourself why would they even bother to tell the story? Well I think it was because I really liked this girl - and I think she knew it and maybe liked me too. Girls (and women) - ALWAYS talk about these kinds of things. So when the story came up about what we did - it was inevitable to make it's way back to her.

I see the same sort of thing happen at work CONSTANTLY. People screw each other over based on things they know about other people that they hear thru the rumour mill. My boss is a bit of jackass. He's constantly yelling at people and throwing people under the bus. Worse yet - he yells at the WOMEN. I work in high tech - there aren't that many women there to begin with. The ones that are there - stick together - AND THEY TALK. This is why I always treat women nicely - they ALWAYS know what is really going on.

Your friend doesn't necessarily need to "come out" and say what he knows. What you are doing here right now - is perfect. It will only get better by spreading it onto as many gun forums, Facebook - etc - as you can. I will do my part to spread the rumour as much as I can.

Gun buying sprees and and rumours of government conspiracies - plus (alleged) facts like this one posted on the internet - may well be enough to bury any attempts at further gun control legislation. That's why we need to engage in them. It's far easier to bury this stuff doing it this way than it is to fight it out in the halls of government.

 

[blindndead]

Honestly, this would not suprise me in the least....

 

[Busa]

It is the military style rifle they are after. .22 or .223 means nothing to the general public.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

It is the military style rifle they are after. .22 or .223 means nothing to the general public.

True. But most antis think that a 22 is a squirrel killing caliber. If they only knew the ballistics of it they'd be against it too . I'm lucky to have a good stockpile of Federal bulk but its hard as hell to find. 223 forget about it.


Sent from my POS iPhone

 

[Busa]

True. But most antis think that a 22 is a squirrel killing caliber. If they only knew the ballistics of it they'd be against it too . I'm lucky to have a good stockpile of Federal bulk but its hard as hell to find. 223 forget about it.


Sent from my POS iPhone

Im not sure we want to bring to light the fact that we have this caliber in the extra killy military style rifle. They may learn the the .22 is probably responsible for a large number of murders and decide to throw that on the ban list.

 

[Terminator03]

Im not sure we want to bring to light the fact that we have this caliber in the extra killy military style rifle. They may learn the the .22 is probably responsible for a large number of murders and decide to throw that on the ban list.

Exactly. I think exposing this story should only be for the purposes of showing the lies, and spin that the media puts on stories to further their liberal agendas. The unfortunate side effect, though, is that a GUN, regardless of caliber was used in this crime, which is all they are ultimately focusing on anyway. The caliber used just becomes a semantics argument at that point. Even if a story such as this was to go full on mainstream media, like someone else pointed out, they will just spin it to say "Well, we were mistaken on the exact caliber of the gun used, but this just further proves that ALL guns in the wrong hands are extremely dangerous, and should be controlled/banned to the general public to prevent these atrocities from happening!" I just don't see any bright side to this at all.

 

[crazymjb]

I knew something stunk about this right from the first moment I heard about it. A lot of other people seem to have come to the same conclusion. I know sometimes in the "heat of battle" and early on in an incident like that "facts" sometimes get muddled - but this whole thing has been one long chain of contradictions.

This is the problem with you conspiracy theorists. One person makes an unsubstantiated and relatively insignificant claim and all of a sudden "see I knew it" is the immediate response.

If it was misreported as a .223, which is definitely possible, that flies even further in the face of the little "the government did it" BS. Just like people are jumping all over this guy who shot the firefighters. It's part of the conspiracy. Yes, the government picked a convicted killer with stolen/illegally obtained firearms to pull one over on us as far as gun control goes.

Mike

 

[Maninblue1861]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/119364/No_AR15_Found_at_Sandy_Hook_Massacre/

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

When was that aired.
Was the last part of the clip aired with it or was that something that someone added in to make a point?

This keeps getting worse.

 

[Terminator03]

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/119364/No_AR15_Found_at_Sandy_Hook_Massacre/

The closing quote by the medical examiner seems to contradict the news story, though. He states that ALL of the wounds were caused by the "long gun".

 

[Bfatz]

They know economic collapse is inevitable, so they have to take advantage of this while they can. Anyone see today's dismal Econo numbers? Red book Fail Richmond Fed FAIL Retail numbers in what is suppose to be the busiest shopping period FAIL

So lets make believe he did have an AR15 Chambered in .22 with ( 4 ) 30 round mags really? 100 bullets were reported so he got off 3.5 clips and then turned the rifle on himself?

 

[KAG]

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495

just to add another twist(I don't know if this was posted yet)

 

[bfm]

http://www.onthemedia.org/2012/dec/...&utm_campaign=daMost&utm_content=damostviewed

listen through or jump to the "reports" that turn out to be wrong, but are what everyone remembers.

 

[Terminator03]

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495

just to add another twist(I don't know if this was posted yet)

Thank you for posting this. I haven't seen any reference to this particular reel yet.

 

[SteelShooter]

Thank you for posting this. I haven't seen any reference to this particular reel yet.

That was aired 12/15. I think the other facts came out after that.

 

[KAG]

Sorry couldn't find a date on the video anywhere. But it just goes to show how many times the story has changed and they don't yet have a straight answer.

 

[LR308_GNR]

The investigation is either being run by the most retarded jacked-up morons ever to stand upright... or this is a false flag event.

Too much stink for it to be anything else.

 

[Sir_Gawain]

I hope that the OP does the right thing and reports this to the NRA, Media, and anyone who will listen.