204 inch free ranging buck killed in Georgia.

[joseph]

High school boy killed it in Worth County, Georgia with his bow.

Worth County 204-inch Giant, With A Bow!

 

[ccm75]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

 

[whacko]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

Nice buck and looks like perfect shot placement. Kudos to the kid.

As far as the bait.....meh....legal is legal. At least it was not a farm raised penned in beast like the ones you see taken on some of the "hunting" shows on outdoor life network.

 

[Fixxah]

Gonna be hard to top that one.

 

[45collector]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

I hear ya. Sometimes I feel bad about shooting ducks on the water or pheasants on the ground. But then when I'm making an epic meal out of them my guilty conscience slowly dissolves. LOL

 

[whacko]

I hear ya. Sometimes I feel bad about shooting ducks on the water or pheasants on the ground. But then when I'm making an epic meal out of them my guilty conscience slowly dissolves. LOL

Yeah.....don't know where that whole ethics thing about ducks on the water came from but if youve been out in the cold and wet for a few hours and some some ducks swim into your area of operations......boom boom boom......I see no issue with that at all.

 

[jhblaze1]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

agree...not sure there's much skill in that. Good for people who are only really interested in filling a freezer though.

 

[45collector]

agree...not sure there's much skill in that. Good for people who are only really interested in filling a freezer though.

Hunting for me is about the experience, enjoying the outdoors and the appreciating the animals that I'm trying to harvest. Top priority is to kill the game as quickly and cleanly as possible so their suffering is limited. I'm not a trophy hunter although I have one male Wood Duck I had mounted because they're so handsome. So as far as filling the freezer, I never really FILL it because I don't take that much game every season but I definitely get my share of meat for myself and my wife.

 

[45collector]

I'll add to that thought: I do enjoy wingshooting and practice fairly often at the trap/skeet range but like whacko said, when opportunity presents itself with an easy, clean shot and you've been skunked for days/ weeks. It's pew-pew-pew MF'ers!!!

 

[Mark from MA]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

Did you ever hunt a corn field? How about an oak ridge with acorns? How about over a field edge with clover? How about those old apple trees? All baited setups, maybe you didn't put it there, but big deal, its still baited with food to bring in wildlife. Most people around here have never baited and don't understand it's not some magic potion. It can actually be a hindrance and deer will either not touch it, or be noctournal on it or big bucks at certain times of the year won't even care about it.

Personally I just bowhunted Kentucky, and although the farmer put out corn, he did so without me asking. My best shot opportunities, were at the top of the oak ridge where the bucks were moving to sniff does, and he didn't bait those stands. I put cameras where he did bait piles of corn. I did much better at the unbaited setups where deer were travelling routes, and hearing my calling, as it was pre-rut seeking phase. Big bucks care little about food at this time.

Most of the deer were eating acorns, and only at night would they nibble the corn. Had I sat the baited setups I likely would have seen almost nothing, because the majority of the action on my cameras over bait were at night.

Fast forward about a week or two and the does on food during the daytime could have a buck traveling with them....absolutely a good time to be over a food source, if the deer are using it during the day, if not then your better off in between bedding and food. Or as close to bedding as possible without messing the area up. Food sources mean nothing if deer aren't using them during daylight hours.

 

[Mark from MA]

I hear ya. Sometimes I feel bad about shooting ducks on the water or pheasants on the ground. But then when I'm making an epic meal out of them my guilty conscience slowly dissolves. LOL

If your hunting alone, there is no dog/people around, pheasant on the ground is fine if you want. To me its not exactly about ethics, its more about safety. Clean kill, no issues meat is meat.

If you shoot a pheasant on the ground being worked by a dog, your an idiot, as you risk shooting someones dog.

This happened to me once with a client that I took on a hunt to a private club. My dog was working a bird in thick brush, and the bird popped out and he shot it on the ground.

Since he was a client I had to try to be polite, however, we had gone over not to shoot birds on the ground before hand and I thought it was understood, evidently not.

