3D Gun Plans being released 2nd week of May.....liberals are having siezures

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The real news here, IMHO, is how useless a ban on hi-cap (AKA Standard cap) mags will be. If you can make something that will survive a round or 2 or more, you can certainly make a mag or many mags with impunity.
 

center442

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First of all the Liberator was a manual single shot disposable .45 that was designed to help the resistance get bigger guns by using the small, single-shot. It stored a few rounds in the butt as shown but was a single shot to be sure. Kill an enemy so you could take their more serious gun was their job. I've had the chance to shoot one and it was unpleasant to be sure as you might imagine. There's not much to them but they did the job.

That is my understanding of the purpose behind the WWII Liberator. It was designed to allow an unarmed citizen the ability to "acquire" a rifle from an enemy. Remember that saying about "use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle?"

Zip guns have been around for a long time. Years ago, most cars used manual telescoping radio antennas instead of the single piece units on cars today. Those telescoping antennas usually had three sections. One of those sections was usually a perfect fit for a .22 rimfire cartridge...or so I've heard. Wrapping the piece of antenna tightly with several layers of electrical tape supposedly increased their strength and made them easier to attach to a block of wood. They weren't very accurate or safe, but they would discharge a round.

Naturally, I have no personal knowledge or experience with those devices. [smile]
 
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Isn't that what we're experiencing right now? Someone is controlling ammo and it's not me!

Rome

I won't be surprised if the next round of the gun control "debate" focuses on trying to control ammunition. Many anti-gunners probably won't care and will still try to do things like ban standard capacity magazines even though they can be printed. But the anti-gunners that are true believers in their cause will probably refocus on ammunition.

I think we've been winning the arms/technology race. First they tried to ban "saturday night specials" - that failed (except in MA sort of [thinking]), then the next low hanging fruit was "assault weapons" - that battle is still ongoing but leaning in our favor. The next low hanging fruit will probably be ammunition.
 

xtry51

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It's a step in a very positive direction for gun rights. It's not about how awesome a gun it is. It's about people being able to buy a printer at Staples, which go on sale in stores next month BTW, take it home and press a button. Viola, gun.

It's about access, not the implement. There vast majority of people have no idea how to fix a squeaky door hinge, let alone machine an 80% lower and assemble an AR. Everyone knows how to use the print button.
 
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I won't be surprised if the next round of the gun control "debate" focuses on trying to control ammunition. Many anti-gunners probably won't care and will still try to do things like ban standard capacity magazines even though they can be printed. But the anti-gunners that are true believers in their cause will probably refocus on ammunition.

I think we've been winning the arms/technology race. First they tried to ban "saturday night specials" - that failed (except in MA sort of [thinking]), then the next low hanging fruit was "assault weapons" - that battle is still ongoing but leaning in our favor. The next low hanging fruit will probably be ammunition.

They're already trying to control ammunition. They've started talking about/proposing laws about internet and mail order purchases, requiring the reporting of bulk purchases, etc. In MA, you already need a license to purchase or possess ammo. Some states have even explored laws that would require microstamping of ammunition, and even requiring all ammunition to be engraved with serial numbers that have to get registered to the purchaser (I believe Arizona passed something like this and repealed it before it went into effect).
 

Mesatchornug

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It's worth noting that the printers he's using for the new Liberator [as well as his printed AR lowers and mags] is incredibly different from what is available to the average person, or will ever be available. Extrusion printers are great toys, but that's all they can produce. His designs are meant for SLA machines, which use a laser to basically weld the plastic in order to print. These machines have heated print chambers and larger platens, as well as exceptionally expensive motors. Maintaining them is a giant pain in the balls, and if you don't use them regularly they quickly fall into disrepair.

If you don't work in development, you will likely never really consider owning one. Their prices will come down, but never to the level of omnipresence. He knows this - he's not trying to see these mass produced. He wants to make a point - free men are governed by consent. When they stop consenting governments stop.

