2010 S&W Indoor IDPA Nationals

Supermoto said:
Well, if you are going to shoot crappy hits, you mights as well do it fast. no one wants to shoot slow and miss [wink]

Tension and expectation is what causes your eyes and hands to be slow. I feel it all the time when shooting Bill drills. I can't run splits under .18s because I'm trying to move my finger fast. If I just shoot, I can run .15s

Expectation is a killer, if you expect to go fast, you will sacrifices accuracy to do so
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When the hell is the spring getting here so we can get some good practice in? This winter stuff sucks!
 
Lugnut said:
When the hell is the spring getting here so we can get some good practice in? This winter stuff sucks!
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what do you mean? winter is a great practice aid!

I figure if you can do a 4.5 second el prez wearing long underwear in 10 degrees, just imagine how fast you will be able to do it in shorts and 80 degrees[smile]
 
Jay6 said:
what do you mean? winter is a great practice aid!

I figure if you can do a 4.5 second el prez wearing long underwear in 10 degrees, just imagine how fast you will be able to do it in shorts and 80 degrees[smile]
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Cold is ok... went to the range last week... was like a mud bath!! I don't like shooting indoors too much... :(
 
Jay6 said:
what do you mean? winter is a great practice aid!

I figure if you can do a 4.5 second el prez wearing long underwear in 10 degrees, just imagine how fast you will be able to do it in shorts and 80 degrees[smile]
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Did you hit anything???? [smile]
 
Dan S said:
Did you hit anything???? [smile]
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Not that crazy

Draw -1.0 second
5 .20 second transitions-1.0 second
Reload-1.5 seconds
5 .20 second transitions- 1.0 second
4.5 seconds

Broken down you could do any of these in that time frame individually. Just need to put them all together.
 
Jay6 said:
As you know there is a difference from doing it in practice and doing it in a match though[thinking]
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If you can do it in practice you can do it in a match. that a 100% if you got around 57 pts. When you break down what it needed, all classifier are easy, putting it all together is hard

we hijacked this thread
we need a Mod to separate all this talk out of the IDPA nationals match thread.
 
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Lugnut said:
I don't think we are really arguing, but saying something in different ways maybe. My point is at a given skill level... if you try to go too fast throughout the COF, there is a chance you won't being getting acceptable sight pictures and get inaccurate shots. I see it all the time with me and others... you push too fast and get crappy shots. It's not the actual shooting fast that is the problem it's the shooting too fast while not getting good shots! I train to shoot more efficiently... but there is a point where the eyes, hands, etc can't do what it needs to do in a shorter time. It happens to all of us one in a while.. otherwise we wouldn't get Mikes!
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The economy of motion that Supermoto refers to isn't just the shooting, it's all the movement between shots. Watch some of the videos of the top shooters, really watch them. The splits don't seem superhuman, they don't even seem to move fast, but they are smooth. That's where the speed comes from.
 
I shot the match today. Overall I think it was good match. Lot's of interesting stages, it was a good combo of short distance shoot em fast and long distance challenging shots. I echo some of the previous comments.

  • The "safety briefing" was the shortest of any sanctioned or club match I've ever been to.
  • I was mildly annoyed at how fast some the stages were taped. I like to see my targets before they are taped, you initial the score sheet to say you agree with the time and score. It's kind of hard to do when the SO's are scoring and taping while you are still shooting [thinking]
  • chrono: My loads made PF by a large margin out of my gun (M&P full size). However it could/should have been chrono'd out of a gun with the longest barrel in my division (G34 or M&P Pro).
  • 95% of the SO's were great. A few of them had some serious attitude. I had a question on a score and asked a question why it was -8 and not -7. The SO said "I can make it -9". I was like WTF? Some others on my squad had some issues as well.
It was fun, I wish I shot better and that is nobodies fault but my own.
 
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eisenhow said:
I shot the match today. Overall I think it was good match. Lot's of interesting stages, it was a good combo of short distance shoot em fast and long distance challenging shots. I echo some of the previous comments.

  • The "safety briefing" was the shortest of any sanctioned or club match I've ever been to.
  • I was mildly annoyed at how fast some the stages were taped. I like to see my targets before they are taped, you initial the score sheet to say you agree with the time and score. It's kind of hard to do when the SO's are scoring and taping while you are still shooting [thinking]
  • chrono: My loads made PF by a large margin out of my gun (M&P full size). However it could/should have been chrono'd out of a gun with the longest barrel in my division (G34 or M&P Pro).
  • 95% of the SO's were great. A few of them had some serious attitude. I had a question on a score and asked a question why it was -8 and not -7. The SO said "I can make it -9". I was like WTF? Some others on my squad had some issues as well.
It was fun, I wish I shot better and that is nobodies fault but my own.
Click to expand...

