22LR conversion with and AR upper?

[Sprocket]

I have a new optic - red dot - on an AR

Am I wasting time/effort by trying to approximate a zero with a 22LR adapter at 50 feet - or is a basic zero obtainable before moving to center-fire at 50 yards?

Range limitations are the key - I do not have a lot of options for outdoor ranges at the moment - indoor ranges are limited to 22LR for calibers.

Help me get on paper as easily as possible...
Thanks

 

[mac1911]

If your trying to get a rough zero for 223 using 22lr inside at 50 feet I would say yes.

What you could do is a bore sight.
Remove BCG or adapter what ever you have in there.
Set up your upper on a rest or sand bag.....support it so it's steady.
Now place a target down range...looking down through the bore from rear of the upper line up the bulls eye in the center of the barrel. Think of the barrel bore as a 16" long peep sight.

Now do the best you can to adjust the red dot to center of the target and about 2" high...this should get you close enough on paper for your 25m combat zero.

I'm sure there is a suppah smaht exterior ballistic guy out there that can scramble the math to find some sort of calculation to figure out 22lr to 223 relationship?

What red dot? Some companies have targets you can print that will show where the dot should be in relation to bore sighting it or laser bore sight.

 

[browncoat]

This thread has some good info on 22lr ballistics at 50 feet :https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-271679.html

 

[Alex9661]

I wouldn't waste my time. You can zero it with a .22 conversion and be somewhat close to a 50 yard .223 zero but you'll still need to play with elevation and probably windage. How's that substantially different from zeroing from scratch or, as mac1911 suggested, boresighting before shooting?

 

[dcmdon]

If your trying to get a rough zero for 223 using 22lr inside at 50 feet I would say yes.

What you could do is a bore sight.
Remove BCG or adapter what ever you have in there.
Set up your upper on a rest or sand bag.....support it so it's steady.
Now place a target down range...looking down through the bore from rear of the upper line up the bulls eye in the center of the barrel. Think of the barrel bore as a 16" long peep sight.

Now do the best you can to adjust the red dot to center of the target and about 2" high...this should get you close enough on paper for your 25m combat zero.

I'm sure there is a suppah smaht exterior ballistic guy out there that can scramble the math to find some sort of calculation to figure out 22lr to 223 relationship?

What red dot? Some companies have targets you can print that will show where the dot should be in relation to bore sighting it or laser bore sight.

This works great.

But in reality I think you are way way WAY overthinking this.

I've never attached a sight to an AR and not have it be on paper at 25 yards right off the bat.

The top rail on most uppers is so parallel to the bbl its really amazing.

Don

 

[mac1911]

This works great.

But in reality I think you are way way WAY overthinking this.

I've never attached a sight to an AR and not have it be on paper at 25 yards right off the bat.

The top rail on most uppers is so parallel to the bbl its really amazing.

Don

Very true..... but he wants to do a rough zero before he gets to the range. That's about the only way to get it close with out shooting a shot.

 

[mclina]

For what it's worth, when I have put my 22LR conversion bolt in my AR's, they POI has been pretty close to about 25 yards. At 100 yards, it hit about 3" low.

Zeroing at 50 feet should get you in the ballpark. Mounting the upper in a vise and looking down the barrel would as well.

 

[mac1911]

For what it's worth, when I have put my 22LR conversion bolt in my AR's, they POI has been pretty close to about 25 yards. At 100 yards, it hit about 3" low.

Zeroing at 50 feet should get you in the ballpark. Mounting the upper in a vise and looking down the barrel would as well.

Are you saying your 22lr conversion when installed shoots point of aim point of impact at 25 yards then when you switch to 223 the same optic setting shoots 3" low at 100?

 

[dcmdon]

Very true..... but he wants to do a rough zero before he gets to the range. That's about the only way to get it close with out shooting a shot.

The rough zero happens by just clamping it on. At 25 yards its usually only a couple of inches off.

If he understands how to make correct adjustments (inches, minutes, clicks) then its 2 or 3 shots.

Either way. The sighting down the bore trick works like a charm.

- - - Updated - - -

For what it's worth, when I have put my 22LR conversion bolt in my AR's, they POI has been pretty close to about 25 yards. At 100 yards, it hit about 3" low.

