21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

[idefhavecovid]

...okay. I'll bite.

If you buy that argument, and I can see how some might, then how long do you wait before you realize your decision is not helping?

Five minutes? Ten? Twenty?

Any way you slice it, doesn't forty-fifty seem excessive?

45 minutes seems incredibly excessive, but that's irrelevant to many SOPs of departments. you wait until the cavalry rolls in.

 

[vicorjh]

how long do you wait before you realize your decision is not helping?

You wait until the perp has enough time to barricade themselves. Use that as the excuse ... among the many other rationales.

 

[Dench]

you wait until the cavalry rolls in.

you'd know.

 

[HuntMaine]

think for maybe one minute about what the term barricaded means, along with the word "cover" and "hostages". there you go.

Ok so you won’t answer the question. At least you are admitting it was just your opinion versus any actual facts, like I presented.

 

[Dench]

Ok so you won’t answer the question. At least you are admitting it was just your opinion versus any actual facts, like I presented.

You wait. This way those in need of urgent medical attention die. This way the bad guy can continue to kill people with items other than loud firearms. You wait till the pile of bodies is so great that it exceeds the local body bag inventory.

Oh wait.

You don't wait. You go straight in and kill the bad guy immediately.

 

[Picton]

100% meaningless when it's your job and kids are dying. Get the f*** in the building and absorb some bullets.

For the record I put the teachers in the same exact light. EVERY f***ING ADULT IN THAT SCHOOL SHOULD BE RUNNING TOWARDS THE SHOOTER.

I understand your sentiment and I tend to agree, certainly for the cops.

But if I'm a teacher with 30 kids in my room, and I know some other room has a shooter in it, why is it not my responsibility to manage (and evacuate) my 30 students instead of rushing unarmed into a firefight?

 

[Bonesinium]

This incident proves normal patrol cops have no need for rifles and armor if when it’s actually needed they are too afraid and instead wait for an hour and 22 minutes while kids are being murdered. Ducking cowards.

Police on scene before he’s in the school. Three cops enter school within 3 minutes of the murderer. They take fire and retreat. Then at least 19 cowards sit around waiting for over an hour.

Fire them all. We don’t need the most cowardice of society being the ones with badges and guns. They are good at beating up or killing innocent people or people who aren’t threats but out right refuse to act when faced without someone who can shoot back.

 

[idefhavecovid]

Ok so you won’t answer the question. At least you are admitting it was just your opinion versus any actual facts, like I presented.

fact: he was barricaded in a classroom. fact: he had ample cover. fact: he may have had hostages. the cops did not know.

 

[mousegunguy]

, I wasn't there so everything is speculation until we hear from IC and cops that were in school.

They’ve already lied about what happened

 

[Dench]

We all bitch and moan about how litigious and mindless todays society is. And look who our hot take hero of the day is. A lawyer. Jesus f***ing Christ. And these are the people who mostly run the country. No wonder it's so f***ed up.

Clueless ego maniac cowards.

 

[vicorjh]

fact claim: he was barricaded in a classroom. fact claim: he had ample cover. fact claim: he may have had hostages. claim: the cops did not know.

You're a lawyer, huh?

 

[Picton]

fact: he was barricaded in a classroom. fact: he had ample cover. fact: he may have had hostages. the cops did not know.

...after 40 minutes? Seriously?

I'll take my own advice now and stop feeding the troll.

 

[HuntMaine]

45 minutes seems incredibly excessive, but that's irrelevant to many SOPs of departments. you wait until the cavalry rolls in.

They literally do not have Calvarys or are you assuming things function like the 1800s and they would come in riding on horseback? 5 minutes to discuss and act, they took and extra 40? Also held back parents and teased them for trying to enter. So they were prepared to hold parents back but couldn’t determine that going in with the same firearm and body armor and much more training was a bad idea ? Seriously ? While I will stand up for the police in most cases , here they screwed up and it cost many lives.

 

[xtry51]

I understand your sentiment and I tend to agree, certainly for the cops.

But if I'm a teacher with 30 kids in my room, and I know some other room has a shooter in it, why is it not my responsibility to manage (and evacuate) my 30 students instead of rushing unarmed into a firefight?

Tell them to run the opposite way and get out. You run towards the bullets.

Teachers are De Facto government enforced stand in parents while at schools. Its your responsibility to protect those kids and if that means absorbing one bullet to give the shooter one less bullet to put in a kid, get in the f***ing fight.

 

[Bonesinium]

fact: he was barricaded in a classroom. fact: he had ample cover. fact: he may have had hostages. the cops did not know.

They could have known if they weren’t giant pussies and attempted to find out. But it’s easier and safer to hide around a corner when it’s not your kids or spouse being murdered.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Anyone know the details of rumblings of some cops storming in to quickly extract their OWN kids? Or is that just all bs? If they did that while the shooter was still on site, they're more operator than delta force.

 

[dennism]

They’ve already lied about what happened

At least that much is consistent. Police regularly lie in their initial reports to media and the media treats such reports as gospel. When the reality comes to light do reports get corrected?

Of course not.

Just another lie to the media, unfortunately this time it's a big one.

 

[HuntMaine]

You wait. This way those in need of urgent medical attention die. This way the bad guy can continue to kill people with items other than loud firearms. You wait till the pile of bodies is so great that it exceeds the local body bag inventory.

Oh wait.

You don't wait. You go straight in and kill the bad guy immediately.

I’m baffled by the 45 minutes waiting while kids were texting them and calling them saying we are being killed help us. I can’t wrap my head around any rational reason.

 

[Picton]

Tell them to run the opposite way and get out. You run towards the bullets.

Teachers are De Facto government enforced stand in parents while at schools. Its your responsibility to protect those kids and if that means absorbing one bullet to give the shooter one less bullet to put in a kid, get in the f***ing fight.

