Will ATF approve short barreled shotgun for MA resident

I'm pretty sure they are approving SBRs as long as you provide proof that it was purchased/registered in MA prior to 7/20.
 
The Shockwave letter pretty much killed SBS transfers from a FFL. A SBS would be a firearm and would be needed to be tested and come from the factory with a short barrel.
(Cant Form 1 a SBS due to state law)
 
MGL makes it a felony to possess a SBS unless it left the factory in that condition. That means you can't legally convert anything.

Then you run into the issue mentioned above wrt the Shockwave interpretation.
 
Resurrecting this thread.

What about building an SBS from a virgin receiver with documentation to prove it's virginity?

Also, there are people in Mass who own Shockwaves. Can they Form 1 them and attach a buttstock?
 
From Chapter 140 Sec 121
''Sawed-off shotgun'', any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
From Chapter 140 Sec 121
''Sawed-off shotgun'', any weapon made from a SHOTGUN, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
Click to expand...

According to our overseers, Shockwave is a handgun. I don't see anything in MGL's wrt converting a pistol into a shotgun.
 
Yes, they approve them, though they asked for a picture and a confirmation that it was not an assault weapon. Which as a 12 gauge pump, it really wasn't.

Has a stock, they are out there and there are used ones fairly cheap on a lot of the auction sites.
 
If I had the acumen and BAR etc I'd become an NFA attorney and practice in MA... someone needs to slap around the state a little bit. It's pretty obvious to me that EOPS and the AG are up to their usual smoke-blowing, BS trying to convince NFA tech branch that water is not wet and the sky isn't blue... and when they have the only voice in the room they get listened to and taken as gospel.
 
drgrant said:
If I had the acumen and BAR etc I'd become an NFA attorney and practice in MA... someone needs to slap around the state a little bit. It's pretty obvious to me that EOPS and the AG are up to their usual smoke-blowing, BS trying to convince NFA tech branch that water is not wet and the sky isn't blue... and when they have the only voice in the room they get listened to and taken as gospel.
Click to expand...


Does the ATF tech branch need convincing, or do they just see a letter from a states AG and automatically agree with the state ?
I have always felt like the ATF rules on the federal level, and delegates the dealers to enforce the state laws while taking an AG guidance as law for that state.
 
MGL makes it illegal to possess any short-barreled shotgun UNLESS it was built that way by the mfr. So one can't modify a shotgun legally in Mass to be "short-barreled".

ETA: Nothing to do with the rabid AG. It's been in MGLs for a long time that way.
 
Noreaster78 said:
Does the ATF tech branch need convincing, or do they just see a letter from a states AG and automatically agree with the state ?
I have always felt like the ATF rules on the federal level, and delegates the dealers to enforce the state laws while taking an AG guidance as law for that state.
Click to expand...

They need someone with chops in NFA law that has an ESQ after their name to convince them that the state is actually lying to them about what the laws
actually say.

ATF does this BS for a couple of reasons:

-They have some BS in US code that more or less mandates that the issuance of a stamp to an individual is contingent on obedience to local laws
-They know that if shitty laws exist and they can justify using them, they can shut down applications and hence have less applications to process to begin with.

ETA: MOST OF THE TIME in america, this is not a problem. But most states, likely have AGs offices that act in GOOD FAITH, and try to be what I would call "legally puritanical" instead of allowing their political positions to come before proper interpretation of the law. Obviously in MA this has all gone out the window on 7/20, and to some degree or another, it's quite obvious whoever is running EOPS has basically rolled out the red carpet for the AG and let her goons come in there and boss them around. (these would be people way above anyone you've ever met at EOPS, the ones pulling the strings stay in the shadows, because they don't want to be the ones getting yelled at, etc. Or having good attorneys lay into them etc. ) There used to be a sort of "intermediate barrier" between EOPS and the AG for good reason, and now that barrier is basically gone. (although in this case it doesnt matter so much, because BATFE likely believes anyone with some official state position wrt guns will tell them. )

-Mike
 
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If you want an SBS, just buy a factory SBS. there are used ones on many of the auction sites for reasonable money or buy a new one, they are still made and you can get them transferred still. Or at least you could last year. And I have not heard of any changes since then.

ATF did ask for a picture to prove it is not an AW and covered by the AWB.
 
bfm said:
If you want an SBS, just buy a factory SBS. there are used ones on many of the auction sites for reasonable money or buy a new one, they are still made and you can get them transferred still. Or at least you could last year. And I have not heard of any changes since then.

ATF did ask for a picture to prove it is not an AW and covered by the AWB.
Click to expand...