Agreed on the safety briefing. I think they wanted to run the stages very quickly and couldn't take too much time for the safety briefing. They have a medical/security staff on call as well as I think an Ambulance company next door to their shooting center.

I think I calculated my overall time at around 239 seconds. How'd you do?
 
eisenhow said:
  • The "safety briefing" was the shortest of any sanctioned or club match I've ever been to.
    • 95% of the SO's were great. A few of them had some serious attitude. I had a question on a score and asked a question why it was -8 and not -7. The SO said "I can make it -9". I was like WTF? Some others on my squad had some issues as well.
    It was fun, I wish I shot better and that is nobodies fault but my own.
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  • I agree with everything Mike said (I shot on his squad), but I quoted the main points I want to comment on.

    The briefing was a joke. I expected, for a match that had a SERIOUS safety issue last year, the briefing would at least be as thorough as a typical club match. There was nothing about safety or emergency procedures whatsoever.

    I lucked out and got a reshoot for no time recorded on a stage I got two procedurals on. When I went back, I asked a question on a scoring issue. When I didn't follow the SO's explanation, I restated my question, and the SO said "YOU DID BETTER THE SECOND TIME, *GET* *OFF* *MY* *STAGE*". I considered not budging and calling for the match director, but I wasn't shooting that well on the day anyway, so I just moved on rather than be late back to my squad and hold things up for the squad that let me jump in with the reshoot.

    Maybe the confusion was my fault, and maybe it was the SO's. That's not really what's important. What's important is that I paid good money for the match and deserve to get treated with some respect, as a customer.


    To the second point I quoted, I didn't do very well in the match, and it can pretty much all be laid on mental preparation. I just wasn't focused, and it showed with some really sloppy errors. IF I shoot this match again next year, I plan to get a hotel room the night before. The 2 hour drive, combined with an early start, made my alarm entirely too early.
 
jar said:
To the second point I quoted, I didn't do very well in the match, and it can pretty much all be laid on mental preparation. I just wasn't focused, and it showed with some really sloppy errors. IF I shoot this match again next year, I plan to get a hotel room the night before. The 2 hour drive, combined with an early start, made my alarm entirely too early.
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Staying the night definitely helped (except my girlfriend called me at 2AM and forced me to stay on the phone until past 3.
I think that's why I fell asleep between stage 10 and 11.

If I had driven that morning at 5:00 to get there I think I would have been all sorts of messed up for the day.
 
Mike, Jeff
Gentlemen first of all I'm going to take into account the fact that your comments are coming soon after shooting one of if not the biggest match of your IDPA experience and you have not yet come down from your disappointing performances, trust me I understand. Now with that being said I'm one of the SO's of this match I worked Stage 3 you know me or at the least have seen me I ALWAY'S wear my POW.MIA cap.
first let's be clear this is "NOT" a club match.
I didn't attend your Match briefing, that's pretty match what it is a MATCH BRIEFING again this is not a club match it's not your responsibility to call 911 go stand at top top of the hill to direct the EMT's, or know where to locate the telephone in the club house that's not you job, God forbid we should have a issue just get the hell out of the way plan and simple it's our job and the EMT that you walked by all day and Jeff please don't comment on something you obviously have not a clue there was one and only one safety related issue last year and that was a shooters error when holstering a hot gun the man was a seasoned IDPA shooter and a retired Marine, a 15min. safety briefing would not have prevented that accident.
and I whole heartly apologized for any rude behavior from any SO's and I mean that you are a customer and should be treated as such and I know you all were treated as such on my stage, but also you have been around long enough to know you are hard pressed to toss over fifty SO in to a match without a few rotten ones and again if you had a issue I'm sorry maybe next year you can bring your expertise to the match.
I hope for your sake and your wallet you choose skills over your nerves at your next sanction match and I'm sure your match well be much more pleasant.
If I offended you in anyway just know it was not my intension I'm tired it's been along day and I need to get ready and run over seventy more shooters somw wth fingers on the tiggers while reloading, hand shaking, muzzles pointing in places they just don't belong. you know gotta love it.
any questions about waht I said here just ask the next time you see me.
John
 
I think its natural that mostly everyone is going to feel that they could have performed alot better at every match. I thought I did horrible at the regoinals last year when I added my scores up. Come to find out that I did alot better than I thought I did. This match was a great learning experience for me. I really found out where my weaknesses are, some physical but for the most part mental. With that said, expect to see some new props added to the WPR trailer very soon. Thank you to everyone that helped put this match together and all the SO's.
 