This time I was not as polite, I said to him, the dog is here to work for you, it will find the bird no matter where it goes, and put it in the air which is a more sporting way of shooting game. That is the goal here. Plus with the dog near the pheasant if you shoot on the ground you risk shooting my dog, which by the way, is my kids pet who sleeps with my kid every night in the same bed. If you shoot that dog even by accident, I will lose my shxt to the extent that you just shot my kids best friend. It will not end well for you, or me. So please, do not do that again. He apologized....and we moved on and was more clearly understood.

However, after that I never took anyone as a client out again on a hunt, the people I hunt with wouldn't think of shooting a bird on the ground EVER, and I know that, so that's who I hunt with. Shxt, even the kids we teach in youth pheasant would NEVER think of shooting a bird on the ground with a dog present.

 

[SpiderMA]

Nice buck.
I know they do things different in the south and state by state, but personally, I don't like the idea of shooting deer over bait.

I agree. And what’s up with the 60 day drying time. I assume that means he will not eat the kill?

 

[Mountain]

If your hunting alone, there is no dog/people around, pheasant on the ground is fine if you want. To me its not exactly about ethics, its more about safety. Clean kill, no issues meat is meat.

If you shoot a pheasant on the ground being worked by a dog, your an idiot, as you risk shooting someones dog.

This happened to me once with a client that I took on a hunt to a private club. My dog was working a bird in thick brush, and the bird popped out and he shot it on the ground.

Since he was a client I had to try to be polite, however, we had gone over not to shoot birds on the ground before hand and I thought it was understood, evidently not.

This time I was not as polite, I said to him, the dog is here to work for you, it will find the bird no matter where it goes, and put it in the air which is a more sporting way of shooting game. That is the goal here. Plus with the dog near the pheasant if you shoot on the ground you risk shooting my dog, which by the way, is my kids pet who sleeps with my kid every night in the same bed. If you shoot that dog even by accident, I will lose my shxt to the extent that you just shot my kids best friend. It will not end well for you, or me. So please, do not do that again. He apologized....and we moved on and was more clearly understood.

However, after that I never took anyone as a client out again on a hunt, the people I hunt with wouldn't think of shooting a bird on the ground EVER, and I know that, so that's who I hunt with. Shxt, even the kids we teach in youth pheasant would NEVER think of shooting a bird on the ground with a dog present.

You are doing it right.

It's been a couple years since I hunted in a group that included someone I didn't know. I don't plan on repeating that- not only for safety but for general enjoyment. It's no fun when someone has a negative attitude and/or gets greedy over who gets what bird. The friends I hunt with are just as if not more picky about their hunting partners, and we always share the meat. They have hunting dogs, I don't, but they know that I put their dogs first. I may be a little overly cautious about the shots I take, but they know that they and their dogs are always safe with me.

 

[whacko]

If your hunting alone, there is no dog/people around, pheasant on the ground is fine if you want. To me its not exactly about ethics, its more about safety. Clean kill, no issues meat is meat.

If you shoot a pheasant on the ground being worked by a dog, your an idiot, as you risk shooting someones dog.

This happened to me once with a client that I took on a hunt to a private club. My dog was working a bird in thick brush, and the bird popped out and he shot it on the ground.

Since he was a client I had to try to be polite, however, we had gone over not to shoot birds on the ground before hand and I thought it was understood, evidently not.

This time I was not as polite, I said to him, the dog is here to work for you, it will find the bird no matter where it goes, and put it in the air which is a more sporting way of shooting game. That is the goal here. Plus with the dog near the pheasant if you shoot on the ground you risk shooting my dog, which by the way, is my kids pet who sleeps with my kid every night in the same bed. If you shoot that dog even by accident, I will lose my shxt to the extent that you just shot my kids best friend. It will not end well for you, or me. So please, do not do that again. He apologized....and we moved on and was more clearly understood.

However, after that I never took anyone as a client out again on a hunt, the people I hunt with wouldn't think of shooting a bird on the ground EVER, and I know that, so that's who I hunt with. Shxt, even the kids we teach in youth pheasant would NEVER think of shooting a bird on the ground with a dog present.

Just a question......should nobody shoot cotton tails when your hunting with your dog?

Fwiw I hunt rabbit with a buddies dog....and guides all the time......you just have to know where the dogs are before you shoot. So Imo ground shooting is not ALWAYS a no no.
......you have to know the situation and know where the dogs are. I do get it though.....pointers are closer to the birds than beagles are to rabbits.......but if I'm out hunting rabbits on a power line and there are no wing hunters around me I'm taking the shot but....you covered that when you said if your alone.

