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2011 S&W Indoor Nationals: My brother and I met some average joes today...

Just make sure to get all the way off the trigger when you shoot it...
Other than that it's a pretty straight forward match.
 
Lugnut said:
It shouldn't matter much- just an observation- that is anti S&W to rotate that way. On the high hold- on a small gun that's exactly what you want to do... wtf!
Click to expand...

And it appears to be a shrouded hammer, which makes you want to move your hand even farther up. But if you do it, well, short-stroking will be the least of your concerns.[laugh] I suspect at least some of the people short-stroking were actually hitting the cylinder slightly open.
 
TheRoland said:
No idea, but I'm not sure it really matters.
Click to expand...
I agree that it doesn't matter in that sort of match situation, but I just wonder why they would do that in general. I'm not saying that rotating one way is good and the other way is bad. But it seems to be change for changes sake. Why not stay consistent?
 
Awesome pics man!

Underwhere said:
I got a procedural on another stage for my gun running dry but not going to slidelock and doing a reload.
Click to expand...

Nothing like a penalty for a random mechanical "malfunction" which you, most likely, had no control over. Instances like this are why I choose to participate in other shooting games.

If the pistol is empty, its empty. I don't understand why a penalty was issued. With a "malfunction" like that what would be the proper corrective action according to the rules? Stop, drop the mag, lock the slide open then insert a new mag and continue? I am not being a smart-ass, I am genuinely interested.
 
MFP 4073 said:
Nothing like a penalty for a random mechanical "malfunction" which you, most likely, had no control over. Instances like this are why I choose to participate in other shooting games.

If the pistol is empty, its empty. I don't understand why a penalty was issued. With a "malfunction" like that what would be the proper corrective action according to the rules? Stop, drop the mag, lock the slide open then insert a new mag and continue? I am not being a smart-ass, I am genuinely interested.
Click to expand...
I don't know. I'm taking an SO course this weekend, so I'm going to try to remember to ask that question.
 
MFP 4073 said:
If the pistol is empty, its empty. I don't understand why a penalty was issued. With a "malfunction" like that what would be the proper corrective action according to the rules? Stop, drop the mag, lock the slide open then insert a new mag and continue? I am not being a smart-ass, I am genuinely interested.
Click to expand...

Bad officiating, plain and simple. From the IDPA rulebook: "NOTE: The slide does not lock back on some guns. In that case,
the shooter will have to rack the slide. This is not grounds for a
procedural penalty."

M1911's case on the other hand is arguable. He did leave cover with an empty gun, he just didn't know it due to the slide not locking. I think that's worth a thread on the IDPA forum. I can see both arguments, but I'd lean toward the procedural. That doesn't mean I wouldn't plead my case if it happened to me in a match though.

Underwhere did absolutely nothing wrong. His gun malfunctioned, but the extra time to figure it out and fix it probably cost him some time.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I'd like to hear what you learn at the course, M1911, if you remember.

jar, if it is bad officiating, that particular individual should not be working the national level matches. I wonder if the call would have been the same if it happened to one of the big names...

Subjective rules stink... they can / will never be the same for all competitors.

Where are the scores posted. I want to see how some of my buds made out...
 
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MFP 4073 said:
jar, if it is bad officiating, that particular individual should not be working the national level matches. I wonder if the call would have been the same if it happened to one of the big names...
Click to expand...

I suspect the SO thought he had done a speed reload and didn't see him rack the slide. I can't imagine the SO not knowing this rule or him not arguing it.
 
MFP 4073 said:
jar, if it is bad officiating, that particular individual should not be working the national level matches.
Click to expand...
The reason I'm not shooting the match this year isn't the registration problems...

Subjective rules stink... they can / will never be the same for all competitors.
Click to expand...

Cover is really the only biggie that's impossible to enforce consistently. Unfortunately, that's one of the prime differentiators of IDPA.

Where are the scores posted. I want to see how some of my buds made out...
Click to expand...
They probably won't be posted online until the match is over for all competitors and the protest period closes. Preliminary scores are usually only posted on paper at the match.
 
