21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

[HuntMaine]

HR8 coming to the Floor end of week? Also the house is preparing a renewal of the AW Ban.

 

[beaker]

I don't know where Derek got that idea from and he hasnt replied to me. I do know that it's not a common thing and I do know that uniformed officers are not typically eliminated during school shootings.

If you 2 can present evidence that a hidden armed officer is a perk over a uniformed one, please by all means present it. I'm always open to changing my mind. In the meantime the problem that you are attempting to address does not appear to exist, and in reality a uniformed officer actually appears to be an effective out in the open deterrent.

And I suppose an important question to ask you guys is, say there is a cop whose plain clothes.... ok... isnt there a person shooting anyone and everything? wouldnt this plain clothed person be shot at on sight regardless? Couldnt a uniformed officer ambush a shooter the same way as a plain clothes? The entire scenario of a plain clothes officer having a benefit hinges on a shooter seeing said officer, not recognizing him as a threat and ignoring him. Seems unlikely.

Well there is a case to be made either way. However crazy doesnt always equate to stupid. The idea that there are people in any crowd who are armed and will shoot back has a significant impact on the criminal risk assessment, just look at crime stats in areas where CCW is common. In my opinion uniformed officers could be targeted, or the perp would simply wait till they go and get coffee or on the other side of the building. Knowing there are people who will defend and are not obvious is a much more powerful deterrent, high level of uncertainty. Even if there arent any on premise, there could be or is supposed to be. One of the common, almost universal actions of mass shooters is to research and pick buildings or places where they know people are not armed, and are legally barred from carrying.

 

[Picton]

You have to get to Einsatzgruppen levels of insanity to get to that point. Which is why I start to lean towards things that are more likely, like brainwashing. Unless you're part of an organized state sanctioned death squad this sort of behavior is quite unusual to put it mildly.

Even the Einsatzgruppen generally couldn't rely on their killers to kill consistently or well, at least not in the long term. See Browning's Ordinary Men or, better, Rhodes' Masters of Death.

 

[Dench]

Even the Einsatzgruppen generally couldn't rely on their killers to kill consistently or well, at least not in the long term. See Browning's Ordinary Men or, better, Rhodes' Masters of Death.

Yes exactly. Many of the goons stuck in that squad where there as a punishment. It wasn't sought after. The only reason it was a thing was it was backed by the Nazi party and the threat of death from the military police, who took shit to new levels on their own troops especially on the Eastern front.

So here we have random people doing things that are on par with or worse than one of histories worse government sanctioned death squads. It took ALL that shit to get a squad that evil. Years ontop of years of brainwashing, threats and hate. That's why I get a little suspicious when we see everyday crazy people doing something that histories worse people didn't even want to do.

Drawn out and complicated murders should always be viewed as suspicious.

 

[Woodsloafer]

like an another 16 yr old in line who will take a black plastic bb gun after a failed exam and get to the high school to commit a suicide by a willful militia dude with an AR15?
think what you wish for before it comes true.

I'm not wishing for anything whatsoever involving shooting another human being, please do not put words in my mouth (post). Also, I'm not some "militia dude" (I like bolt and lever rifles more than semi-autos, and prefer revolvers over other handguns), please do not portray me that way. As I said, I hope and pray that I am not put in such a situation but, if I do, I hope that I have the fortitude and the correct judgement to do the right thing.

 

[hminsky]

No firearms were used.

Children and adults, local residents and tourists were all among the dozens killed when a lorry ploughed into crowds.
Of the 86 who died, 10 were children and teenagers.
A total of 303 people were taken to hospital following the attacks, the health department said. Most of those who were killed died in the hours immediately after the attack.

Name a law that will stop this. If you have one great pass it. The guns didn't do anything, the sick f*** person did it.
it's not the NRA etc..

Exactly. And if the press cover that 24x7 for 10 weeks, you can bet there will be copycats. People are impressionable. Look at the epidemics of suicide that
sweep through communities sometimes. People are social animals that are compelled at an evolutionary level to want to copy what they see. We have to resist that
and the media does the opposite, it is like gambling, it co-opts our natural rewards system that wants to be part of a social interaction. How the f*** else do you explain Kardashians?

 

[weekendracer]

Three cops and he won without them dying? And the delay they caused still left him enough time to get inside and inflict around thirty casualties?

That all seems... unlikely. Not saying it didn't happen, but it's hard for me to think of a plausible way that it does.

Most cops can't shoot for shit. On a static range. Dynamic shooting? Laughable.

New report said shooter and another kid used to ride around with BB gun shooting people and cars. Don't know if true but earlier report said he never returned to school after Covid shutdowns.

If true, that's criminal behavior, why is there no criminal history being talked about? Never prosecuted?

it is a lot to ask from any human - to engage a runaway train maniac committing a suicide by police - armed with an AR and a full mag, when you only have a personal sidearm with one spare mag and no tactical gear on you.
especially if you are 50+ yr old, have a family to feed and other million reasons to hate the job you`re doing.

