45acp....learning

whacko

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I loaded 400 rounds of 45 acp 200 grain Berry's plated swc (using 4.6 bullseye powder). First couple hundred cycled perfectly.....accurate as hell and low recoil compared to 230 factory ammo so plate shoots have shown a great improvement in my times. Had 4 failed to feeds on my latest batch of 100. Had a buddy look at them that has been reloading for 20 years .... Looks like I didn't crimp them enough and they are hanging up on the feed ramp. I was giving them a light crimp because they are plated......but seems I was too light on the latest batches. I'll run them through the crimping die tonight and tighten them up a bit and I'm pretty confident it will fix the problem. Very satisfying so far in making my own for the 1911. It's a learning process
 

EddieZoom

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greencobra

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just mentioning, not diagnosing the problem, back when, when i shot ipsc, we used a 180 gr swc. because of the design of the bullet nose, we found we had problems feeding when the bullet was seated to recommended ol. we had to seat a little bit deeper into the case and the problem was solved. how much deeper i don't remember in my case, of course each gun was different. i had to load test batches, each a minute bit lower than the last until i found a load that ran reliably. and there is only so much you can go before you start messing pressures up. just thinking out loud is all. :)
 

whacko

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just mentioning, not diagnosing the problem, back when, when i shot ipsc, we used a 180 gr swc. because of the design of the bullet nose, we found we had problems feeding when the bullet was seated to recommended ol. we had to seat a little bit deeper into the case and the problem was solved. how much deeper i don't remember in my case, of course each gun was different. i had to load test batches, each a minute bit lower than the last until i found a load that ran reliably. and there is only so much you can go before you start messing pressures up. just thinking out loud is all. :)
Thanks.

I loaded these all to 1.2 oal per Berry's recommendation and the first few batches ran slick. I compared the batches I made on a specific day (I keep load cards with all the data) to some I had made earlier on on the month and they were definitely crimped a little looser than the first batches.

I just ran by the house at lunch and ran the 200 rounds through the crimp die only the tighten the crimp a little bit more. I should be all set. Will test tomorrow night.
 

whacko

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You could pick up a case gauge if you haven’t already. Helps to be sure cases are being resized correctly.
I should pick one up. Been doing the plunk test in my 1911 barrel when setting up the dies.

I'll add that I don't think this issue was from the cases being out of size. The failures to feed didn't even begin to enter the chamber the case mouth was hung up on the feed ramp.
 

greencobra

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Been doing the plunk test in my 1911 barrel when setting up the dies.
i've always done this myself, just a random sample unless something went south. i've always felt it was good to test in the barrel they were gonna be put through.
 

greencobra

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proper head space and fit in the chamber of a semi auto is only one part of the equation. i've felt the angle of attack starting up the feed ramp is the other part. i think a .45 acp swc changes that angle dramatically. unless the gun was built other wise, the average .45 is purpose built for a rn bullet. not trying to force my theories on anyone, just what i think. i'll butt out now. good luck! :)
 

whacko

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proper head space and fit in the chamber of a semi auto is only one part of the equation. i've felt the angle of attack starting up the feed ramp is the other part. i think a .45 acp swc changes that angle dramatically. unless the gun was built other wise, the average .45 is purpose built for a rn bullet. not trying to force my theories on anyone, just what i think. i'll butt out now. good luck! :)
The advice I got from folks I shoot with and reload said some 1911s will cycle swc and some won't. When I made my first batch I loaded 10 and tested them before making alot of them. My sig 1911 seems to like them just fine. Just an adjustment on the crimp this time. The ones I just ran through the crimp die to tighten up really had a sharp edge on the case mouth. I'm pretty sure these will cycle fine now.
 