A MA dealer cannot transfer a SBS because MA considers it a "firearm" (handgun), and since it's not on the Approved Forearms Roster, it's not dealer-transferrable.
The FRB set out letters to all dealers earlier this year "clarifying" this point because they had a lot of questions about transferring Mossberg Shockwaves and Remington TAC 14s.

The letter said that any gun in MA with a barrel shorter than 16" is a "firearm" and subject to the roster. This includes SBRs, which dealers can no longer transfer in MA either.
 
EddieCoyle said:
A MA dealer cannot transfer a SBS because MA considers it a "firearm" (handgun), and since it's not on the Approved Forearms Roster, it's not dealer-transferrable.
The FRB set out letters to all dealers earlier this year "clarifying" this point because they had a lot of questions about transferring Mossberg Shockwaves and Remington TAC 14s.

The letter said that any gun in MA with a barrel shorter than 16" is a "firearm" and subject to the roster. This includes SBRs, which dealers can no longer transfer in MA either.
Click to expand...
Must have just made it then. Mine was an SBS, full stock from the factory.
 
EddieCoyle said:
A MA dealer cannot transfer a SBS because MA considers it a "firearm" (handgun), and since it's not on the Approved Forearms Roster, it's not dealer-transferrable.
The FRB set out letters to all dealers earlier this year "clarifying" this point because they had a lot of questions about transferring Mossberg Shockwaves and Remington TAC 14s.

The letter said that any gun in MA with a barrel shorter than 16" is a "firearm" and subject to the roster. This includes SBRs, which dealers can no longer transfer in MA either.
Click to expand...

While this is all completely 100% true, I'm pretty certain that EOPS or the AG lackey speaking to BATFE declined to tell BATFE that while this was certainly the case under MGL with regards to dealers, that also, it was perfectly legal for an individual to build one of these off a virgin receiver and a virgin barrel, and that said receiver could be legally transferred from an FFL, because at that point under MGL, it fit no MA law specific descriptions of a firearm, rifle, shotgun, or sawed off shotgun, machine gun, etc. I'm pretty sure they left that "small detail" out on purpose.

-Mike
 
This seems like the avenue to go.
Find a virgin receiver or a stripped shockwave receiver out of state.
FFL transfer it.
FA-10 it as a pistol having a 14 inch barrel?
Form 1 the receiver.
While waiting in NFA jail, add the receiver parts, a birds head grip and a 14 inch barrel.
When stamp arrives, remove the birds head grip and add a stock.
 
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Cap'n Mike said:
This seems like the avenue to go.
Find a virgin receiver or a stripped shockwave receiver out of state.
FFL transfer it.
FA-10 it as having a 0.0 inch barrel.
Form 1 the receiver.
While waiting in NFA jail, add the receiver parts, a birds head grip and a 14 inch barrel.
When stamp arrives, remove the birds head grip and add a stock.
Click to expand...


Except isn't the issue that they will not approve the form since mass has told them it's not possible to make one legally?
 
firestorm said:
Except isn't the issue that they will not approve the form since mass has told them it's not possible to make one legally?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but Mass has told the BATFE that its not possible to Transfer a SBS on a Form 4, But I don't see why you couldn't build one on a Form 1, with a virgin receiver. The tough part is finding a virgin shotgun receiver.

I also wonder how a person could prove to the BATFE that the receiver never had a stock or barrel longer than 14 inches on it?
 
A dealer can't transfer one to you. The latest FA-10 form doesn't allow barrel lengths under 16". I believe you can manufacture one yourself, however. The ATF has been approving stamps of SBR's.
 
Maybe the thing to do would be to FA-10 it as a pistol having a 14 inch barrel, after the FFL Transfer of the virgin receiver.
If BATFE refuses to issue a stamp, you still have a shockwave.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
I could be wrong, but Mass has told the BATFE that its not possible to Transfer a SBS on a Form 4, But I don't see why you couldn't build one on a Form 1, with a virgin receiver. The tough part is finding a virgin shotgun receiver.

I also wonder how a person could prove to the BATFE that the receiver never had a stock or barrel longer than 14 inches on it?
Click to expand...


Ok, that's where I was confused. Wouldn't ATF be satisfied that the receiver hadn't been made into a firearm before you got it thus being good to go for a build?
 
If the purchase of an NFA regulated firearm or silencer cannot be approved in an individuals State of residence because of a prohibition in said state but the individual has sole ownership of a house in a state where the purchase can be approved, can the individual establish a trust or legal entity in the other state identifying the individually owned house in that state as the location at which the regulated item will be maintained?
 

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