Papa Rock said:
Mike, Jeff
Gentlemen first of all I'm going to take into account the fact that your comments are coming soon after shooting one of if not the biggest match of your IDPA experience and you have not yet come down from your disappointing performances, trust me I understand.
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Was I happy with how I shot, NO. Reread my comments, I don't think I was bitching or complaining. I was addressing some of the previous comments by others in this thread.

Papa Rock said:
Now with that being said I'm one of the SO's of this match I worked Stage 3 you know me or at the least have seen me I ALWAY'S wear my POW.MIA cap.
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John, I know who you are. I'm trying to kiss ass but I can say that Stage 3 was the most professionally run stage. The CSO explained exactly what he was looking for in terms of cover (watching the feet) and what he was expecting from the pickup gun string. He also made a point that the shooter was welcome to examine the targets before they were taped. Stages 11/12 would get my vote the friendliest/funniest crew (while still being safe & professional).

Papa Rock said:
first let's be clear this is "NOT" a club match.
I didn't attend your Match briefing, that's pretty match what it is a MATCH BRIEFING again this is not a club match it's not your responsibility to call 911 go stand at top top of the hill to direct the EMT's, or know where to locate the telephone in the club house that's not you job, God forbid we should have a issue just get the hell out of the way plan and simple it's our job and the EMT that you walked by all day and Jeff please don't comment on something you obviously have not a clue there was one and only one safety related issue last year and that was a shooters error when holstering a hot gun the man was a seasoned IDPA shooter and a retired Marine, a 15min. safety briefing would not have prevented that accident.
Click to expand...
This was only my 3rd sanctioned match (NER & Chili Monkey), I've been shooting IDPA for less than a year. I wasn't complaining about the briefing, just acknowledging that it seemed extraordinarily short. I did see the EMT's walking around later in the day. I think it would have been beneficial to say something at the briefing. They could have said "we have EMT's in the building and to stay out of the SO's way if there is an incident."

Papa Rock said:
and I whole heartly apologized for any rude behavior from any SO's and I mean that you are a customer and should be treated as such and I know you all were treated as such on my stage, but also you have been around long enough to know you are hard pressed to toss over fifty SO in to a match without a few rotten ones and again if you had a issue I'm sorry maybe next year you can bring your expertise to the match.
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I understand that everyone there is volunteering. I try to wait to ask questions until the stage briefing is finished, come to the line ready, and the thank the SO's after each stage. I don't fight for ever point but if I don't understand or have a question I ask it in a polite way. I'm looking forwarding to taking my SO class in March and have already signed up to help at NER.

Papa Rock said:
I hope for your sake and your wallet you choose skills over your nerves at your next sanction match and I'm sure your match well be much more pleasant.
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As I said in my previous post "It was fun, I wish I shot better and that is nobodies fault but my own." The fact that more power went out Thursday night and I got ready by flashlight didn't help. [wink]

Papa Rock said:
If I offended you in anyway just know it was not my intension I'm tired it's been along day and I need to get ready and run over seventy more shooters somw wth fingers on the tiggers while reloading, hand shaking, muzzles pointing in places they just don't belong. you know gotta love it.
any questions about waht I said here just ask the next time you see me.
John
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John, thanks for your work at the match.
 
Papa Rock said:
Mike, Jeff
Gentlemen first of all I'm going to take into account the fact that your comments are coming soon after shooting one of if not the biggest match of your IDPA experience and you have not yet come down from your disappointing performances, trust me I understand. Now with that being said I'm one of the SO's of this match I worked Stage 3 you know me or at the least have seen me I ALWAY'S wear my POW.MIA cap.
first let's be clear this is "NOT" a club match.
I didn't attend your Match briefing, that's pretty match what it is a MATCH BRIEFING again this is not a club match it's not your responsibility to call 911 go stand at top top of the hill to direct the EMT's, or know where to locate the telephone in the club house that's not you job, God forbid we should have a issue just get the hell out of the way plan and simple it's our job and the EMT that you walked by all day and Jeff please don't comment on something you obviously have not a clue there was one and only one safety related issue last year and that was a shooters error when holstering a hot gun the man was a seasoned IDPA shooter and a retired Marine, a 15min. safety briefing would not have prevented that accident.
and I whole heartly apologized for any rude behavior from any SO's and I mean that you are a customer and should be treated as such and I know you all were treated as such on my stage, but also you have been around long enough to know you are hard pressed to toss over fifty SO in to a match without a few rotten ones and again if you had a issue I'm sorry maybe next year you can bring your expertise to the match.
I hope for your sake and your wallet you choose skills over your nerves at your next sanction match and I'm sure your match well be much more pleasant.
If I offended you in anyway just know it was not my intension I'm tired it's been along day and I need to get ready and run over seventy more shooters somw wth fingers on the tiggers while reloading, hand shaking, muzzles pointing in places they just don't belong. you know gotta love it.
any questions about waht I said here just ask the next time you see me.
John
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If your who i think you are then your exactly what IDPA needs .I personally want to thank you for your time and patience with all shooters and attention to safety . Keep up the good work it does get noticed and it's appreciated.
 