If you are worried about stuff like your last sentence, get another job. Again, I wish I could have been there.

View attachment 619796

As if 'most' of those SF guys are communists like the poster? I've met quite a few former SF guys, worked with them, I have yet to meet one that is rapid anti-gun. Some aren't 'gun dudes', but not anti-gun.

I get the impression that most of these SROs are there simply for the deterrent and/or security theater effects. When you get up into the high school level it ends up being more of a rapid response function for stuff like drugs, fights, etc.

My opinion as well. Cops aren't social workers, let the school personnel handle it unless it's criminal violence.

I don't know where Derek got that idea from and he hasnt replied to me. I do know that it's not a common thing and I do know that uniformed officers are not typically eliminated during school shootings.

If you 2 can present evidence that a hidden armed officer is a perk over a uniformed one, please by all means present it. I'm always open to changing my mind. In the meantime the problem that you are attempting to address does not appear to exist, and in reality a uniformed officer actually appears to be an effective out in the open deterrent.

And I suppose an important question to ask you guys is, say there is a cop whose plain clothes.... ok... isnt there a person shooting anyone and everything? wouldnt this plain clothed person be shot at on sight regardless? Couldnt a uniformed officer ambush a shooter the same way as a plain clothes? The entire scenario of a plain clothes officer having a benefit hinges on a shooter seeing said officer, not recognizing him as a threat and ignoring him. Seems unlikely.

I'm more a fan of a uniform at the front door, random movement, with trained and armed teachers who want to be armed. The school my kids are in now, the principal and several of their teachers are former military. Middle kid's science teacher handed out 'dog tags' to 'his' kids he had for the year.

Anyone know the immigration status of Mr Salvador Ramos?. Asking for a friend...

It's south Texas, you can't throw a rock without hitting someone with a Hispanic surname.

 

[Fixxah]

Truth.

Was TDY at Fort Polk Louisiana many years ago. Driving around that area you can tell it's poor folks. Every house is a run down Mobil home that's falling apart.....but in the driveway is a brand new pickup truck and a kick ass bass boat.

Gotta have priorities

In a flood the bass boat is a must.

 

[Dench]

I'm more a fan of a uniform at the front door, random movement, with trained and armed teachers who want to be armed. The school my kids are in now, the principal and several of their teachers are former military. Middle kid's science teacher handed out 'dog tags' to 'his' kids he had for the year.

No problem with that here. I know at my kids school the SRO's office is very close to the front door. Not in the lobby, but essentially next to it. He parks his car directly out front of the building also, so it's a clear sign that if someone's there to f*** around they are going to get resistance. I firmly believe that alone (just the car and the chance he's in the building) will deter most as these bad guys are never looking for a fight. They want to hurt/kill people and either commit suicide or surrender when they hit resistance. The key is getting that resistance immediately, so they either surrender or kill themselves before they get the chance to hurt someone.

 

[DW357]

Jesus Christ, makes my head hurt reading the crap from gun owners on various FB gun groups. 3 day waiting period, change long gun purchasing age to 21, red flag laws. Bunch of FUDDs

 

[SteelShooter]

Of course, many of the same people who believe 18-yo's are too immature to own guns also believe 16-yo's should be allowed to vote. Personally, I view a 16-yo possessing the vote to be a far greater threat to our country than an 18-yo possessing an AR.

The problem with such amazing coincidences as these shootings occurring on the eve of a major SCOTUS ruling on carry laws is that such coincidences fuel conspiracy theories. So in that vein, while there's no evidence in the affirmative, does anyone here not believe the CIA or another gov agency would be capable of engaging in psyops to turn disturbed young men into Manchurian Candidates? Given the recent leak of the Abortion draft opinion in an attempt to pressure the court, the timing of these shootings does cause an eyebrow to raise a bit.

I don't doubt hardly anything anymore that the .gov might be involved in.

 

[Dench]

I've asked the question before.....but wtf goes on in government schools such that these nuts go back into the schools they attended and shoot teachers and others that they frequently attended school with?

Its a common theme

They dont go to the mall, local park, beach, coffee shop or other places where there are congregations of people.....they go to their schools

Ask the people who sent them.

 

[SFC13557]

I pick my 2 grandson's up at daycare twice a week, they're 3 and 5. 5 yr old goes to kindergarten next year and thanks to some f****** moron I won't be able to drive to enter his school unless I disarm myself or run the risk of being a felon. Good thing he'll be taking the bus.

 

[SgtHal75]

Latest update, Mommy was junkie and he didn't have drivers license.

GrandDaddy was also a felon. Which means no guns in the house. Another law that should of stopped this a**h***

 

[drgrant]

The older and more grouchy I get the less and less I see these events as occurring organically. I'm not happy to say it and I'm not proud to say it. The fact that I have such low faith in the US government to think that there could even be a glimmer of a chance of a conspiracy is really sad. But it's how I'm starting to see things. Especially after all the insane bullshit of 2020/2021.