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You should be measuring that crimp, instead of “a little more” or “a little less”. One-eyed Jack says he runs his at .465, I run mine, with a 200 Gr. lead swc at .470. They have to be taper crimped. I run mine at 1.250 oal. And yes, get a chamber gauge. Good luck.
 

andrew1220

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You should be measuring that crimp, instead of “a little more” or “a little less”. One-eyed Jack says he runs his at .465, I run mine, with a 200 Gr. lead swc at .470. They have to be taper crimped. I run mine at 1.250 oal. And yes, get a chamber gauge. Good luck.
Maybe I'm not as skilled as some other reloaders here so forgive my ignorance. But can you accurately/consistently measure the amount of crimp?? Especially if using mixed headstamp brass?

I've been fine simply by eyeballing it and pulling bullets after to see if I've damaged/cut into the coating/plating OR deformed the bullet etc. Basically enough crimp to remove the bell/flare (at least with 9mm, 38 spl, and 44 spl). Magnums are different of course.

What does @EddieCoyle say? Just curious...
 
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Maybe I'm not as skilled as some other reloaders here so forgive my ignorance. But can you accurately/consistently measure the amount of crimp?? Especially if using mixed headstamp brass?

I've been fine simply by eyeballing it and pulling bullets after to see if I've damaged/cut into the coating/plating OR deformed the bullet etc. Basically enough crimp to remove the bell/flare (at least with 9mm, 38 spl, and 44 spl). Magnums are different of course.

What does @EddieCoyle say? Just curious...
Not ignorance by any means. Sure, you can measure the crimp, with the same calipers you’re using to measure your oal. Mixed brass doesn’t matter, unless you’ve got some AMERC from somewhere, throw that out.
 

Editor

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Not ignorance by any means. Sure, you can measure the crimp, with the same calipers you’re using to measure your oal. Mixed brass doesn’t matter . . .
Mixed brass (and brass at various stages of its lifespan) certainly can matter. Take a look at Jim Finnerty's My Rounds Won't Chamber! article and pay attention to the Case Length paragraph.
 
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Mixed brass (and brass at various stages of its lifespan) certainly can matter. Take a look at Jim Finnerty's My Rounds Won't Chamber! article and pay attention to the Case Length paragraph.
I don’t think it does, as far as the taper crimp goes. We’re talking about the O.D. Of the case mouth, which is controlled only by the crimp die, right?
 

Editor

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I don’t think it does, as far as the taper crimp goes. We’re talking about the O.D. Of the case mouth, which is controlled only by the crimp die, right?
Read what the man wrote, recognize he knows what he's talking about, and recognize that parageph is specifically about .45 ACP. Yes, it matters.
 

EddieCoyle

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You could pick up a case gauge if you haven’t already. Helps to be sure cases are being resized correctly.
This. A case gauge also tells you if you've got enough crimp. If it gauges, you've crimped enough.

just mentioning, not diagnosing the problem, back when, when i shot ipsc, we used a 180 gr swc. because of the design of the bullet nose, we found we had problems feeding when the bullet was seated to recommended ol. we had to seat a little bit deeper into the case and the problem was solved. how much deeper i don't remember in my case, of course each gun was different. i had to load test batches, each a minute bit lower than the last until i found a load that ran reliably. and there is only so much you can go before you start messing pressures up. just thinking out loud is all. :)
This is funny. I was loading 200gr LSWC (not plated but same bullet shape) and found that I had to load them longer to get them to feed properly.
 

EddieCoyle

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I don’t think it does, as far as the taper crimp goes. We’re talking about the O.D. Of the case mouth, which is controlled only by the crimp die, right?
If you have a longer case you get more taper crimp. If the case is shorter, you won't get enough.

I've seen it where the crimp die was set up properly for new brass (which is longer than many-times-fired brass), but would leave enough flare on fired brass to prevent proper feeding.
 
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This. A case gauge also tells you if you've got enough crimp. If it gauges, you've crimped enough.



This is funny. I was loading 200gr LSWC (not plated but same bullet shape) and found that I had to load them longer to get them to feed properly.
Yep. I’ve found 1.250 is what works for me.
 