Zeroing at 50 feet should get you in the ballpark. Mounting the upper in a vise and looking down the barrel would as well.

Are you saying your 22lr conversion when installed shoots point of aim point of impact at 25 yards then when you switch to 223 the same optic setting shoots 3" low at 100?

It sounds like he's saying that the .22 and .223 are pretty close at 25 yards.

But at 100 yards the .22 drops about 3" more than the .223

Don

 

[Taipan01]

I also use the above method to get a rough setting for a new scope mounting as long as I can see straight thru the pipe. I bought a Tipton best gun vice years ago for my cleaning bench and it works great for bore sighting also as it locks the firearm in and I can move into position to get a good representation of how I will actually hold it. I had made rest out of wood, soft self stick velvet and a couple clamps prior to the vice which is simple enough to do if you have no other use for a Tipton. Besides it acting as a third and fourth hand, I get better results being able to set it with my natural hold.

To add: Once I do a bore sighting or simple mount if bore sighting is a no go, it's easy enough to take the vice with me and use it after the first shot off a bench rest to fine tune it. I'll aim center bulls eye on a nice calm day and make my shot. If I can see the hit on the paper alls I need to do is lock the firearm in the vice, aim dead center on the bullseye again moving the vice U,D,L,R then adjust the turrets without moving the vice so the scopes point of aim centers up on the point of impact. After that it may be a click or two for final adjustments.

Sometimes on the ones that I can't bore sight but have already zeroed the irons (if equipped), I'll just use the irons to co-witness the scope instead of the bore, not great but it usually gets me on paper.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned and it does mess with some people zeroing in with a scope (and in my haste, sometimes with myself also). The movement per click is at 100 yards. Not 25, 50, 200 for all of the scopes I've seen. I use a 1" square grid on targets that I print. I could just make them whatever to compensate for distance but why bother. Anyway, if you're using a 1" grid to adjust say at a 50 yard line and your turrets are 1/2 MOA, they will be 1/4 MOA at that distance. At the 25 they will be 1/8. So say your off by 3" according to your grid and your turrets are the 1/2 MOA calibration. At 100, you need to add 6 clicks in whatever direction, 12 at the 50 and 24 at the 25. At the 200 it would be 1 or 2 clicks. Just thought I'd through this in.

 

[mac1911]

The rough zero happens by just clamping it on. At 25 yards its usually only a couple of inches off.

If he understands how to make correct adjustments (inches, minutes, clicks) then its 2 or 3 shots.

Either way. The sighting down the bore trick works like a charm.

- - - Updated - - -





It sounds like he's saying that the .22 and .223 are pretty close at 25 yards.

But at 100 yards the .22 drops about 3" more than the .223

Don

22lr 25 yard zero will have about a 10" drop at 100 yards.
Your basic 62 grain 5.56 with a 25 yard zero will shoot about 3" high at 100 yards.
And the one shot zero at live fire.

 

[mac1911]

Also for scope adjustment ,moa and clicks to get it stuck in your head pull out a pencil and do a little math or use a ballistic app.

Any way
For basic adjustment 1" will equal 1 MOA at 100 yards. 1 MOA is 1 MOA no matter the distance.

Looks like this. We will use 50 feet or 16 yards roughly
Yards to target / 100. 16/100= .16 inch per moa at 16 yards.
Now how many inches are you off from point of aim we will just use 3"
3"/.16= 18.75MOA
Now what is your moa on your sights 1", 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 ? Most red dots are 1/2 moa or 1/2" at 100 yards. So we go with .5 inch/moa so you need 2 clicks to move your impact 1 MOA
So now it's 2 clicks per MOA we need 18.75 MOA ..... total clicks to move 1moa (2 in this example) x MOA need in correction.. 2x18.75= 37.5 "clicks".

 

[mclina]

It sounds like he's saying that the .22 and .223 are pretty close at 25 yards.

But at 100 yards the .22 drops about 3" more than the .223

Don

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

And the drop for 22LR at 100 yards may actually be a bit more. It's been quite a while since I shot it out that far. I mostly use the 22LR conversion for dumping mags into my steel silhouette at 50 yards, and I'm not too concerned about where I am hitting it.