 

[joseph]

whacko, I guess you have never hunted pheasants with an english setter because they will point a pheasant within a foot of the bird. Many dogs have been killed because of hunters shooting the bird on the ground and hit the dog with the same shot. It happens all the time.

 

[whacko]

whacko, I guess you have never hunted pheasants with an english setter because they will point a pheasant within a foot of the bird. Many dogs have been killed because of hunters shooting the bird on the ground and hit the dog with the same shot. It happens all the time.

Guess you didn't read my whole post. My last couple of sentences covers that.

I've hunted over pointers for birds and beagles for rabbit. I get it.....beagles are far from the rabbit and pointers are close up. My point......if I'm alone on a power line and no wing hunters are around I'm shooting a rabbit. It's not cut and dried that you never shoot on the ground is my point.

 

[Mark from MA]

Just a question......should nobody shoot cotton tails when your hunting with your dog?

No they shouldn't. In fact, they are told not to shoot at rabbits, or encourage the dog to chase rabbits. I don't want my dog chasing rabbits its a pointing bird dog. Most bird hunters will tell you the same thing, they try and keep their dogs off rabbits, and squirrels,etc.

Why, because the dog starts chasing rabbits, and then will range too far, and get sucked in to hunting stuff I don't want. Or worse, lose it's pointing instinct and start chasing and flushing birds wild. That already happens on occasion and is real tough stop.

Consider that each breed of dog is a separate specialized tool. I don't use a hammer if I need a saw, etc....If I wanted to hunt rabbits I'd get a beagle or a hound, those are chase dogs meant for that purpose. They are meant to be far away, and circle the game in your direction. Pointing dogs are meant to hunt relatively close or hold point far out until you can get to them. Then re adjust if needed. Two totally different games........ Can one dog hunt everything, yeah, probably, but it's not going to be as effective as having purpose bred breeds for each. Just as if your hunting ducks, you don't want a beagle or hound, or a most bird dogs....as they are too high strung or may not retieve game dropped into water. You want a lab who will sit still for hours in a blind, and natural instinct is to retrieve to hand.

For instance, my dog will stay close and point most of the time, and will retrieve to hand on land or water. She's swam to get many birds for other people that their dogs wouldn't. But if I made it sit in a duck blind, it would lose it's collective mind and be shaking like a leaf the whole time, and probably whining like a fool. It needs to run and seek.

As I said, no dogs or people around, dogs far off in a safe distance, shoot what is legal....don't care. I'm hunting a bird, bird gets pushed to other end of the field where you are, and pops out in the open, my dogs not around. Go ahead and blast away. No problem. Happens all the time, dogs push birds and they run, and dog cant keep up with scent trail and doubles back while bird is running its ass off.

Dog in bush next to pheasant that pops out. Or worse, is pointing pheasant and shoot bird on the ground..... Not good.

 

[whacko]

No they shouldn't. In fact, they are told not to shoot at rabbits, or encourage the dog to chase rabbits. I don't want my dog chasing rabbits its a pointing bird dog. Most bird hunters will tell you the same thing, they try and keep their dogs off rabbits, and squirrels,etc.

Why, because the dog starts chasing rabbits, and then will range too far, and get sucked in to hunting stuff I don't want. Or worse, lose it's pointing instinct and start chasing and flushing birds wild.

If I wanted to hunt rabbits I'd get a beagle or a hound.

As I said, no dogs or people around, dogs far off in a safe distance, shoot what is legal....don't care.

Dog in bush next to pheasant that pops out. Not good.

I was talking about if I'm by myself and there are bird hunters arpund but not in my direct area. I may have not made that clear. I know hitting rabbits around pointers trained on birds is not good.

Reason I ask......had a guy approach me two wweks ago on a power line that is wma stocked pheasant land when I was hunting alone. He was out with his pointer for pheasant. I had fired at a rabbit (and missed) that I kicked out of a brush pile. He and his dog were about 200 yards up the line on a hilltop. He promptly hurried my way and told me that ground shooting birds was "illegal". I told him I fired at a rabbit not a pheasant.....and that if your 200 yards away I'm not endangering you or your dog.....and to leave me alone. He went his way and I went mine but the experience was unpleasant.