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If you have a longer case you get more taper crimp. If the case is shorter, you won't get enough.

I've seen it where the crimp die was set up properly for new brass (which is longer than many-times-fired brass), but would leave enough flare on fired brass to prevent proper feeding.
I can see that in theory, but haven’t experienced it. I shot one batch of 1000 Starline from new until I couldn’t read the headstamp (almost).
 
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whacko

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You should be measuring that crimp, instead of “a little more” or “a little less”. One-eyed Jack says he runs his at .465, I run mine, with a 200 Gr. lead swc at .470. They have to be taper crimped. I run mine at 1.250 oal. And yes, get a chamber gauge. Good luck.
Good point.

I'll add that the batch in question that I put through the crimper again......

Accuracy 7 rounds through one ragged hole at 25 feet.

Reliability....I put 250 rounds (including the batch of re crimp) through 1911 at the plate practice session last night not a single malfunction.
 
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Good point.

I'll add that the batch in question that I put through the crimper again......

Accuracy 7 rounds through one ragged hole at 25 feet.

Reliability....I put 250 rounds (including the batch of re crimp) through 1911 at the plate practice session last night not a single malfunction.
Nice! That sounds great!
 

greencobra

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This is funny. I was loading 200gr LSWC (not plated but same bullet shape) and found that I had to load them longer to get them to feed properly.
yep, i can see that. we did try bringing the oal out a bit but found it wasn't 100%reliable feeding in rapid fire so went in the other direction. my first gun in ipsc was an out of the box gold cup with very few mods until i moved to the .40 for the capacity while still maintaining major.
 
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yep, i can see that. we did try bringing the oal out a bit but found it wasn't 100%reliable feeding in rapid fire so went in the other direction. my first gun in ipsc was an out of the box gold cup with very few mods until i moved to the .40 for the capacity while still maintaining major.
That was mine, too. A great gun once I learned how to deal with the Eliason rear sight pin.
 

EddieCoyle

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I can see that in theory, but haven’t experienced it. I shot one batch of 1000 Starline from new until I couldn’t read the headstamp (almost).
You see it more when you're loading mixed headstamp, mixed times-fired brass.

Also, case mouth thickness can vary from 0.008" to 0.014" among manufacturers. If this (mixed/mixed) is what you're loading, trying to set up a crimp by measuring is not helpful - especially when you figure in the effect of differing case length.
 

jek

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I should pick one up. Been doing the plunk test in my 1911 barrel when setting up the dies.
It is very helpful, especially if you load the other calibers on the block. It's probably overkill, but I usually take a batch of reloads and plop myself in an easy chair and check them in the block to make sure all is ok. I have caught several rds. where I missed slight burrs on the head/rim and the rd. wouldn't seat properly. Better in the block than in a semi-auto. A quick touch with a small file and problem solved. I also have the one they make for common rifle calibers.
 

drgrant

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I should pick one up. Been doing the plunk test in my 1911 barrel when setting up the dies.

I'll add that I don't think this issue was from the cases being out of size. The failures to feed didn't even begin to enter the chamber the case mouth was hung up on the feed ramp.
The other thing a case gauge will tell you that a barrel wont is it will identify cartridges that might have a f***ed up casehead, which can cause other
issues as well.

-Mike
 

andrew1220

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You see it more when you're loading mixed headstamp, mixed times-fired brass.

Also, case mouth thickness can vary from 0.008" to 0.014" among manufacturers. If this (mixed/mixed) is what you're loading, trying to set up a crimp by measuring is not helpful - especially when you figure in the effect of differing case length.
This was my understanding as well. Especially if you're using 9mm cases like CBC/Magtech brass that has thicker casewalls.
I only use mixed headstamp so my experience is probably different than NickJ I guess.
 
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I have over 2lbs of #2400 gun powder left over from what i use to use in a 44 mag, Is therea safe load for the 45 acp useing this powder with a 200 gr. cast bullet.
 
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