So that he can step over my body and go murder the thirty kids I just left?

Hmm.

 

[Dench]

I’m baffled by the 45 minutes waiting while kids were texting them and calling them saying we are being killed help us. I can’t wrap my head around any rational reason.

You wait for tear gas said no one ever on Earth except the one guy on NES


At the end of the day the police failed. 100%. And now they are caught up in all sorts of lies ontop of it. It's a real turd. Everyone loses.

So that he can step over my body and go murder the thirty kids I just left?

Hmm.

I'd say your problem is the kids under your charge. Unless you had a niche circumstance that could improve things, thats your main goal.

 

[HuntMaine]

fact: he was barricaded in a classroom. fact: he had ample cover. fact: he may have had hostages. the cops did not know.

Door with a desk in front. Cover? What life a roof over his head? He was standing in the classroom shooting kids. I don’t think you actually understand what cover means or facts.

 

[SFC13557]

I'd punch the guy giving this press conference until his facial tics were on the back of his head.

Why? He was visibly upset and giving a briefing, he WASN'T IC and wasn't even on the scene.

 

[firestorm]

The optics of going door to door gunning down white separatist is better than the images of collateral damage that would come out of cops storming a school. I'm afraid the cops would go door to door in a heartbeat. After all, there will be no real danger to them. They can come charging up in their MRAPs, set up a perimeter, issue a call for surrender though a bullhorn, then engage in a little 12 on 1 fun with their fully automatic weapons.

It's not like the cops are going to face the resistance of a whole pro gun neighborhood organizing against them. And even if they did, they could just hunker down in their MRAP and use it like a pillbox. Who's got an anti-tank rocket lying around to level (so to speak) the playing field.

That works for the first couple, until people are aware it is happening and then they face larger groups who are not sitting in their homes waiting for it to happen to them. Also, MRAP's are not the hard target you think they are, and just about everyone has gas, oil and some bottles sitting around. Hang in your pillbox, get cooked alive.

 

[not new guy]

I suspect idefhavecovid’s paychecks are signed by The State.

 

[Bonesinium]

11:33, murderer enters school.
11:35, three or four cops follow and quickly retreat.
12:57, murderer is finally engages and killed.

How brave. These badge wearing cowards must feel proud.

 

[paul73]

So they were prepared to hold parents back but couldn’t determine that going in with the same firearm and body armor and much more training was a bad idea ? Seriously ? While I will stand up for the police in most cases , here they screwed up and it cost many lives.

that is how a moron in charge can lay down a whole battalion when it is a 'decision paralysis' stage and commanding officer refuses to take any responsibility for potentially incorrect decision, preferring to make no decision at all - that always leads to way more catastrophic consequences.

in military world he would be under the tribunal. here it will be just a pat on the back with a usual 'no worries, you`ve only tried to do your best and save people'.
it is the result when nothing but the most ideal decision is accepted by the society, so people are afraid to be anything less than perfect, as they know - it will not be any mercy in case of a mistake. so to do nothing at all is simpler, than try doing something and making a mistake.

 

[Dench]

Door with a desk in front. Cover? What life a roof over his head? He was standing in the classroom shooting kids. I don’t think you actually understand what cover means or facts.

Don't waste your time with the fantasy commando man. He has zero clue what he's talking about outside of his imagination and his uneducated interpretation of material outside of his expertise. Obviously.

that is how a moron in charge can lay down a whole battalion when it is a 'decision paralysis' stage and commanding officer refuses to take any responsibility for potentially incorrect decision, preferring to make no decision at all - that always leads to way more catastrophic consequences.

Yep. This is a major leadership failure. Like I said earlier, all the cops hanging out there need to be gone and all the officers in charge of those officers there need to go. It's a failure of leadership top down and down back up. Everyone there had a duty to act and everyone was paralyzed by fear and incompetence in the moment of need.

They don't have to be cops. They shouldnt be cops. Hell, I need someone to wash my car. Sounds like a safer more stable job for these people.

 

[SFC13557]

What is that based on , other than your opinion? The police had body armor, they had similar if not better rifles, that had the element of surprise, they outnumbered him. So again I’d ask what is your statement based on other than your opinion.

I doubt their body armor would have stopped a .223 rd. Biggest mistake was teacher who propped open door and then left without closing/locking door.

 

[dennism]

I doubt their body armor would have stopped a .223 rd. Biggest mistake was teacher who propped open door and then left without closing/locking door.

Nah. Humans are fallible. They make mistakes. They make judgement calls that seem rational at the time that end up in tragedy.

Biggest and only relevant mistake at the scene was the cowardly and lying thin blue line.

 

[Mountain]

what a lot of people don't realize is that as soon as you get out of LA/SF/SD city limits, people are extremely conservative. I see a million more Molon Labe, Gadsden flags, American flags etc on lifted trucks out here than I ever did in MA. My neighbor flies a Molon Labe flag with two ARs crossing.

That strategy would probably work in the city but in the Central Valley I do believe the cops would get shot in the face.

NY is a liberal cuck shithole too and look at Safe Act compliance rates....barely exist.




yeah, and this ^

Ventura County was like that for me in my youth. Lots of open land to go shooting and we did- a lot! My brother and family plus in-laws just bailed for Texas, but all of my remaining family and friends are conservative and don't subscribe to all the bans. I know some rural and semi-rural areas where it is well known that the Sheriffs Dept could care less about all the restrictions that the libtards vote into law. Folks openly use standard capacity mags etc. even if a cop or two are using the range. I've seen similar here in Mass. Don't do anything stupid and it's not a problem. Do something stupid- it will be an add-on charge. Of course it should not be illegal period...