21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

eboos said:
He is fine with the "highly vetted and most qualified" having them. Isn't that the NY system? "Highly vetted and most qualified" - meaning: greased the right gears? Nothing for the poors.
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I don't know what he means.
"highly vetted and most qualified" sounds good and is a "reasonable" 5 word answer to a complex question when you don't have everything reasoned out yet.
See also "common sense", "obvious", and "effective". Without more information these mean nothing.

What we do know is that he didn't say "ban them all" or "the 2A is for hunting".

I think this is a realm he hasn't crawled into yet. His opinion is likely to change as he learns more.
 
Chevy 2 65 said:
Could be a lie or could be the truth
www.foxnews.com

Texas school shooting: Loved ones outside school begged police to go inside during shooting: 'Go in there!'

Loved ones waiting outside Robb Elementary School on Tuesday begged police officers who were standing outside to go in and stop the shooter from killing their children, witnesses say.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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The Bortacr wasn't wearing full kit. A baseball hat isn't part of the gear they wear full tilt. That dude grabbed the basics and rolled. Almost cost him his life, rushing to stop it.
 
JackOfAllTrades said:
I don't know what he means.
"highly vetted and most qualified" sounds good and is a "reasonable" 5 word answer to a complex question when you don't have everything reasoned out yet.
See also "common sense", "obvious", and "effective". Without more information these mean nothing.

What we do know is that he didn't say "ban them all" or "the 2A is for hunting".

I think this is a realm he hasn't crawled into yet. His opinion is likely to change as he learns more.
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He may as well have. I take his "highly vetted" as being synonymous with "may issue". Plenty of instances where "may issue" = absolutely will not issue. Being in a gang warfare area or the owner of a shooting range are some of his criteria for granting permits? Sounds a lot like demonstrating a need in order to qualify for a purchase. No way that has ever been abused. ;)
 
eboos said:
No, but they seem to think that they are their guardians who will risk life and limb whenever called.
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Riiight flying the flag representing the 'protection' police offer society exclusively done by the overly large cop humping wing of the republican party is way more rational than left wing expectations of police. Totally.

Especially in light of the false reporting by the police following this incident perhaps some introspection is in order.

At least be logically consistent.
 
dennism said:
Riiight flying the flag representing the 'protection' police offer society exclusively done by the overly large cop humping wing of the republican party is way more rational than left wing expectations of police. Totally.

Especially in light of the false reporting by the police following this incident perhaps some introspection is in order.

At least be logically consistent.
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Please feel free to point out my logical inconsistency.

Where have I defended the rationality of either position? I've got my own beefs with police, but I understand that if you need them for protection, then you are already screwed.
 
I think I'll wait until we see a timeline, even an official one, before condemning the police for not responding promptly and appropriately. That said, it's been demonstrated by both analysis and practice that the most effective SOP for active shooter incidents is to go toward the gunfire and engage the shooter(s) as rapidly as possible. Sadly it's not all departments, and certainly not all LEOs are up on this practice (or mentally suited to it).

Here's an interview with a child who apparently was in the classroom and survived: 4th Grader Who Survived Uvalde Reveals What Shooter Said, Did After Entering Classroom

I didn't listen to the interview, but did read the article, and 2 things struck me. First, was that it was not really a hostage situation. The child seems to indicate that the perp was shooting anyone he found, not keeping them alive as bargaining chips. IMNSHO that means active shoot rules should still have been applied (ex. engage as rapidly as possible) vs. standard barricaded hostage rules (ex. caution, assess and negotiate).

Second, it sounded like there was a little warning before the perp entered the classroom. There was at least one shot prior to his entry, and there was enough time that some of the children were able to hide. Was it enough time that the teachers should have had time to lock the door? Or did they hesitate/freeze? The point of having secure, lockable doors is to keep intruders out, but it works both ways. Once an intruder is inside, that secure, locked door becomes a hinderance to responders.
 
Dench said:
The more info that comes out about this the more it gets suspicious.

This is Insane.
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I'm not, it's pretty clear cut what happened. Crazed 18 year old shot up school, overpaid and privileged local government officials sat around outside with their thumb up their ass even tho they had all the financing, toys, training, and tactics.
 