If someone really wanted to be a bastard, they'd make CAM toolpaths freely available. Then you could pick up a mill and lathe on Craigslist, and retrofit them to run on CNC for less than it would cost to buy the printer he uses. With that it would be relatively straightforward to manufacture reliable weapons. Of course, either of these would require genuine levels of intention.
 

mikem317

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It's a step in a very positive direction for gun rights. It's not about how awesome a gun it is. It's about people being able to buy a printer at Staples, which go on sale in stores next month BTW, take it home and press a button. Viola, gun.

It's about access, not the implement. There vast majority of people have no idea how to fix a squeaky door hinge, let alone machine an 80% lower and assemble an AR. Everyone knows how to use the print button.

Bingo. And because it's so decentralized, it scares the betters. They don't know how to control it, because they can't. And remember, this is just the first few cycles.

Give it another five to ten years and as the technology improves you could probably print a fully functional AR-15 in the matter of hours or even minutes. I'm sure that will get them into total seizure mode.

- - - Updated - - -

the future still holds protection guys. Once we get some printers , the files are the easiest to track down. possibilities are endless.

They'll be served via BT or some other decentralized hosting solution.
 
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It's worth noting that the printers he's using for the new Liberator [as well as his printed AR lowers and mags] is incredibly different from what is available to the average person, or will ever be available.

This, no one here will ever be making these things unless they have a 100K+ for a machine. At that price just buy some old mill/lathe equip and make something real. This is making a point only, real prints for real guns are already out there and have been for a very very long time.
 
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I noticed this in the comments at » LIBERATOR DEFCAD

WARNING FELLOW PATRIOTS: Please do yourself a favor and review the AOW (Any Other Weapons) provision of the National Firearms Act prior to printing this weapon. In its current form, the barrel in the CAD file appears to have a smooth bore. Printing a weapon with such a barrel could be interpreted by the ATF as “creating an AOW”, which is an act requiring special registration, and possibly even possession of a Federal Firearms License. As trivial and arbitrary as this law may seem, it’s not a law you want to be be caught breaking.



Is that true - can anyone else verify that?
 
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It's worth noting that the printers he's using for the new Liberator [as well as his printed AR lowers and mags] is incredibly different from what is available to the average person, or will ever be available. Extrusion printers are great toys, but that's all they can produce. His designs are meant for SLA machines, which use a laser to basically weld the plastic in order to print. These machines have heated print chambers and larger platens, as well as exceptionally expensive motors. Maintaining them is a giant pain in the balls, and if you don't use them regularly they quickly fall into disrepair.

Are there any parts in particular (you can see all the parts for the liberator spread out here » LIBERATOR DEFCAD ) that you think would be wholly unsuitable to be printed with an extrusion printer?

Hypothetically, if you said "that barrel would absolutely not work with extrusion formed ABS", couldn't you print the rest of the design and replace the barrel with an appropriately sized steel pipe? Or, if that trigger component won't work - well now I"ve got the dimensions from the cad file and it looks simple enough to cut out of some bar stock (or a shovel) with a hack saw.... I kind of think the 3d printing aspect is only half the point of this project, the other half is just releasing the designs/patterns for all the parts in an open/accessible format.
 

groundscrapers

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It's worth noting that the printers he's using for the new Liberator [as well as his printed AR lowers and mags] is incredibly different from what is available to the average person, or will ever be available. Extrusion printers are great toys, but that's all they can produce. His designs are meant for SLA machines, which use a laser to basically weld the plastic in order to print. These machines have heated print chambers and larger platens, as well as exceptionally expensive motors. Maintaining them is a giant pain in the balls, and if you don't use them regularly they quickly fall into disrepair.

If you don't work in development, you will likely never really consider owning one. Their prices will come down, but never to the level of omnipresence. He knows this - he's not trying to see these mass produced. He wants to make a point - free men are governed by consent. When they stop consenting governments stop.

If someone really wanted to be a bastard, they'd make CAM toolpaths freely available. Then you could pick up a mill and lathe on Craigslist, and retrofit them to run on CNC for less than it would cost to buy the printer he uses. With that it would be relatively straightforward to manufacture reliable weapons. Of course, either of these would require genuine levels of intention.

You would be surprised how fast they are dropping in cost. I recently saw a 3k SLA machine that had a build bed that would probably make this.