 

[allen-1]

I agree. And what’s up with the 60 day drying time. I assume that means he will not eat the kill?

I believe that's the drying time before getting an official measurement on the rack.

 

[tuna]

I was talking about if I'm by myself and there are bird hunters arpund but not in my direct area. I may have not made that clear. I know hitting rabbits around pointers trained on birds is not good.

Reason I ask......had a guy approach me two wweks ago on a power line that is wma stocked pheasant land when I was hunting alone. He was out with his pointer for pheasant. I had fired at a rabbit (and missed) that I kicked out of a brush pile. He and his dog were about 200 yards up the line on a hilltop. He promptly hurried my way and told me that ground shooting birds was "illegal". I told him I fired at a rabbit not a pheasant.....and that if your 200 yards away I'm not endangering you or your dog.....and to leave me alone. He went his way and I went mine but the experience was unpleasant.

I can't stand people who make up laws to suit their taste. Should have told him that ground shooting gives you a better chance of recovering the bird, and makes you a better sportsman. Also ask what type of dog he has and say that those are only legal for grouse, tell him to look it up.

I don't have a dog, don't use a dog, don't like dogs, and WILL NOT hunt with a dog - they are a PITA in my opinion and I dislike seeing them when I hunt. (maybe I should tell people they're illegal to hunt with - which is true if I leave out the part about hunting deer). However, as much as I can't stand dogs, even the dumbest untrained mutt can find a downed bird in brush much better than I can. (yeah, yeah - well trained dogs, blah blah blah. Don't care, too many untrained dogs in the woods have ruined the idea of them being useful to me - it's my opinion and I can have one - pbbbbbbbt!)

That said, I do enjoy the challenge in wingshooting. It is the best part of the hunt to me, is making a good shot and watching the bird fall. Not much of a deer hunter (I do deer hunt, but it is my least favorite season) but that is a nice buck, glad that it was free ranging instead of a fenced hunt.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Hunting over bait is like steroids in baseball. Yea you still may have hit a lot of home runs, but there's a well-deserved asterisk there.

and hunting "high fence" is like T-ball.

You may have a nice set of antlers on the wall, but did you earn them? Were you respectful of the game and the chase? IMHO - no.

 

[whacko]

Hunting over bait is like steroids in baseball. Yea you still may have hit a lot of home runs, but there's a well-deserved asterisk there.

and hunting "high fence" is like T-ball.

You may have a nice set of antlers on the wall, but did you earn them? Were you respectful of the game and the chase? IMHO - no.

But...

"There is no such thing as a high fence squirrel"- Steve Rinella

That guy cracks me up.

 

[M1911]

That’s a nice buck.

 

[Mark from MA]

I was talking about if I'm by myself and there are bird hunters arpund but not in my direct area. I may have not made that clear. I know hitting rabbits around pointers trained on birds is not good.

Reason I ask......had a guy approach me two wweks ago on a power line that is wma stocked pheasant land when I was hunting alone. He was out with his pointer for pheasant. I had fired at a rabbit (and missed) that I kicked out of a brush pile. He and his dog were about 200 yards up the line on a hilltop. He promptly hurried my way and told me that ground shooting birds was "illegal". I told him I fired at a rabbit not a pheasant.....and that if your 200 yards away I'm not endangering you or your dog.....and to leave me alone. He went his way and I went mine but the experience was unpleasant.

Some of these uppity bird/dog guys with their fancy guns are like fly fisherman. They have their panties knotted up in a bunch. They don't hunt deer, they probably are FUDDS.....They make up their own ethics and rules and expect everyone to follow them.

Follow the rules of safety, and forget about everyone else's rules. Unless your hunting WITH them, then you should be on the same page I would expect. Many of these guys are like the Trap Diva's, elitists who I would never hunt or hang out with anyway. It won't be your last unpleasant experience, I'm sure...there are plenty of them around. I wish they would stop hunting state land and stay on the private preserves where they belong....but they are so fxcking cheap, they will buy a $2000 dog, and a $2000 dollar gun, but not want to spend a dollar on the hunt.

