What happens when Mass Gun Laws arent followed.....

[J_Smith]

A friend of mine recently had a case of stupid - which resulted in him almost getting charged with 12 felonys in the State of Massachusetts. Common sense would dictate that in Mass, of ALL places, to get a LTC immediately along with trigger locks,etc........He brushed it off - wasn't worried about it since he does military/leo work.....He understood the basic concept of Mass Law since I drilled it into his head - yet, he was complacent and said "it will never happen to me".....and tried to use his quasi-LEO status as justification.

Not too long again, his apartment building caught on fire.......during the subsequent Fire Department investigation - firearms were noticed in plain view. This led to a law enforcement investigation......He faced 12 felony charges.....one for each weapon, several for some non-Mass AW ban compliant material, and no trigger locks. He got lucky......he managed to get a break and slide by only having his firearms destroyed......he is out $2,000 or so vs - 12 years in prison and 1,000's of dollars in fines.......

Massachusetts has some BS laws.....But to those who live there - or are stationed there - it pays to go about smartly and comply. Never get complacent while under their state law. My friend came very close to losing his career as well.

This is like preaching to the choir to many Mass gun owners I realize......but it should be a wake-up call for anyone who may not be compliant. A lot of guys who get stationed in Massachusetts never take a good look at the gun laws. In this case, complacency reared its ugly head.....

 

[Admin]

edited

 

[FalArAk]

It's for the children.Just keep telling yourself that and things will be ok.

 

[JonJ]

Not too long again, his apartment building caught on fire.......during the subsequent Fire Department investigation - firearms were noticed in plain view. This led to a law enforcement investigation......He faced 12 felony charges.....one for each weapon, several for some non-Mass AW ban compliant material, and no trigger locks. He got lucky......he managed to get a break and slide by only having his firearms destroyed......he is out $2,000 or so vs - 12 years in prison and 1,000's of dollars in fines.......

The police "investigation" should have only basically been whether he was licensed or not, maybe a quick check to insure no FA if he didn't have a lic for that and then concluded. Ragging on him for them not being locked up would have been adding insult to injury IMHO.
But sometimes common sense is not the rule of the day.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Jon,

Even though I was a Special PO in this town for 18 years and am now a Constable, I'd bet that I wouldn't get treated any better (in the same circumstances) by ~75% of our current officers! Certainly our chief would do what he could to roast me and I'd never see another LTC again in MA!

Common sense isn't very common any more!

 

[JonJ]

Jon,

Even though I was a Special PO in this town for 18 years and am now a Constable, I'd bet that I wouldn't get treated any better (in the same circumstances) by ~75% of our current officers! Certainly our chief would do what he could to roast me and I'd never see another LTC again in MA!

Common sense isn't very common any more!

I understand that Len, but being involved in LE would have made no diff to me or 90% of the guys I work with. I know I would not have pushed the lock issue one bit with this guy or any other person. Unless of course my PS was on scene and wanted to make a stink.

 

[Hawgleg44]

Possibly, a person's LE status may help out with local police, but it's definately not the case with State Police.

There was a State Police Captain who had a burglary at his home. He had many "large capacity" handguns and rifles, along with several other guns. I believe the number was round 50 total, but I may not be remembering correctly. This happened around 1999 or so.

When the investigation took place, it was noted that the room, which he kept locked, was also used for othe puropses because he stored clothes in the closet. My understanding of the law is that a trigger lock or locked container is not required if your guns are kept in a room/closet which is securely locked, and ONLY used for the purpose.

He was charged with several counts of felony and misdemeanor unlawful storage of a firearm. I don't know the results of that case, but just the fact that a SP Captain was even charged shows that nobody is immune to the BS laws here in MA.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Possibly, a person's LE status may help out with local police, but it's definately not the case with State Police.

There was a State Police Captain who had a burglary at his home. He had many "large capacity" handguns and rifles, along with several other guns. I believe the number was round 50 total, but I may not be remembering correctly. This happened around 1999 or so.

