allen-1
NES Member
And, I've posted this before, I firmly believe it.
Rule #1 are words to live, (or die), by.
I don't expect children to live by these rules,
but adults should. When life goes sideways, it's up to you to deal with it.
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21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas
- Thread starter DispositionMatrix
- Start date
And, I've posted this before, I firmly believe it.
Rule #1 are words to live, (or die), by.
I don't expect children to live by these rules,
but adults should. When life goes sideways, it's up to you to deal with it.
Doesnt matter, he was an active shooter. SOP for active shooter still applies regardless of there defensive situation.
I'm right on the Ventura Co. line.....like a tenth of a god damned mile into LA county.....sucks.
I know there's a big outdoor gun range in the Topas just above Ojai. and out in the desert you can pretty much do whatever you want on BLM land.
HARRYM
NES Member
Millions of dollars spent on tanks, SWAT teams, armored vehicles, training, police built like the Army......and in the end, another Parkland, everyone ignored the shooters threats, the shooter walks right in, police take up positions outside, 1 hr passes, and an off duty border patrol agent walks in a kills the shooter, the the papers bash the NRA and the rest of us.....I'll keep saying it, this country is sliding into madness.
IANAC, but there has to be a policy that someone (first on scene / locals / other) are in charge so that you don't have disconnected teams roaming around uncoordinated shooting each other. For reference, the Watertown Marathon Bombers shootout, where much of the damage seems to have come from friendly fire.
Id like to personally congratulate you on your 1st post on NES that is probably correct. I say probably because I have no idea if that's the correct grammar. But since I don't care and am way to lazy to look it up, I'll take your word for it!
Congratulations! Progress!
bren42970
NES Member
Tactical Crocks
Guess what I said yesterday was just another Conspiracy come true..Of course the normies wont admit it..oh well..
www.zerohedge.com
"It Was The Wrong Decision" - Officers Waited To Engage Texas Shooter Because "They Could Have Been Shot" | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
AFAIK there is no point at which an active shooter turns into a barricaded suspect. I believe the SOP is once an active shooter, always an active shooter. The DPS director said not moving on shooter was the wrong decision, so I'm going to assume that that is the SOP.
I've always said, my old agency won't be a poster child for confiscation.
80 cops isn't enough cavalry?
SFC13557
NES Member
I always carry my G19 but do I now need to carry my AR and a bunch of mags in my vehicle? As previously stated my 5 yr old grandson goes to kindergarten next September and I'm conflicted about what I do if I have to pick him up.
If you are talking about the guys who went in? Newton Azrak Award. Our 'Medal of Honor'.
This is sounding like the election lawsuits. Bring a lawsuit before the election, case dismisses, not harm done. Bring it after the election, laches.
From police to judiciary the entire legal system in the US is a complete shitshow.
Me too.
Remember that scene in Saving Private Ryan, where Mellish is getting slowly stabbed to death while Upham waits outside in the hall and doesn't go in?
I hate Upham during that scene, and they're just actors playing a role. These, what, 19 "trained LEOs" did the same exact thing, and it was real people dying. It almost defies belief. Good thing my expectations for my fellow human beings are already pretty low, or I'd be nonfunctional today...
There was one person in charge, the UCISD chief. He appears to have been inadequate to the task in this case, to say the very least.
Unity of command is a key principle, you're right about that. But that assumes the commander is able to make the right call, or at least A right call. This guy was not. As soon as he or anyone else realized he was in over his head (maybe around the time some wounded kids started making 911 calls, perhaps?) he should have stepped aside or been superseded. By someone more competent.
Not missing a lot of meals down there, are they?
SFC13557
NES Member
Tried, that's no go. They live in affluent town and are highly educated.
My kids go to school.
Millions of others do as well, and they thrive if they've got active and engaged parents and a good mindset. School shootings are vanishingly rare. Remember that. And also remember that schools will develop even better SOPs after this.
But obviously it's a hard choice, and I can't imagine being a grandparent who's more clued in than the parents. I sympathize.