 

[Mark from MA]

Hunting over bait is like steroids in baseball. Yea you still may have hit a lot of home runs, but there's a well-deserved asterisk there.

and hunting "high fence" is like T-ball.

You may have a nice set of antlers on the wall, but did you earn them? Were you respectful of the game and the chase? IMHO - no.

LOL....your opinion. and my biggest deer has not been taken over bait...it's a 150 class that was taken in Western MA big woods.

You may be the best deer hunter in the world, but 100% of the time, it is the land you have access to and the time you have to hunt. You will always be beat out by someone that has better access to quality areas that hold big bucks. Getting that access is "earning" your deer. I have friends that hunt MA for two weeks solid. Yet I can hunt CT for a few days and likely Ill have seen 10 times more deer, even without bait, and likely have had an encounter or killed a big buck. Am I cheating? Should I feel like there is an asterisk next to my big buck. Fxck no....I'm being smart and spending my time where the deer are rather than wasting my time in MA where they aren't, or where I have to spend gobs of time trying to locate one.


Will you learn more about deer hunting where they aren't, absolutely, will it be more fulfilling when you get one, maybe. Is it some super hero feat...NO.

But in general, my goal is to put a big buck on the ground in limited time i have with vacation. I'm hunting where the deer are and spending my time trying to get access to those places. If I can bait, great, but 99% of the decent bucks I've taken have been rutting and chasing and have little to do with bait. In fact, during the rut, i never sit bait because the bucks are on travelling routes, so that's where I hunt.

 

[whacko]

LOL....your opinion. and my biggest deer has not been taken over bait...it's a 150 class that was taken in Western MA big woods.

You may be the best deer hunter in the world, but 100% of the time, it is the land you have access to and the time you have to hunt. You will always be beat out by someone that has better access to quality areas that hold big bucks. Getting that access is "earning" your deer. I have friends that hunt MA for two weeks solid. Yet I can hunt CT for a few days and likely Ill have seen 10 times more deer, even without bait, and likely have had an encounter or killed a big buck. Am I cheating? Should I feel like there is an asterisk next to my big buck. Fxck no....I'm being smart and spending my time where the deer are rather than wasting my time in MA where they aren't, or where I have to spend gobs of time trying to locate one.


Will you learn more about deer hunting where they aren't, absolutely, will it be more fulfilling when you get one, maybe. Is it some super hero feat...NO.

But in general, my goal is to put a big buck on the ground in limited time i have with vacation. I'm hunting where the deer are and spending my time trying to get access to those places. If I can bait, great, but 99% of the decent bucks I've taken have been rutting and chasing and have little to do with bait. In fact, during the rut, i never sit bait because the bucks are on travelling routes, so that's where I hunt.

Mostly agree.

Except for prebanmans opinion on high fence deer...that's the truth. A hunter that pays big money to shoot what equates to a farm raised deer in a zoo is just fooling himself.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

LOL....your opinion. and my biggest deer has not been taken over bait...it's a 150 class that was taken in Western MA big woods.

You may be the best deer hunter in the world, but 100% of the time, it is the land you have access to and the time you have to hunt. You will always be beat out by someone that has better access to quality areas that hold big bucks. Getting that access is "earning" your deer. I have friends that hunt MA for two weeks solid. Yet I can hunt CT for a few days and likely Ill have seen 10 times more deer, even without bait, and likely have had an encounter or killed a big buck. Am I cheating? Should I feel like there is an asterisk next to my big buck. Fxck no....I'm being smart and spending my time where the deer are rather than wasting my time in MA where they aren't, or where I have to spend gobs of time trying to locate one.


Will you learn more about deer hunting where they aren't, absolutely, will it be more fulfilling when you get one, maybe. Is it some super hero feat...NO.

But in general, my goal is to put a big buck on the ground in limited time i have with vacation. I'm hunting where the deer are and spending my time trying to get access to those places. If I can bait, great, but 99% of the decent bucks I've taken have been rutting and chasing and have little to do with bait. In fact, during the rut, i never sit bait because the bucks are on travelling routes, so that's where I hunt.

I think you're taking it personally bro. Like you said, just an opinion. But the fact that you feel like you need to defend baiting kind of tells me that deep down you feel that asterisk too. But it's all good. Like you said - just my opinion. If it's legal where you're at - have at it.