MFP 4073 said:
Thanks for the replies guys. I'd like to hear what you learn at the course,(snip).

.
Click to expand...

What he should be told is:
IDPA RULE BOOK said:
Safety Officer (SO) Responsibilities.
1. Focus on the shooter’s firing hand and gun.
2. Remember that the shooter is always given the benefit of any
doubt.
54
3. Run contestants through a course of fire safely and smoothly
so that the shooter may enjoy the shooting experience.
4. Treat the shooter with courtesy and respect.
5. Answer all questions regarding the CoF.
6. Control all details of the CoF.
7. Define all muzzle safe points as directed by the CoF and
range.
8. SO should generally stand about three (3) feet to the side and
three (3) feet to the rear of the shooter. The safety officer must
be aware of his position as the competitor reholsters.
9. The SO should be on the gun hand side of the shooter. The
gun-hand side changes depending on CoF requirements.
10. SO should make sure they stay with the shooter, but not in
the shooter’s way.
Safety Officer Responsibilities in Sanctioned
Matches:
For sanctioned matches, the MD assigns a scorekeeper and SO
team to a particular course of fire for the entire match. The
scorekeeper and SO team make the match run much more
consistently and is recommended for local club matches as well.
Click to expand...
 
jar said:
Bad officiating, plain and simple. From the IDPA rulebook: "NOTE: The slide does not lock back on some guns. In that case,
the shooter will have to rack the slide. This is not grounds for a
procedural penalty."

Underwhere did absolutely nothing wrong. His gun malfunctioned, but the extra time to figure it out and fix it probably cost him some time.
Click to expand...

It def cost me time because when i was inserting the fresh mag I noticed the slide down...and thought to myself "sh*t did I load too many rounds in?" so I didn't even rack the slide and attempted to fire. Obviously it didn't and I had to rack and go.

MFP 4073 said:
Thanks for the replies guys. I'd like to hear what you learn at the course, M1911, if you remember.

jar, if it is bad officiating, that particular individual should not be working the national level matches. I wonder if the call would have been the same if it happened to one of the big names...

Subjective rules stink... they can / will never be the same for all competitors.

Where are the scores posted. I want to see how some of my buds made out...
Click to expand...

It was partly my fault for not pushing the issue...Just so much to think about and things were running so smooth I didn't want to hold anyone up by getting the match director. If the scores come out and that 3 seconds make a huge difference I'll just do it differently at the next major match.


Supermoto said:
Penalties in any sport should not be given out unless the RO/SO is absolutely sure
Click to expand...
He was absolutely sure...but he was wrong.
 
jar said:
M1911's case on the other hand is arguable. He did leave cover with an empty gun, he just didn't know it due to the slide not locking. I think that's worth a thread on the IDPA forum. I can see both arguments, but I'd lean toward the procedural. That doesn't mean I wouldn't plead my case if it happened to me in a match though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there was no doubt that I left cover with an empty gun. I didn't know it, but the gun sure was empty.
 
Underwhere said:
If the scores come out and that 3 seconds make a huge difference I'll just do it differently at the next major match.
Click to expand...

I guess at the end of the day we are there to have some fun. You have a great attitude toward it De. It just sucks when stuff like that happens - when the RO doesn't know the rules, makes a mistake, or has an axe to grind.

I had situation at a three gun (not USPSA) match a couple of years ago when I blasted the last round in my shot gun into the berm to empty it before moving on with my pistol. At the end of the stage the official made some snide remark about "gaming" and gave me a penalty. There was no rule that stated dumping into the berm was prohibited. I smiled, said thank you and went on to burn the next stage down too...
 
Man, next time I'm going to try for Saturday, this waiting three days for scores is killing me.

Who won the gun?
 
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The worst part is knowing that the scores are out there somewhere, just not anywhere I can get to them.
 
Lugnut said:
I think you did win a gun.. I don't recall the details- they gave a lot of stuff away.
Click to expand...

You should see him right now. He's laying down having a hernia trying to figure out what he won...wondering why no one called him, wondering how he's going to make room for whatever it is in his safe and planning a trip to the range to test it out.
 

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