SFC13557
NES Member
Correct, IC is in charge and cops were given instructions and followed Chain of Command. Was there a big fail all the around? YES! Must wait for final AAR to assess blame and corrective action, story/facts keeps changing which is normal in these situations.
allen-1
NES Member
AR and two mags, (in case of malfunction). You're not looking at an extended firefight, you're just trying to up your handgun to a longarm.
And in the trunk, or rear compartment, cased is fine. Your pistol will get you to your rifle if you need it.
Frankly, if you're picking up your grandson and it goes bad, get the kid in the truck and LEAVE. Get him to safety first then decide what you're doing next.
commodon
NES Member
My understanding is that the classrooms involved did not have exterior windows.
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Broadcastify will themselves pull stuff. Take note of the timestamps. If the PD suddenly switched to mobile phones or a different frequency, there would be no gaps.
Those gaps are the feed HOST removing things their TOS says they can and will remove.
SFC13557
NES Member
I pick kids up twice a week at daycare and always carry, parents half the time don't even lock their doors. I flip out and daughter rolls her eyes. She should know better since I've been carrying since 1990 and over 20yrs in Army as a grunt. Daddy's Father is a hunter and owns 1911's and I've told my son-in-law if he gets his LTC he has choice of any of my handguns. He just shrugs his shoulders.
not new guy
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Anyone willing to cut the cops some slack on this need to pick up their mobile phone and set an alarm to go off an hour from now. Then imagine that during that entire time, from the minute you set it to the minute it goes off, there were a bunch of cops sitting outside, "setting up a perimeter" and handcuffing parents, while kids and staff were being executed inside. An hour is an eternity.
Shame on all of the cops involved, whether they were "just following orders" or giving the orders themselves.
Shame on all of the cops involved, whether they were "just following orders" or giving the orders themselves.
Can anyone answer my question on the active shooter SOP in that once an active shooter is declared that that designation and thus SOP doesn't change until the shooter is in custody or eliminated?
Because if that is the SOP, then it is irrelevant if the shooter is barricaded or not, police have to go in and face the bullets to take out shooter ASAP.
Because if that is the SOP, then it is irrelevant if the shooter is barricaded or not, police have to go in and face the bullets to take out shooter ASAP.
As it turns out, at least my old guy(s) did the right thing, while off duty it seems. At least one of them. That whole department needs a cleansing if all of this is true.
It turns into a barricaded subject when he's barricaded and normal entry methods don't work. But someone should have been right outside the door/hallway to seal him in there, worst case. It appears no one did that either.
Here's what I'll say. "Hypothetically."
There are thousands of CCW carriers who pick up their kids from school every single day. I'd wager there are very few (unless there's a metal detector or something) that un-ass their firearm before entering the school to pick up the kid.
I've been picking up kids for 12 years now at various daycares and schools, and I'll be doing it for at least ten more. Hypothetically, IF I was carrying when I've done so, I'd never imagine leaving the gun in the car just to enter the building for a pickup.
Concealed means concealed.
commodon
NES Member
That's what I am grappling with.
If I understood the timeline, there were nineteen officers in the hallway, standing outside of the two involved classroom/s, during which time a teacher and/or students in each of the classrooms were calling 911 to report on the state of the situation.
During a few of these calls to 911, shots from the suspect are heard occurring from with the classrooms, which leads me to believe there were a number of persons still alive inside the classrooms, all the while nineteen officers are standing in the hallway?
Seriously, that's eff'd up. I can't fathom these nineteen officers being able to sleep at night.
[Texas DPS director Steven] McGraw then outlines what the correct action should have been: “When there’s an active shooter, the rules change. It’s no longer a barricaded subject. You don’t have time. You don’t worry about outer perimeters. And by the way, Texas embraces active shooter training, active shooter certification.
“That doctrine requires officers, we don’t care what agency you’re from, you don’t have to have a leader on the scene. Every officer lines up, stacks up, goes and finds where those rounds are being fired and keeps shooting until the subject is dead. Period.”
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