7 year old accidentally shot, killed. How will you handle the Anti's arguments today?

[Paul455]

The person who owned the gun is at fault 100%.

My kids are grown and now have professions.

When they were young, my wife and I drilled them on safety everywhere...we had an in ground pool, so they were taught to respect it and the same with guests.

Any type of power tool used by them had adequate training.

My oldest son was 12 when he stated to cut the grass. I did a demonstration with an old sneaker by running it over.

He was astounded that the mower could slice the sneaker in half.

Bottom line is that safety starts in the home, and we all need to drill this into our families and friends.

Unfortunately, accidents happen every day, and there is no escape from avoiding them 100%.

 

[Burgundy41]

They won't change their minds, don't bother.

 

[gene]

Funny how they never mention the back round, names or anything else about the person who left the gun in the truck when we have one of these. Was the person that left the loaded gun in the trunk licensed, was the gun registered and lawfully owned. Notice how quickly the case in Dorchester went away when the juvenile gang banger older brother shot the younger one. Now he's just a statistic to infringe on lawful gun owners rights!

Metts says the real gun belonged to the boyfriend of the boy's mother and she did not know it was in the trunk.

The sheriff says charges could be filed in the shooting. Police did not release the name of the boy, his mother or boyfriend.

GASTON, S.C. What's the Boston Heralds Agenda here? They don't report on all things that happen in SC!

 

[durask]

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...ar_old_girl_accidentally_shot_killed_at_party

And when I raise that counterpoint, I get the usual reply, something along the lines of "Because! Booze is GOOD....but Guns are BAD!!"

And you tell them, wait, wait, why is it GOOD? Crack is GOOD, too, you know.

It serves no purpose but to intoxicate people (well, you have rubbing alcohol but it does not have to be ETOH anyway).
It is addictive.
Each year thousands of people die from alcohol overdose, from disease caused by alcoholism, from drunk driving.

Well, suuuuure you claim you just enjoy the bouquet of your wine but frankly, given thousands of people who are suffering and dying as we speak (or type), you should be a responsible citizen and give up your damn Merlot. Eat some vegan turkey and go jogging instead.

 

[Member73]

Any accident resulting in the death of a child, especially a preventable one, is certainly a major tragedy. Like others have said, the owner of the firearm is likely at fault and should be held accountable if proven as such. As for the relative dangerousness of firearms in general, search the CDC "wonder" database, for 2010 the number of deaths of children under 9 was 307, while the number of drownings for the same age group was 1,319 (from other CDC info, slightly more than 1/2 in residential pools). The information I found puts the number of residential pools in the U.S. at somewhere between 8-10 million. So from the CDC info for children under 9, pools cause about 0.074 deaths per 1,000 pools. Conversely, there are around 300 million firearms in the U.S., at 307 deaths total, we get 0.001 deaths per 1,000 firearm. So a pool is 74 times more likely to be involved in a child's death than a firearm. We can look at it per home aspect as well. About 10% of homes have pools, about 40% of homes have firearms, so a child is 8x more likely to die in a home with a pool than one with a firearm. Which do you think should be regulated more? Use logic and facts, if that doesn't work, than there is no getting through to them.

 

[Sig Sauer Shooter]

Tell them Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than your guns!

 

[mac1911]

Ask them what is stopping them from moving to a country that already has these things....... no 2nd, cops only have guns(legally) and rainbow ponies for everyone...sarcasm there a bit.
Also ask them why those killed in the Boston bombing made a huge increase in security for one day...... mean while not long ago Mr Marty Walsh told Boston business owners to pony up if they want more police on the streets..... 40 people where murdered in 2013 just in boston I believe only 16 of those murders have suspects! I couldn't find the info on how many of tbose where by gunshot. I'm going to say only axhandfull.?
Ask them how many of the promised police on the streets by their beloved gov. Patrick actually appeared.
My general response is......do you believe in the constitution at all.
If they answer yes..you might be able to get some points across. If they say no. Walk away

 

[shamrockjr]

Excelent video posting docboss.g

Agreed! +1

 

[VTHunter]

Any accident resulting in the death of a child, especially a preventable one, is certainly a major tragedy. Like others have said, the owner of the firearm is likely at fault and should be held accountable if proven as such.