When the investigation took place, it was noted that the room, which he kept locked, was also used for othe puropses because he stored clothes in the closet. My understanding of the law is that a trigger lock or locked container is not required if your guns are kept in a room/closet which is securely locked, and ONLY used for the purpose.

He was charged with several counts of felony and misdemeanor unlawful storage of a firearm. I don't know the results of that case, but just the fact that a SP Captain was even charged shows that nobody is immune to the BS laws here in MA.

Hawglegg, what it really proved was that the Locals will stick it to the MSP given the chance, just like the MSP will stick it to a Local PO given an opportunity. There is a very real, palpable animosity in MA between Locals, Deputy Sheriffs, and MSP . . . they actually hate each other! It is very sad (and subject of much discussion on other LE forums that I participate on).

On hte subject itself:

- I don't recall ever seeing where a closet or room had to be dedicated to ONLY firearms to be legal for firearm storage (without individual gun locks).

- I do know that Ron Glidden advised that we NOT rely on a room as a "storage container" as the EOPS Legal Counsel was of an opinion that it would not fly. However he stated that a closet was OK.

- Hell, if this was the case, my safe wouldn't qualify for legal gun storage as there are other things not gun-related in the safe.

 

[Hawgleg44]

Len-
I've heard that the local/SP feud has been raging out in E. Mass, but I'm very happy to say that locals and SP work very well together out here in small town W. Mass. Which was always good for me when I was working before I got hurt. Working alone, with state police as the only backup (and only two of them assigned to a very large area that my town is part of) it's comforting to know that the SP are there ASAP when you need them. And, I've NEVER had an instance where they came on the scene and tried to throw their authority around. Even when I was assisting the small town next to us on a crime scene one time, and SP were also called for backup, they came in and assisted.

We had a HUGE college party in town one time that needed to be broken up. We called for SP assistance, and they came with us and acted just like they did at the scene mentioned above. They just stood there as backup until they were needed.

Even on traffic stops, the SP would stop every time and ask if everything was OK. I would welcome them to stick around and take the passenger side whenever they were there. Two is always better than one. And, the same worked the other way. If I saw them on a stop, I'd stop and check on them, too. Most of them also welcomed the local presence with them, too.

Frankly, I don't understand the problems between the different agencies. We're all doing the same job, and we all rely on each other, possibly to save our lives. It's time everybody involved just grew up a little and helped each other.

When it comes to the closet vs room "locked container" issue, it was Chief Glidden who originally told my academy class about the case of the SP Captain. And, he was also the one who mentioned that the room was acceptable as long as it was used for nothing else but gun storage. But, that was quite a few years ago, just after the "safe storage" act was passed.

The arguement about your gunsafe holding something else doesn't really make sense, IT'S A SAFE. I think the arguement about the room not being used for anything else is so people don't just leave their guns out in their bedroom and lock the door.

I'm not doubting that Chief Glidden is now recommending against the locked room as storage. Just as the MA laws are interpreted differently and change constantly, his outlook and recommendations must change with them, and the results of cases that come up. What is fine and thought to be in compliance one day could very possibly be interpreted as against the law the next.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Hawgleg, yes the changes of interpretation as to what is OK and what is a crime drive me nuts! That is specifically the case with the current Sec of Public Safety!

One problem with a "normal" room is that windows make easy access (break-in), bypassing locks. I suspect one would have a better case with a room that had no windows and only one access door.

As for "sole usage", this sounds like the IRS rule about an office in the home, to deduct it (for self employed) it must be "sole usage".

Closets are a particular problem since houses built 20-50 years ago had only a limited number of small closets and thus closet space is precious. When I used to store long arms in my closets (I no longer do that) of course there were clothes in there as well. Personally I have to fight for every inch of closet space as my dear Wife continually expands "her closet space" to every square inch that she can find! [roll]

Yes, the dynamics of PDs working together in Western MA is very different than Eastern MA. Want to see the bitter and ugly? Go to the LE forum on ARfcom and read the current thread on Aux/Reserve v. FT (for the national flavor of hatred) or the MA LE forum (for the localized version, with many threads to choose from) where one group attacks the other and MSP walks on water while campus cops, special/auxiliary, constables, deputy sheriffs are all "fake cops". Very sad!

