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JRT said:
That’s an interesting experience with the ELD-X. It’s been the opposite for me, I’ve used the 103 ELD-X for three years now and it’s devastating. This year the heart was attached at the top and it looked like it had been blown open into 4 equal pieces. I took the shot and all I saw were his four legs pointing straight up in my scope, he flopped over and never moved, it was like something from a cartoon.
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Thats what happens when you get a solid vital hit, they aint going far.
 
josie wales said:
Ok ....I have to give my two cents. Why not a 30-06? Gun shows have a lot of beautiful rifles chambered in 30-06. Think about versatility of the FUDD 30-06. I have shot paper patched #1 buckshot up to 220 grain Woodleighs out of mine. It will harvest any and all game found in the lower 48 states and yes it will take down a Brownie in Alaska. It is the round you will find in a Mom and Pop store when you have an "OH shit" moment when your bullets didn't arrive with your gun. I still see the 30-06 on a 1000 yd range with "older shooters". Try to find a 60's-70's Remington 700 with a Walker Trigger ( best trigger ever!!!!). This gun will serve you well.
Also getting on the bandwagon for a 6.5 Creedmoor you will have to dye your hair blue, sport a man bun. wear sandals everywhere and be gay curious.
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I think the 30-06 gets a bit limitted when using light bullets. Im finding other than powder puff gallery loads that 06 is more “picky” to case fill . Im not usually a push them fast reloader but I have tried to push some 30-06 110s pretty fast that just dont do well ?
 
Path-Finder said:
I also thought about 223 but I'm getting an SPRish upper for that. It seems like the 308 would be the way to go simply for the ammo availability. I'm not a handloader and didn't plan on getting into it.
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If your not going to hand load maybe 6.5 would be better?

IDK its a different question
6.5 vs 308 which has the better chance for accuracy with “factory” ammunition.
You going to find 6.5 already loaded with some fancy bullets.
308 — not so much maybe some 168 match?
Whats the comparable weight ELD 308 bullet out there that comes close to BC of the 6.5?
 

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No 6.5CM to be found at TSUSA. And no plans to reload. I think 308 would make more sense I think?

Then again, inside 300 yards wouldn't this 69 gr SMK 223 ammo work well? Assuming you've got a good barrel with the correct twist for that bullet weight etc etc? Little cheaper than the 308 SMK ammo. Just throwing it out there. I know the OP said he doesn't want 223 as he's got another upper for that caliber.

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FiremanBob said:
How much 6.5CM will you find in the NG armory when TSHTF?
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No more nor less in reality than you will find for 308? In theory, you have a point. In reality? I'm going with no. If the total SHTF tinfoil fap fest scenario happens, folks better be able to roll their own just like the Khyber Pass mini factories we see on U-tube.
 
Mountain said:
No more nor less in reality than you will find for 308? In theory, you have a point. In reality? I'm going with no. If the total SHTF tinfoil fap fest scenario happens, folks better be able to roll their own just like the Khyber Pass mini factories we see on U-tube.
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I’m going to stockpile 26 Nosler, everybody will leave me alone that way. If you load up on SHTF fap fest 223 and 308 everybody is going to try to kill you.
 
MC56 said:
Assuming the OP has made the sensible decision to avoid a factory R700, the Tikka .223 varmint comes in 8tw and 11tw.
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Either my Google-fu is garbage, or there are no Tikkas in 223 anywhere, at any price, right now. I've been looking since the beginning of COVID. Occasionally, I've seen one or two on Gunbroker for nearer $1K than MSRP. I would love to be pointed to a source that's not a scam (looking at you, tikkafirearmstore...)
 
JRT said:
At 300 yards a 6.5 143g ELD-X has more energy than a 308 150g. You all keep moving that distance out.

