When your at the range ?

[ArmedMainer]

I'm posting this question here because I'd like everybody to answer the question, not just range officers and competitors. Have you ever been on the firing line at any range when only your party was present and stepped onto the range with only a verbal agreement? In other words using only the verbal agreement and not ringing the bell and putting the red lights on. I know when other people other than your party are present there is no gray to this question. Just curious.

 

[The Village Idiot]

I've been to many ranges(indoor and outdoor) and truly don't know what "ringing the bell" and "putting the red lights on" mean. Please elaborate.
Thanks,
TVI

 

[jhrosier]

If your range has a safety rule or procedure, you should always follow it. Even if you are the only one on the range. It doesn't cost anything and takes no extra time to be safe.

 

[dvajda]

Ha, I think he goes to a "nice" range that has a bell or blinking red lights to signal that the range is safe.

To answer your question (which I think The Village sort of did already) is yes, verbal agreement happens all the time. Many ranges don't have any sort of bell or lights to turn on. You just look over to the other people and say something like "can I go downrange and put up a target" and they nod in agreement and step away from their guns. This is pretty standard stuff.

At my range there may be 5 or 6 people I don't know on the rifle range, but we justs work it out verbally. You sort of wait till there is a lull in the shooting, and ask if you can go put out new targets or check your targets. Then you wait till everyone opens bolt and puts down their firearms and steps away a little from them (ie, no messing with your rifle when I'm downrange or I get very pissed). Never had a problem with this procedure, of course we have a small range so there are never too many people.

As to the "gray" area, there is no such thing. Even if people aren't in your party, verbal works if you have no "fancy" lights or bells.

 

[dwarven1]

What LittleVik said - someone will just ask "Hey, can we do a "guns down?" and we'll put our guns on the bench and go change out targets. Works just fine. It has to... there ARE no bells & whistles at Riverside. The indoor range has overhead target carriers, but the outdoor ranges you gotta go out there.

 

[rscalzo]

Many times I'm on my range alone. Even then the "Cold Range" flag goes up when I'm downrange. At our range the flag is required only on the longer range rifle areas.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I was a member at Sharon F&G for 24 years. They had no bells or lights, so it was always verbal . . . procedure as dvajda stated.

I am a member at Mansfield F&G and to date we have no bells or lights. Verbal as noted above. 50 and 100 yd ranges operate independent of each other due to nice high berms on the side separating them.

Braintree R&P only had the bell and light on the indoor ranges and yes, we always use them. No telling when someone will walk in behind you and if you are downrange . . . we want to prevent accidents. A few years ago we installed bells and lights on the outdoor ranges. People oftentimes forget (I am an RO) and need to be reminded. Each range (except plinking and pistol are on one range) operates independently due to barriers between them.

 

[Bugs100]

I throw the switch and turn the lights and bell on when I'm there by myself.

For the following reasons.

You never know who's going to show up.

The guys in the range next to you know your changing your targets and will be more carefull.

It's a good habit to get into.

I don't want any grief from a range officer.

It's the club rule and I already got yelled at for doing it.. Ha Ha

 

[Cledus J. Crabb]

I throw the switch and turn the lights and bell on when I'm there by myself.

For the following reasons.

You never know who's going to show up.

The guys in the range next to you know your changing your targets and will be more carefull.

It's a good habit to get into.

I don't want any grief from a range officer.

It's the club rule and I already got yelled at for doing it.. Ha Ha

Like he said...........

Scituate has no lights, bells or deafening tones to alert anyone of range status. They only employ a red flag to keep people out of the main range during a Skeet match. Everybody pretty much knows this and acts accordingly.

Old Colony has lights, a buzzer, and a red flag for the 200 yd. range and if a mistake is made concerning a safety issue, the offender in question is gently reminded.
Even if I go down range at 8AM to prepare for a match (shooting doesn't start till 10AM) the lights are on and the buzzer is heard.
I don't like surprises.

 

[drgrant]

All the time. That is the only way the ranges I've gone to
work. Basically you have to establish whatever safety procedures to be
used (other than the major obvious rules) with the people who are
there.

If there was a light/bell/flag whatever, even if I was the only one
there I would use it. You don't know if someone is just going to
come up to rap off a few shots just to see if their gun
works. The last thing you want to be is like behind a target stand,
or something. Of course where I typically shoot it is easy to see if there
are people downrange.


-Mike

 

[fubar]

Danvers , when there's only a few of us we go verbal. When there's more we use a buzzer system. But we mostly know ( by sight if not name ) and trust each other.

 

[cdkayak]

No bells & lights at any of the ranges I belong to & have in the past. Always a verbal request and/or acknowledgment before heading in front of the firing line though.

 

[vellnueve]

At MRA we're supposed to do a verbal agreement as well as put up a flag and turn on flashing lights on on the longer ranges. When I'm there alone, I don't go as far as to tell myself that i'm going downrange, since that's pointless, but I do put up the yellow flag and turn on the lights. Practicing good safety habits even when everything seems safe and fine may save your life some day.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

Even if you call the range safe, pay attention...

At the first Northeast Bloggershoot at Harvard a while back, we had called for a "guns down" to set targets. No touching/loading of guns when the range is cold.

As I'm turning around from the target area to start walking back to the bench, a participant - who shall remian nameless lets his guard down and starts loading a pump shotgun, chambering the first round in, and proceeding to fill the tube.

Needless to say, the sound got my attention.