 

[mark056]

Well, I've worked for the State Police for seven years as a civilian in three different positions, and there is quite a bit of resentment between local agencies and the MSP, but it varies from town to town and agency to agency. The MSP has excellent relationships with many. but certainly not all of the over 350 other law enforcement agencies within the Commonwealth. There are, I think, several reasons:

1. The corporate culture of the MSP itself, and the way some sworn members of the MSP come off as in "Hi, I'm from the MSP, I'm here to help." In other words, a condescending attitude.

2. Professional jealousy on the part of some of the small town cops because the MSP is one of the highest paid state law enforcement agencies in the nation with an excellent benefits package and some really great perks.

3. Professional jealousy on the part of some local police officers because they couldn't become members of the MSP for whatever reason.

4. Professional resentment on the part of some local departments because they don't have the resources to conduct certain investigations or other functions without the assistance or support of the MSP.

I really think that as far as the Command Staff at GHQ is concerned, that they are genuinely trying to make a concerted effort to be inclusive and supportive of all law enforcement agencies within the Commonwealth. I know from personal experience, that the shoe is on the other foot, so to speak when the MSP deals with some representatives of different Federal Law Enforcement Agencies who look at all non-federal LE, including the MSP, as if it were the Mayberry Sheriff's Dept. To some degree, it is only natural, I suppose.

Another related topic is the attitude that some sworn members have towards civilian non-sworn members of the same department. Perhaps that might be addressed some other time in the future.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Republic of Mass]

To answer the thread title's question:

Depends where, when, and why!


While he got whacked for improper storage, I know of at least two cases of people possesing handguns with no license. Both were charged with Firearms w/o license, ammunition w/o FID.

Both CWOF with less then 500$ fines.



Why dont mass gun laws work? Becasue they arent enforced.
Mandatory minnimum is just that, mandatory minimum!
The courts are just as bad as Beacon Hill!

 

[Weerd Beard]

I just ran my wife through or Home Defence Drill.

She's not a big fan of the guns, and handles them very infrequently....but she managed to get my 1911 unlocked and "loaded" (she loaded an empty mag and locked the slide back) in rather prompt time.

In the end a trigger lock on a gun is like the difference of keeping a gun beside your bed vs. under you pillow.

The amount of time it'll cost you outweighs the amout of problems it will cause you. I'm for trigger locks...espeshally the double-cut keys they have.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[KMaurer]

Trigger locks are absolutely worthless and dangerous pieces of sh#t. Someday, we'll have an AG (just like the one we've got now) who will sue Master, Mossberg and all the other manufacturers of trigger locks for consumer fraud and peddling potentially deadly products. Every newbie class I teach, I show the students how I can install a trigger lock on my unloaded 1911, then load and fire it with the lock still in place.

Cable locks or those little 1- or 2-gun safes with the simple keypad access (e.g., GunVault) are great, but trigger locks are accidents looking for an opportunity to do the greatest damage.

Ken

 

[Moderator]

I never said it on here on the forum before, but I do tell people just to let them know that it can and does happen, I had an "AD" with a gunlock (trigger lock). I admit it was totally my fault. There should never of been a round in the chamber, but to lock did nothing to prevent someone from putting one in and still firing it anyways. I was very lucky. One thing that I did learn and obey from my BFSC was to always point the gun in a safe direction. For me this was my closet. When the gun went off (DAVIS P-380) the bullet went through my closet and went through about 7 shirts and 4 pairs of jeans. I was scared shitless. I was taught I valuable lesson with minimal consequence. It took about 45 min to find the bullet. It stopped on a pair of jeans. I'll tell ya what, right after that I said "the hell with gun locks" I went and bought a safe. Probably the best money I have ever spent. Safety is everybody’s responsibility. We cannot rely on a $5 lock to save a priceless life.

B.J.