Th 14 year old is apparently being charged with manslaughter for the death of his brother. Is it possible that this was not an accident? Perhaps we do not have all of the facts. There is not much to the article.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/boy-14-charged-in-shooting-death-of-brother-9/25691206

 

[Pete85]

Having lived among the Cambridge types all my life and having thought about this at length, the ugly truth is...they have a point. There are a very large number of accidental shootings every year and many of the victims are children. Which is why you can't win an argument with them on this topic. As far as they're concerned the facts are on their side. They don't care that disarming the population has often been a prelude to genocide.

Firearms accidents, particularly those involving children, are actually statistically very rare. In a given year, usually between 40 and 70 children under 14 are killed accidentally with a firearm. Compare that to the number of children under 14 who are killed in bicycle accidents each year, which a google search puts at being anywhere between 100 and 250 per year (no concrete numbers though). You don't see people panicking because their kids are riding their bike's around the neighborhood, yet statistically that is more dangerous to the kids than playing in a house that has a gun. The big difference is that every firearm accident is publicized and sensationalized by the media. If the girl from the OP's article fell off of her bike and died, we wouldn't even be hearing about it up here (the local papers might not even give it that much space), but because it involved a gun, it's news across the nation.

FWIW, if someone knowingly left a loaded gun with these kids' toys, they should be held accountable.

 

[agile_1]

First off - someone had the responsibility of managing and securing the firearm - they blew it. All kinds of training issues there. In my mind this is where we should focusing legislative efforts. Provide FREE and MANDATORY training. When you first get an ltc-A and when it comes up for renewal. It could be optional but compliance would need to be evaluated. I think if training was FREE people would be more inclined to attend.

Second - yes - on a yearly basis many more people die from diseases related to smoking and second hand smoke exposure than are killed by firearms. Never mind alcohol and vehicle related deaths.

But there are many antis who simply want to make life as difficult as possible for gun owners. They would ban everything if they could and I do not think that any amount of argument will sway them. Of course, these people typically think that it is ok for armed guards, private security guards, secret service and all manner of law enforcement to carry and use firearms. They also think that by banning guns criminals will suddenly stop using them.

 

[otasan56]

I am going to a bowling pin shooting match in Chester, NH in five days. 30 guys with powerful handguns shooting hundreds of rounds. And I guarantee that NO ONE will be hurt or even threatened.

 

[StevieP]

FFS! Please stop writing 'accident'!

Unless the gun broke, and the bullet came out sideways or something, there is simply NO SUCH THING!

By allowing it to be called an accident, you're playing on their terms.

If the four 'golden rules' of gun safety are adhered to, then nobody gets hurt.

If gun owners keep their guns either under their direct control or properly secured, nobody gets hurt.

If kids are taught "STOP! Don't Touch! Get away! Call an adult!" then nobody gets hurt.

If someone DOES get hurt, it was NOT an "accident." Someone(s) screwed up. Period.

 

[Quiet]

I am going to a bowling pin shooting match in Chester, NH in five days. 30 guys with powerful handguns shooting hundreds of rounds. And I guarantee that NO ONE will be hurt or even threatened.

Especially the pins?

 

[Kron2]

Shouldn't just be the people that are against gun rights that are.pretty mad about this it should also be the people that are responsible gunowners that are up in arms about this incident you have to be a responsible gun owner you have the rights to have a gun but you also got to be smart about it if it's not on you lock it up some people think they can just leave it sitting on the nightstand and think if someone breaks in my house and takes it not my fault they should not have broken in and if you have a kid teach him about guns you should not be touching and if your see a gun find a adult this guys 100% at fault

 

[Quiet]

I don't know who is at fault, there are no details available.

At 14 *with unlimited time* I probably could have opened any consumer level lock/safe. If it was a combination safe, I then owned it and nobody would know.