This has been my favorite S&W indoor champs to date. Definitely more relaxed than in past years. I liked the emphasis on charging / disappearing targets plus the lighting added great challenges.

The SO's did a very good job all around and just as efficient as the WPR Club (Plug for team :) I had a squad mate protest a score on stage 12 and the SO staff could not have been more hospitable. If any of you had issues with staff, let Tom Yost or JJ know. If they have a dink on staff, they need to be aware of it.

The briefing was different from any past matches. I think most of us were expecting more. Basically all that was done was a verbal on squadding and what stages we were to begin on. Fine by me. The only thing I really miss is the match shirt.

My calcutor came up with 239.3 for my time.
 
A match shirt would have been nice [smile]

For the most part, I thought the SO's were great. I tried to thank them for their effort after running me each stage.

My calculator came up with 226.95... but it could be wrong [grin]
 
Papa Rock- you rock! Seriously, great time and a great bunch of SOs... for all the SOs I saw I think they were all awesome.... maybe one that was a tad on demanding/grumpy side but still- great time! This was a challenging match and things didn't exactly go the way I would have liked- but being with great people is what makes these days still a blast. I thank Papa Rock and the entire team for the huge efforts is took to pull this one off. Thank you so much.
 
Papa Rock said:
Mike, Jeff
Gentlemen first of all I'm going to take into account the fact that your comments are coming soon after shooting one of if not the biggest match of your IDPA experience and you have not yet come down from your disappointing performances,
Click to expand...

This is quite the douchebag statement Their criticism is not valid because of their performance. Amazing
 
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Guy's Mike & Jeff I apologies I jumped on you for emotionally making a comment, and after a day I realize I too was guilty of the same so please except my apology.
I too have not been playing this game for very long (My Uncle Sam only let me play with long gun's) but when I started I watched the same SO's at the S&W club matches run shooters three times a month those gentlemen set up the night before and would run it the following day, what makes someone do that to take that much of there own time.
It just baffles the mind, then I was asked by Gene and Mike at the 2009 Winter Nation banquet if I would be interested in working with them at the NER that year I accepted and my IDPA experience has not been the same since The work setting up HELL and shooting it as a safety officer SUCKED "but then you run shooters" and then and only then do you realize what it's all about.
I work a stage with a CSO named John Kelly enough said..................
On a final note you need to know the man who was the match director at this years Winter national Mr. Frank Glover ( some of you weren't coddled enough by his briefing) is top notch that man knows how to run a match he owns the Range in Oxford NC. and runs the Carolina Cup and if you ever wish to travel make that match but know this things are different below the Mason Dixon some of us dumb Yankees made the trip last year walk in to the club house and ask wheres the safe table they looked at us like we were from another planet they said unbag at your dam car just don't shoot the dam thing. :)
I'd move tomorrow if I could............
Dusty, Lugnut Thank You, Supermoto if it was I you were quoting don't leave part of it out that's so Bullshit I ended that statement with Trust me I understand you kinda forgot that part. shame shame...........
Remember when you go to bed tonight God Bless a Soldier. I will.................

The match is over, the banquets done and I'm twenty beers in, time to kick the crew out and crash Polar rifle match tomrrow :)I hate this dam keyboard
John
 
Radio said:
CDP Marksman
1 Doti, Dennis 287.56

Looks like our own Dennis won 1st place in his division! Congratulations Dennis!!!!!!
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Nice shooting Dennis. I thought you were shooting well from what I saw. Congrats on the bump to Sharpshooter!
 
Good job Dennis and also Mike. To everyone in my squad I had a great time shooting with you all and I look forward to doing it again.

To all of the SO's and the MD, thank you. I can only imagine how much work you all put in and I am very grateful. Thanks again and see you next year.
 
Congrats also to Papa Rock himself (3rd, ESP/SS) and MetroWest Tactical's ace Gene Gelberger,
(1st, SSR/EX).

Mad props to both for an outstanding showing!

(PR, how long has Andrew been ESP/MA? Congrats to him!)
 
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Videos:
They will be higher quality once Youtube processes them again

Hanwei

Underwhere
 
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