And, the guilty - not to mention, red-faced and apologetic - party was promptly yelled at by most everyone present.

 

[dvajda]

My range has no lights or bells, and we use the verbal method. But, we do have a safety fallback: we have an orange parking cone that says "RANGE SAFE" on it in big letters. If you go down range, you take the cone and plant it a few feet in front of the firing line. This is useful for cases like where you are alone, and you go down range, and someone new shows up. If they see the cone out, then they know someone is out there (though people seem to forget the cone out there a lot and now there are holes in it, which is going to get someone in deep trouble if they are found).

 

[matt]

The worst safety systems are the ones that are employed only when the users feel they are needed. This is true in the workplace and at the range.

If there is a system, use it.

At my range, we don't have any bell/light. We use the "guns down" method and it works fine. But if someone is expecting the light or bell to be on if the range is cold, they may not look as carefully as they should.

Also, I try to remember to take off my hearing protection when I go down range to listen for offendinding noises, just in case.

 

[Hamar]

ArmedMainer,
I belong to that same club with the bell and the flashing red lights. If I am there alone or am there with my daughter and have go down range, I always turn on the flashing lights. I wont sound the bell because nobody else is there but there is a chance that somebody could show up while we are down range. If they walked up and didnt notice us down range and the lights were not flashing, it could get ugly. Those red lights are your best friend.

 

[ArmedMainer]

ArmedMainer,
I belong to that same club with the bell and the flashing red lights. If I am there alone or am there with my daughter and have go down range, I always turn on the flashing lights. I wont sound the bell because nobody else is there but there is a chance that somebody could show up while we are down range. If they walked up and didnt notice us down range and the lights were not flashing, it could get ugly. Those red lights are your best friend.

My question had nothing to do with the club we belong to. A friend of mine was a another club and all three people involved were standing 10' apart and agreed to go cold. One of the guys[my friend] although only 10' away raised his voice when one of the other two stepped onto the range to do something to a pistol target 25' from the firing line. There was no chance of anyone driving up and not seeing them because the other two guys were still behind the line and the guy adjusting the target was so close to them. I found this out when I questioned my friend when he told me the story. I got my first .22 single shot almost 40 years ago. Been shooting ever since and never killed or endangered anybody. Had anyone[even a friend]raised their voice to me under similar circumstances I wouldn't have been a happy camper. IMHO if all the actions are open , everyone present is in agreement,and everybody's back is covered there no reason to be anal about lights when there's only three people present. After reading some of the post in this thread alot of ranges seem to be operating safely without them. Hammer, as far as our club is concerned I've only been to the high power range there three times. Once for a CMP class and two other times when nobody else was there because it was mid-week. I prefer the indoor range.

 

[vellnueve]

ArmedMainer, I disagree. Just like you train to release your slide manually, practice self defense tactics with premium ammo, etc, practicing good habits on the range when you are alone or there are only a few people there will train you to do so when it does become a serious safety issue.

 

[SnakeEye]

Verbal only here as well.
we have no power inour outdoor range.
i would however love to see a solar powered strobe light.

strobes catch peoples attention, bulbed lights tend to just dissapear into the backround or be ignored.

 

[ArmedMainer]

ArmedMainer, I disagree. Just like you train to release your slide manually, practice self defense tactics with premium ammo, etc, practicing good habits on the range when you are alone or there are only a few people there will train you to do so when it does become a serious safety issue.

According to what my friend said everyone there understood the verbal agreement,the actions were open,and their backs were covered. I don't know the others involved so I can't say one way or another if they'd venture onto a range in all conditions. I got the impression that these guys were well aware of their surroundings and were plenty safe. Although there are yahoos out there I don't think we should assume these people would've stepped onto the range without the lights in different circumstances. I don't want to put alot of effort into defending people who I've never met but I think my friend was the horses rear-end this time. Personally I think he overreacted.

 

[drgrant]

According to what my friend said everyone there understood the verbal agreement,the actions were open,and their backs were covered. I don't know the others involved so I can't say one way or another if they'd venture onto a range in all conditions. I got the impression that these guys were well aware of their surroundings and were plenty safe. Although there are yahoos out there I don't think we should assume these people would've stepped onto the range without the lights in different circumstances. I don't want to put alot of effort into defending people who I've never met but I think my friend was the horses rear-end this time. Personally I think he overreacted.

I would agree.... for something that isn't a "real" safety violation, politely telling the other guys that the light needs to be on would probably have been enough.

-Mike

 

[matt1956]

I'm an Ames R & P member... and use the lights/buzzer regardless if I am alone or not.

I think it is simply because the off chance someone shows up when I am down range, they will know someone is out there.

actually... it is more probably because I'm a kinda guy. and it is the rule, plus it is for my safety and the safety of others.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I would expect that most clubs that have lights/bell/horn, would have it written in their range rules that they must be used at all times. Failure to do could lead to sanctions by their BOD if someone reported it.

Leaving that aside:

- BR&P has a plinking range that is part of the pistol range (far right side). Once someone walks down >15', they are TOTALLY INVISIBLE to anyone on the pistol range! Thus if you don't use the lights/horn, someone could come in, setup on the pistol range and start firing away while you are downrange and out of sight. Very dangerous possibility.

- Ditto for places where there is a >200 yd range next to a shorter range without an adequate berm in between them. They may not be able to see you and the risk certainly impairs safety of the range.

Best to ALWAYS use the "safety tools available" on any given range at all times.