MaverickNH said:
If LEO training and inter-agency comms was iffy before COVID, depolicing/defunding (and Border surges in TX), it’s so much worse now. With a locked door, the "first on scene entry" rule got short-circuited. We won’t know if command and control was in place and working until there’s an investigation and report.

LEOs may have assigned or defaulted to perimeter control.. A bunch of unarmed parents rushing in has no upside.
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I would rather be a pile of hamburger while trying than stand by and hear the gunfire knowing that children are being slaughtered.
Are you saying a bunch of people charging would not overwhelm the coward?
 
Texas needs to adopt Ohio's approach.
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Fixxah said:
I would rather be a pile of hamburger while trying than stand by and hear the gunfire knowing that children are being slaughtered.
Are you saying a bunch of people charging would not overwhelm the coward?
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I would like to think my response would be a selfless and heroic one, but I will likely never know and I am not eager to find out.
 
FiremanBob said:
The answer to your questions is clear: Democrats. Every problem you cite has been caused by Democrat policies designed to destroy their political opponents culturally and economically, and to create a society of sheep who will keep them in power forever.
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Uvdale Texas, with a police agency that consumes 40% of the budget, also a known democratic stronghold.

In a state that recently cut spending for mental health, while using mental health as an excuse for a mass death. Democratic stronghold state.

How can you post this shit with a straight face?
 
T-Unit said:
I'm not, it's pretty clear cut what happened. Crazed 18 year old shot up school, overpaid and privileged local government officials sat around outside with their thumb up their ass even tho they had all the financing, toys, training, and tactics.
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But did they have their shemaghs?
1653597621253.png
 
NewGuyRay said:
I agree with that perspective, however, given the power wielded by bad actors within these three-letter agencies it only takes one in a position to act on their psychosis to be a problem. Not to mention, some of the issues here live not just within agents themselves but are institutional issues within the organization.

Take the Whitmer kidnapping fiasco for instance. That operational disaster was not the work of a single rogue nut-case agent. It was a sanctioned operation driven not by serving a public good but rather by serving an institutional agenda. So, if agents of the government were in fact creating Manchurian Candidates to carry out mass shootings on command it would not be the isolated actions of a few bad apples.
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That one was tough to defend, wasn't it something like 50% feds on the 'team' to grab Whitmer?
 
weekendracer said:
It's a really good way to end up with a lot of dead cops or good Samaritans.
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No offense, but I would greatly prefer 19 dead cops or good samaritans to 19 dead kids. And while I'm sure that isn't the choice that was being made, and it's entirely possible that those kids were already dead, I would still rather see a bunch of dead cops or good samaritans in the honest effort to save as many kids as could be saved rather than waiting for backup or a tactical team.

At that point they would be heroes. Unlike the much more likely case that a bunch of pussies showed up and were more worried about their own safety and keeping the parents from doing something that might make them look bad and allowed kids to die for their own ego.
 
weekendracer said:
The Bortacr wasn't wearing full kit. A baseball hat isn't part of the gear they wear full tilt. That dude grabbed the basics and rolled. Almost cost him his life, rushing to stop it.
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Ok, but how long did it take for them to get there and go in, and were those other cops sitting out there preventing anything from being done for most of an hour first?
 
dennism said:
news.yahoo.com

Texas police now say no armed officer on duty when school shooting began, raise more questions

During a news conference, officials from Texas Department of Public Safety contradicted earlier statements that an armed school officer was at Robb Elementary when the shooting began. This information comes amid heavy scrutiny of police response to the attack.
news.yahoo.com news.yahoo.com

Police department sure seems to be having a hard time getting their story straight.
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Like I said earlier, the more that comes out the worse this looks. Beyond belief at this point.
 
firestorm said:
No offense, but I would greatly prefer 19 dead cops or good samaritans to 19 dead kids. And while I'm sure that isn't the choice that was being made, and it's entirely possible that those kids were already dead, I would still rather see a bunch of dead cops or good samaritans in the honest effort to save as many kids as could be saved rather than waiting for backup or a tactical team.

At that point they would be heroes. Unlike the much more likely case that a bunch of pussies showed up and were more worried about their own safety and keeping the parents from doing something that might make them look bad and allowed kids to die for their own ego.
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The thing is the kids were already dead. It would be a bunch of people dead with nothing to show for it. I'm still waiting on the official timeline, if cops grabbed their own kids, all kinds of wonky information coming out.
 

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