 

[marinesniper81]

I reply with..."Police have no duty to protect any individual, but only a general duty to protect society as a whole, and cannot be held personally liable for failure to protect an individual." South v. Maryland, 1855 / Warren v. District of Columbia, 1981. According to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights we have the right to life. Such Life can be protected at all costs by self defense. The aggressor gave up is right to life when they chose to attack someone. The trigger requires mechanical force to be moved. There for in this case the energy used to make this mechanical action came from the child. It was consciously pulled by the child. Why try to blame the mechanical device that needs a form of energy to start the chain reaction. Just like a car it will not move until the chain of events allows it to starting with the driver. It usually shuts them up quick

 

[gearjunky13]

Antis logic is that if there was no gun in the house the kid would be alive, technically yes that's true, but its a stupid way to think, but to them guns are bad and this proves it,

To us our logic is that the antis line of thinking could be applied to anything like a pool or swing set,

Also if someone left a gun where a kid could get it, chances are there were a lot more dangers in that home that the kid could get in,

and in most homes a gun is locked up when not in use, contrary to other dangerous things like chemicals and sharp objects, and no gun owner should be grouped in with the actions of another irresponsible person

 

[TOM1960]

Antis logic is that if there was no gun in the house the kid would be alive, technically yes that's true, but its a stupid way to think, but to them guns are bad and this proves it,

To us our logic is that the antis line of thinking could be applied to anything like a pool or swing set,

Also if someone left a gun where a kid could get it, chances are there were a lot more dangers in that home that the kid could get in,

and in most homes a gun is locked up when not in use, contrary to other dangerous things like chemicals and sharp objects, and no gun owner should be grouped in with the actions of another irresponsible person

So...how do the antis explain how or why a 16 year old boy in CT was able to access a kitchen knife and slaughter an innocent 16 year old girl because she declined his invitation to the junior prom? Maybe kitchen knives should be locked up and out of reach of anyone under the age of 21? John "Lofty" Wiseman, the legendary British SAS instructor, got it right when he declared that there are no such things as deadly weapons; only deadly men!

 

[gearjunky13]

So...how do the antis explain how or why a 16 year old boy in CT was able to access a kitchen knife and slaughter an innocent 16 year old girl because she declined his invitation to the junior prom? Maybe kitchen knives should be locked up and out of reach of anyone under the age of 21? John "Lofty" Wiseman, the legendary British SAS instructor, got it right when he declared that there are no such things as deadly weapons; only deadly men!

Exactly, but I fear the antis do not see things so clearly, they think they can regulate safety,

but since they use knifes on a daily basis and regulation would impact them, they would not look at it as they do firearm, they understand a knife and it and a ban would clearly impact there lives,

But don't be fooled into thinking that would not change, people like antis are always looking to ban something they do not see useful to them, and soon I fear you will see some laws introduced on knifes in your home,

like that nice buck knife you may have, or rather nice carving knife, I'd bet if they don't have a need for one, they would believe you don't either, and woud want to ban them as far as size shape and what not,

 

[Kaldone]

like that nice buck knife you may have, or rather nice carving knife, I'd bet if they don't have a need for one, they would believe you don't either, and woud want to ban them as far as size shape and what not,

Like not being able to carry an automatic knife or a knife greater than 3" blade in Massaachusetts? Don't even have to imagine........

 

[StevensMarksman]

I will simply tell them to pound sand, and that their Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.

StevensMarksman

 

[bocan3]

Hi Jason,
It was nice meeting you on the way to CT.
My apologies for taking so long in returning your note, I don't get on here as often as I should. It will improve since just joining as member tonite.
Yours in the Second Amendment,
Bob Canning

 

[M60]

Just tell them that you respect their position on firearms and promise them that if the time comes that they need defense , you promise not to interfere with help because you do not wish to violate their beliefs. Then simply walk away.

 

[blindfire]

Any seriously interested in gun safety as opposed to gun control should also support gun education.
Here's a video that expresses the sentiment much more eloquently than I.
http://youtu.be/Lw7QG-O2JQk
If they object, you should press them to admit to being a gun grabber rather than a safety advocate.

Ok, as a liberal gun owner...let me play devil's advocate on this one.

The immediate response to the water safety is NOT analogous to gun safety.

You can't take a swimming pool to a school and kill 20 kids with it. A swimming pool is not a weapon.

yeah...stupid retort...but that is the mindset of an Liberal Anti.

Gun conversations never end well with someone who actually has already made up their mind on restricting gun rights. Don't bother...you'll just raise your blood pressure and are just better off going and ramming your head into a brick wall. The same result is achieved. Nothing changes...and your head just hurts having to deal with those types of people.

 

[gene]

I'm not responsible for other people's kids when they drown, get killed in a car accident or a medical procedure so why should I feel responsible when they parents or guardians are not! Besides, What's with the Herald story in the Carolina's when they don't even report MA news accurately?
F them