Totally agree, buying a modern 700 is a bad decision.
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6.5 in 143 gr is heavy for caliber. 7.62 in 150 gr is light for caliber. regarding KE, its a bit apples and oranges and not typically the primary basis of a cartridge choice.

the main benefits to the 6.5 are wind drift and ballistic coefficient, neither of which shine until one is past 600 yards. the 6.5 will also require more barrel length ~4” more to achieve comparable powder burn to a .308
 
Mesatchornug said:
Either my Google-fu is garbage, or there are no Tikkas in 223 anywhere, at any price, right now. I've been looking since the beginning of COVID. Occasionally, I've seen one or two on Gunbroker for nearer $1K than MSRP. I would love to be pointed to a source that's not a scam (looking at you, tikkafirearmstore...)
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Don't forget CZ.
 
92G said:
6.5 in 143 gr is heavy for caliber. 7.62 in 150 gr is light for caliber. regarding KE, its a bit apples and oranges and not typically the primary basis of a cartridge choice.

the main benefits to the 6.5 are wind drift and ballistic coefficient, neither of which shine until one is past 600 yards. the 6.5 will also require more barrel length ~4” more to achieve comparable powder burn to a .308
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143 grain ELD-X is absolutely the preferred 6.5 for killing big game. Fair point on the 308, the ELD-X is 178 grain and that will push it out to past 500. I picked 150 grain because I thought everybody used the Barnes Vor-TX TYSX 150 grain.
 
308 for practicality.

6.5 if you either have access to a long distance range or fantasize about shooting something a mile away during a zombie apocalypse.
 
92G said:
the main benefits to the 6.5 are wind drift and ballistic coefficient, neither of which shine until one is past 600 yards. the 6.5 will also require more barrel length ~4” more to achieve comparable powder burn to a .308
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Reduced recoil and great sectional density are also main benefits of the 6.5. Because of the sectional density, a 6.5 can achieve the same penetration as a heavier 308 bullet, which enables equal penetration with less recoil. There’s a reason why 6.5 Swede is effective against moose.

But regarding the powder burn, that’s not accurate, and it’s also moot. 99% of the powder in both burns within the first few inches. Just because the bullet is still accelerating at 18” of barrel doesn’t mean the powder is still burning. It just means that the massive chamber pressure is still a heck of a lot greater than atmospheric pressure and so the bullet will continue to accelerate.

What you’re probably talking about is pressure within the barrel and how it is applied to the bullet. For the same chamber pressure, there will be more pressure applied to a 308 bullet than a 6.5 bullet, because of the surface area of the bullet. So, given an equal bullet weight and equal chamber pressure, the 6.5 will take longer to accelerate to the same velocity as the 308. That becomes less of an issue with normal bolt action rifle lengths. But it does lend the 308 to lose less velocity as you chop the barrel down.

But why I say it’s moot is because even with slightly less efficient utilization of the powder, a shorter 6.5 CM (16”) will still have a greater hit probability than a longer 308 (20”). The main advantage of 308 is energy, whether it be used to punch through wild boar bone plates or to break apart concrete cover with a machine gun.

USSOCOM has been playing with 14.5” 6.5 CMs to great effect. Small enough to maneuver in tight quarters, but with the external and terminal ballistics of a 24” 6.5 Grendel (if Grendel could shoot 140s). 6.5 CM does pretty well in a short(er) barrel.
 
Mesatchornug said:
Either my Google-fu is garbage, or there are no Tikkas in 223 anywhere, at any price, right now. I've been looking since the beginning of COVID. Occasionally, I've seen one or two on Gunbroker for nearer $1K than MSRP. I would love to be pointed to a source that's not a scam (looking at you, tikkafirearmstore...)
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You are correct that they're out of stock from retailers, but they are still out there on the used market. I've seen at least 3 on snipershide in the past month.
 
LuvDog said:
Same here... I think it will unseat the Tikka as the preferred platform for semi-custom once the after market catches up
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Doubt it. Nobody is going to make prefit barrels for it, so you'll be stuck with whatever contours, lengths, twist rates and chamberings offered by CZ.
 
Remington 700s started in 1962 and began to suck somewhere around 2007. They were the best available for 45 years until the company was sold down the river.. plus some dipshits liked to pull the trigger when the safety was on and had no clue on muzzle discipline. I have a VLS in .223 and a Varmint in .308. Both were made in the 80's, 90's time frame. Excellent rifles. It is sad that people like to $hit on Remington with no idea about their history and probably no personal experience. More custom rifles have been built on 700 actions than any other with the possible exception of Mauser. For a real Fudd vs. Future, get a 6.5x55. It will do 95 percent of the 6.5 man bun but in a long action. Look at CZ for one or find a 700 made from 1980 - 1995 in .308.
 