B9Creator? | Home | What will YOU create?
 

Sniper (+)

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This, no one here will ever be making these things unless they have a 100K+ for a machine. At that price just buy some old mill/lathe equip and make something real. This is making a point only, real prints for real guns are already out there and have been for a very very long time.
The bottom of the line $30 ink jet printer you can go out and buy tommorow at walmart would blow away (speed and quality) the first ink jet printers that were over $1k.
 

Mesatchornug

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So, as has been mentioned - he's using an $8000 machine. They're not impossibly expensive, just out of the realm of easy access - you have to have an intention in buying it. I don't have time right now to research the printer he's using vs the $3K one mentioned above, but I'm willing to bet it can't handle the parts. If we're going to allow for manual machining operations to make the trigger and barrel by going to HD, there are already thousands of zipgun designs that do the same thing for less than the $50 in plastic he used to make that handgun.

Prices will fall, but not like desktop printing. I work as an engineer in a product dev firm. We get parts printed all the time. It's still not worth it to us to invest in a printer for ourselves. The secondary costs of maintenance are just too great. They can only come down from widespread adoption. Unfortunately, printing widgets off Thingiverse and designing new products is simply not the same market driver as printing photos from your vacation, school reports, or directions to your friend's house.

Further, print speeds have mechanical limitations. Extruders will never get significantly faster . What will happen is they will increase resolution and take about as many hours to print. Which is good - higher res will mean stronger parts. But even when we get the RepRap to the point that it can reliably build the current model of the DefDist Liberator, it will have been 5+ years. And you'll still have a gun you can't conceal and is good for one shot. The best part about .22lr zip guns is they can be built into cellphones and lighters. When making something with one shot that's meant to be used up close, it needs to be a secret you have it until the moment it's employed.

Also, while this model is out there, and can't be deleted from the social zeitgeist, version control in the wild is nearly impossible to maintain. We won't need antis to drop in bad models, well meaning contributors will do it for us. It'll be the end-user's responsibility to ensure that they're printing a design that's compatible with their printer, resin, and intended ammo. Even if we've gone so far as to write scripts that set the print resolution, etc. automagically on a given printer, there's no ensuring that the machine has been maintained properly. People can't be convinced to keep their cars running right, do we really expect every home in America to put the time into their 3D printer? So then we'll have folks with today's tech at discounted prices and spotty maintenance records, printing models for the top of the line machines of 10 years from now. We all can see the downfall there.

I want to be clear - in no way am I attempting to lessen the work he's doing. All I'm trying to note is that at our end, as people that understand the basic realities of the human animal, this gun isn't a game changer. What it is is a really good piece in the important conversation that isn't really being had - that we cannot legislate away criminal intent. The problem is not that we live in a society with guns, but that it is one that ever wanted/needed to make them in the first place.
 

Jsfitzgerald85

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i can see these being awesome to create custom gun parts like grips, handguards, etc..........hell maybe even creating a frame to turn a regular rifle into some radical bullpup design
 
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$25 Gun Created With Cheap 3D Printer Fires Nine Shots (Video) - Forbes

One evening late last week, a Wisconsin engineer who calls himself “Joe” test-fired a new version of that handgun printed on a $1,725 Lulzbot A0-101 consumer-grade 3D printer, far cheaper than the one used by Defense Distributed. Joe, who asked that I not reveal his full name, loaded the weapon with .380 caliber rounds and fired it nine times, using a string to pull its trigger for safety.
..........
Joe’s printed gun contains a few more pieces of metal hardware than the original Liberator. Rather than print plastic pins to hold the hammer in the body, for instance, he used hardware store screws. Like Defense Distributed’s gun, the Lulz Liberator also uses a metal nail for a firing pin, and includes a chunk of non-functional steel designed to make it detectable with a metal detector so that it complies with the Undetectable Firearms Act. The rifling that Joe added to the barrel is designed to skirt the National Firearms Act, which regulates improvised weapons and those with smooth-bored barrels.

 
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xtry51

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Again, more people know how to push a button and/or click a mouse than have mechanical talent.

Technically you can make an AK from a shovel, but I only know one person who's actually done it.
 
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