That said if it is your impression that there aren't deer in MA, I have to strongly disagree. There's a reason the state extended the season an additional 2 weeks this year for most of the zones in the state. We have a lot of deer here. Too many in fact. Maybe not the coveted big boys that roam Iowa, but we have a lot of deer here. Now maybe you have to travel to a different zone, but a blanket comment about the entire state is just, well, factually wrong. That's what the state's wildlife biologist responsible for managing and monitoring the herd say on the matter anyway. Not trying to offend bro, just stating the facts.

IDK why you went on about access, land, etc. Every hunter faces those challenges. My comments strictly revolved around bait and high fence. Hey if you like that stuff - more power too you. It's not like it makes you a bad person. But people who "hunt" like that are a rung below those who do not in my eyes. Don't really care if that opinion is shared by others or not. In my eyes - that's how it is. I don't consider it "hunting" so much as maybe "harvesting" would be a more appropriate word. There's no semblance of fair chase involved in bait or high fence. Really no pursuit or chase at all.

 

[whacko]

I think you're taking it personally bro. Like you said, just an opinion. But the fact that you feel like you need to defend baiting kind of tells me that deep down you feel that asterisk too. But it's all good. Like you said - just my opinion. If it's legal where you're at - have at it.

That said if it is your impression that there aren't deer in MA, I have to strongly disagree. There's a reason the state extended the season an additional 2 weeks this year for most of the zones in the state. We have a lot of deer here. Too many in fact. Maybe not the coveted big boys that roam Iowa, but we have a lot of deer here. Now maybe you have to travel to a different zone, but a blanket comment about the entire state is just, well, factually wrong. That's what the state's wildlife biologist responsible for managing and monitoring the herd say on the matter anyway. Not trying to offend bro, just stating the facts.

IDK why you went on about access, land, etc. Every hunter faces those challenges. My comments strictly revolved around bait and high fence. Hey if you like that stuff - more power too you. It's not like it makes you a bad person. But people who "hunt" like that are a rung below those who do not in my eyes. Don't really care if that opinion is shared by others or not. In my eyes - that's how it is. I don't consider it "hunting" so much as maybe "harvesting" would be a more appropriate word. There's no semblance of fair chase involved in bait or high fence. Really no pursuit or chase at all.

I was going to reply about the deer population in mass as well but you beat me to it. Zones 9-14 are loaded with deer. Yes....finding land is challenging east of 495 but the deer are definitely plentiful .

 

[ThePreBanMan]

Yea one may have to travel outside the 495 belt. Just too developed inside and the few big tracts of forest - like the Blue Hills, are closed to hunting or controlled hunts only. That's also why they have somewhere around 80 deer per square mile too. It's a big problem in those areas.

RI is another state I think has a rep for bad hunting that is not earned. Admittedly I do not know as much about the stats there. I buy tags in RI for Sunday hunting and hunting in Jan after MA closes basically. Their season is a month longer.. Think about why that would be for a moment.

Let me put it this way, I hunt public land in RI. I NEVER scout, ever. I'm just too lazy to drive out. I look at aerials, pick a few spots based on wind, terrain, etc. walk in around lunchtime with my stand & sticks on my back, find sign where I expected to based on aerials, set up for an evening hunt and see deer. Happens a lot. I would say 50% of the time.

They have a few big tracts of public land and not many hunters... I've only ever run into another archery hunter once out there, ever.. The lot is always empty, even the Sunday of opening weekend. Plus they let you gun hunt during the rut (smoke poles). It's an under rated state I feel.

Similar to Mass, don't expect to bag a trophy class Iowa like monster there, but they have high deer density and they're not too heavily pressured during archery seasons. Oh - they let you use crossbows too. No special stamps, etc.

....oh, but you can't bait there either.

 

[ccm75]

If MA was serious about getting a decent deer kill each year they'd let us hunt on Sundays.

AND start the season earlier...MA regular season is late compared to neighboring states and the rut can be winding down.

Years ago, NY changed their opening day from a Monday to a Saturday and opened Sunday hunting.

They also decreased the cost of nonresident tag - all to get more deer harvested.............