Jordan Peterson has an interesting thought experiment for these types of people. Put yourself into that shooters shoes. What would it take to get YOU to do that? You can't cop out and say you cant or wont, you have to get that dark and think about it. I can do this thought experiment to explain war crimes (which I believe is where he intended it to be used, specifically WWII holocaust) however, when it comes to mass murder of children... the wheels fall off. You have to get to Einsatzgruppen levels of insanity to get to that point. Which is why I start to lean towards things that are more likely, like brainwashing. Unless you're part of an organized state sanctioned death squad this sort of behavior is quite unusual to put it mildly.

Crazy people do crazy things. It's true. But Crazy people also tend not to do complicated or drawn out things. They are impulsive. The more complicated you make it typically means more shits involved in it. Buying guns, training on guns, buying gear, shooting your grandmother over an "argument" then driving your car to wreck it out front of the school to enter and continue on is a lot of work. And crazy people don't typically gravitate towards that much work. It's beyond an impulsive act, this moron was going for quite some time.

I don’t think they’re all conspiracy driven but I think some are, I think they figured out how to push known nutbags over the edge.

It also doesn’t help matters that there’s usually a paucity of evidence wrt motives etc.

The timing of these incidents seems to be way too coincidentally convenient, as well. This rarely happens, for example, during “boring” times.

 

[ProGun]

Jesus Christ, makes my head hurt reading the crap from gun owners on various FB gun groups. 3 day waiting period, change long gun purchasing age to 21, red flag laws. Bunch of FUDDs

Days like this I'm especially happy that my social media pretty much consists of just NES and a couple other forums dominated by conservative leaning people.

 

[Shark_Cage]

Maybe the Pope should concern himself with churches being burned to the ground everywhere.

Jesus should take better care of his houses

 

[SFC13557]

GrandDaddy was also a felon. Which means no guns in the house. Another law that should of stopped this a**h***

You gotta be a sick MFer to shoot your grandma in the face and massacre little kids. Glad he's dead unlike the POS shooter in Buffalo.

 

[Dench]

I don’t think they’re all conspiracy driven but I think some are, I think they figured out how to push known nutbags over the edge.

I see it as on a spectrum.



The Boston Bomber being on the low end of "could be a conspiracy." The older brother was a known violent criminal who was not a US citizen. Why is the US .gov allowing a non citizen to remain in country post violent crime arrest? Had they thrown that a**h*** out the bombing would never of happened (and potentially the other murders he was involved in previously). But, for reasons, the .gov decided that a violent man from another country could remain in the US even though he's not a citizen. If a federal officer could explain that one, I'd love to hear it.

As for the higher ends... its hard to say as obviously theres no proof. But the Vegas shooting in my mind ranks high up that scale. It's fishy as f*** and to this day has never been explained in any meaningful way. The official explanation is essentially a shoulder shrug from the feds. I don't buy it.

 

[bigbravehog]

this needs to be the norm at every school in the country

 

[Artifact]

this needs to be the norm at every school in the country

View attachment 619853

Do you think some of these guys read signs?

 

[eboos]

You gotta be a sick MFer to shoot your grandma in the face and massacre little kids. Glad he's dead unlike the POS shooter in Buffalo.

Problem is: if you are a useless POS, just end yourself. Don't go and shoot a bunch of people that had nothing to do with you being a useless POS.

 

[bigbravehog]

Do you think some of these guys read signs?

maybe not. Let then come on in and find out.

 

[allen-1]

Jesus Christ, makes my head hurt reading the crap from gun owners on various FB gun groups. 3 day waiting period, change long gun purchasing age to 21, red flag laws. Bunch of FUDDs

Shitcan your facebook account. My wife uses facebook, and she gets pissed off. I tell her that I don't get pissed off at people on facebook because I don't use it. The people behind their monitors banging angrily on their keyboards don't exist to me.

And then there's NES - that's my social media crack pipe.

 

[SFC13557]

Wow, Beto ORourke just made an appearance at the press conference and called out Abbott. What a POS, the Mayor just called him a sick SOB. Here we go.

 

[slugworth]

Wow, Beto ORourke just made an appearance at the press conference and called out Abbott. What a POS, the Mayor just called him a sick SOB. Here we go.

Dam I didn’t know that was him!

 

[Wooderson]

Wow, Beto ORourke just made an appearance at the press conference and called out Abbott. What a POS, the Mayor just called him a sick SOB. Here we go.

The mayor called out O'Rourke?

 

[SFC13557]

Dam I didn’t know that was him!

Yup, it was him. He's lucky he didn't get the shit kicked out of him. He's lucky one of the victims wasn't one of my grandsons or he would be in a world of hurt.

 

[slugworth]

The mayor called out O'Rourke?

Yes!!!!

 

[slugworth]

View: https://youtu.be/ibNEFzapnnM