PappyM3 said:
Reduced recoil and great sectional density are also main benefits of the 6.5. Because of the sectional density, a 6.5 can achieve the same penetration as a heavier 308 bullet, which enables equal penetration with less recoil. There’s a reason why 6.5 Swede is effective against moose.

But regarding the powder burn, that’s not accurate, and it’s also moot. 99% of the powder in both burns within the first few inches. Just because the bullet is still accelerating at 18” of barrel doesn’t mean the powder is still burning. It just means that the massive chamber pressure is still a heck of a lot greater than atmospheric pressure and so the bullet will continue to accelerate.

What you’re probably talking about is pressure within the barrel and how it is applied to the bullet. For the same chamber pressure, there will be more pressure applied to a 308 bullet than a 6.5 bullet, because of the surface area of the bullet. So, given an equal bullet weight and equal chamber pressure, the 6.5 will take longer to accelerate to the same velocity as the 308. That becomes less of an issue with normal bolt action rifle lengths. But it does lend the 308 to lose less velocity as you chop the barrel down.

But why I say it’s moot is because even with slightly less efficient utilization of the powder, a shorter 6.5 CM (16”) will still have a greater hit probability than a longer 308 (20”). The main advantage of 308 is energy, whether it be used to punch through wild boar bone plates or to break apart concrete cover with a machine gun.

USSOCOM has been playing with 14.5” 6.5 CMs to great effect. Small enough to maneuver in tight quarters, but with the external and terminal ballistics of a 24” 6.5 Grendel (if Grendel could shoot 140s). 6.5 CM does pretty well in a short(er) barrel.
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It gets so wrapped up in numbers and end use.
Just by Hornady info ELD match
The heavy 6.5 is 147 with a BC of .697 at mach2.25 the closest 308 is the 155 .461 at mach 2.25
So theres a bit of difference right there
Thats pushing them at 2500+ fps
It drops off after 300 yards for sure.
I guess its down to what your expectations are and how much you want to spend to get there?
I wonder what the BC is on a 135gn 308 pushing 3000 fps is?
 
Boghog1 said:
But you didn't say where you work, I mean if it's Starbucks...
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Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself. No need to drag me into it. You can always ride down to P-town if thats your thing. Or maybe you're more of a rest stop kinda guy?

mac1911 said:
But why ? Did they do it cause its the new cool thing to do? Are they poking at deer and hogs at long range.
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Well, considering they have access to a farm/ farms , by either a relative or a lease, yea I'd say its about 2-300 on average.
Hogs they take in packs, so they're not shooting a one-and-done. No idea how much ammo they go through on a hog trip.
They don't reload, no need to. Theres chain stores down here that actually sell firearms and ammo, not just NorthFace jackets. Sportsmans Warehouse and Academy are the 2 biggest ones around here.
 
Mesatchornug said:
"this item is out of stock and cannot be backordered"
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FiremanBob said:
How much 6.5CM will you find in the NG armory when TSHTF?
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I love these hypotheticals but I love to play! Just came back from BassPro. Easily 50,000 rounds of 223, 10,000 rounds of of 40, about 2000 rounds of 9mm(mostly hollow point, maybe 500 rounds of 308. Perhaps TSHTF requires that we buy 223 and 40 cal ammo only!

Let's move up to level 2 of this mental exercise: Ammo that stays on the shelves is the one with the least demand. In other words, ammo like 6.5CM is very popular and people are buying it up as much as possible and hoarding it up. When the proverbial doo-doo hits the fan, 74.7234% of the population will turn into zombies, leaving their stashes of ammo available for easy pickings. That means that 6.5CM will be much more available than 308.

6.5CM rifles have historically cost more than 308. Today, there is a shortage of 308 rifles out there, bringing up the price of rifles to insane levels. $850 for the crappy Remington 700 in 308! 6.5CM is cheaper than 308 by 40%. at some point,
 
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