It would be nice if the classifier system reward consistency over Hero or Zero.
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USPSA @ New Bedford - Sunday 7/24
- Thread starter MAShooter
- Start date
It would be nice if the classifier system reward consistency over Hero or Zero.
I think the failure mode of someone being classed below their actual ability is much worse than the failure mode of being classed above. Grandbaggers are hurting no one but themselves.
not if you get rid of the welfare system of rewards. If someone wants to tanks a few classifiers before a big match so they can will top whatever, then they are top whatever, their placement at the match will be rewarded the same. What does top C mean anyway? nothing, you still got your ass kicked
Reward those who earned it. Those that want a prize just for showing up can go standing line at an Obama rally
TY43215
NES Member
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Well it serves me right. This was the first time I sandbagged a classifier when I know I wasn't shooting it well.
kimmie1911
NES Member
So, next match, I'll just nail the classifier (because I can!) and it won't matter! .
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I think certificates/trophies for 1st C, etc are fine to have for those who care. I think any prize distribution that isn't either strict order of finish or random draw is stupid. Why reward someone for being the best of the worst?
I'm not sure what problem allowing people to move down solves.
For me personally, the use of classifiers is to track improvement and quantify which skills need improvement. I view moving up as an accomplishment and if I find my percentage consistently low on classifiers that use a certain skill (for me not seeing enough on partial targets and strong hand/ weak hand), I know that's where I need improvement. The only other person's classification I look at in match results is the division winner to see how my match percentage stacks up.
Awesome!
9X21
Banned
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Hell yes !
I say, just take our mean average to date!
(YOUR TOTAL AVERAGE SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SHOOTING CLASSIFERS!)
I'd be a "B" shooter in open, where I belong!
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
NOW that is consistency!
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
Oh, by the way,
So would YOU Bacon boy !
63.91452475%
is your average in open since you started, that is your consistancy!
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
any complaints, read below:
Hell yes !
I say, just take our mean average to date!
(YOUR TOTAL AVERAGE SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN SHOOTING CLASSIFERS!)
I'd be a "B" shooter in open, where I belong!
NOW that is consistency!
Oh, by the way,
So would YOU Bacon boy !
63.91452475%
is your average in open since you started, that is your consistancy!
any complaints, read below:
I think taking from the start is silly, as people obviously improve and classifier results from a year ago do not reflect your current ability. But the best 6 out of your last 8 would would reflect current ability. I have classifiers that count from 2 years ago, that's just stupid.
If you count my best 6 out of 8, i'm at 81%. That seems accurate to me
If you look at when I went to the nats and my best 6 out of last eight at that time I was 78%... finished at 74%. pretty close to being right were it should be
Would everyone move down? Most would and it would reflect there ability better
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I have shot USPS matches 5 or 6 times i believe. Every match classifier my % has gone up by 10
1st was 20 something
next was 30 something
next was 40 something
next was ... well, we'll scratch that one because i took a dare to do headshots.
this past weekend was 50 something %
I shot my first 70% stage and was quite thrilled averaging 65% for all stages combined. I don't see the point of tanking a classifier or any stage because you are doing bad. Give it your all or your just cheating and fooling yourself.
I wish the scores were getting submitted, but i am still quite happy with how i shot that day.... except for that one miss. Dam bullet resistant cardboard.
1st was 20 something
next was 30 something
next was 40 something
next was ... well, we'll scratch that one because i took a dare to do headshots.
this past weekend was 50 something %
I shot my first 70% stage and was quite thrilled averaging 65% for all stages combined. I don't see the point of tanking a classifier or any stage because you are doing bad. Give it your all or your just cheating and fooling yourself.
I wish the scores were getting submitted, but i am still quite happy with how i shot that day.... except for that one miss. Dam bullet resistant cardboard.
9X21
Banned
I am not sure where YOU or the USPSA come up with this best 6 of 8 bullshit.
Is there another sport you can cite that uses such mathematical wizardry to track ONLY your BEST performances?
Baseball hitting %, or pitching ERA?
Football ?
Golf?
Bowling?
Your average is your average.
If you want to use the most recent year shot, that's fine.
Mine is 69.32% and yours was 67.92% in Open.
and yes,
People should go down if their average warrants it.
I think many have left this sport because they reached a pinnacle of performance (such as M Class), then could not maintain it (for whatever reasons, lack of practice etc.).
(you know, like you & quazi in open) heheheh
I am not sure where YOU or the USPSA come up with this best 6 of 8 bullshit.
Is there another sport you can cite that uses such mathematical wizardry to track ONLY your BEST performances?
Baseball hitting %, or pitching ERA?
Football ?
Golf?
Bowling?
Your average is your average.
If you want to use the most recent year shot, that's fine.
Mine is 69.32% and yours was 67.92% in Open.
and yes,
People should go down if their average warrants it.
I think many have left this sport because they reached a pinnacle of performance (such as M Class), then could not maintain it (for whatever reasons, lack of practice etc.).
(you know, like you & quazi in open) heheheh
It would be like baseball keeping your stats from minor league and t-ball.
Its not like we went to shoot IDPA/ICORE so we could finally do well
It was only a matter of time before you posted something like this... no surprise though. And how do you know you'll do well??
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Although I see your logic- it would almost be better to just not bother with a classification system.... extreme yes. But what does it really matter? Locally we all know where we stand in the pecking order.
The current system will have Master shooters like yourself- that have some classifiers from 2 years ago and some that just got there on their last 8. It's like capturing peak performance over a period of time and that's it.
There are some highly classified people that aren't competitive anymore- there should be a way to address that. Maybe a rolling year is a good idea..... but it will never change and you know it.
As someone was once said "We don’t have any super top shooters in the Northeast at all" So its nice to see where we would rank again super top shooters
Mike,
I just thought that was because they don't have to shoot a classifier with those poncho wearing targets like us New Englandaaaas have to do so often! We need to start getting trash bags with at least an "A" zone on them!
You'd think that USPSA would have come up with a way to enter just classifiers per competitor rather than as a whole match by now. I'm sure this happens at plenty of other matches as well. or am I wrong?![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
It's not USPSA that needs to figure it out. People running squads need to be sure the shooters are starting correctly, thats all there is to it. Dave could submit the scores for those who shot the stage right, but that would require he find out every single person who shot it wrong, updating their scores with a DNF for the stage, then submitting it to USPSA, a completely impractical task since there is no way he knows who was on what squad and shot it wrong or right.
I knew I shot the classifier conservatively (and the right way) due to the high disaster factor, but was shocked when I saw just how much faster some of the times were. I'm happy to see why.
As for the classification system, I do think it's kind of ridiculous that something from many years ago can still count towards your average, but it's the system we play under, so no sense complaining about it, it works both ways at majors. It's amusing to see the last GM being beaten by legit lifetime B class shooters, and it's frustrating when you shoot against foreign competitors who shoot maybe 6 classifiers in 10 years and are still C class shooters, finishing in the top 10%. And really, who cares what class you're in, if you're a GM getting beat by A shooters, you're not a GM, you're a poser. Which is really the reason you see people leave the sport who got to a high class. It's not that they reached some pinnacle of performance, it's that they practiced the shit out of classifiers, achieved their goal so they could brag they made master or whatever, and gave it up. Those of us who have been around a long time know who achieved those levels and then quit shooting. It had nothing to do with being unable to sustain a level of performance. They quit because they were posers. They didn't win, but thought they were entitled to because they achieved some perceived great class. When they didn't, and got beat by lower class shooters week after week, their ego was hurt, they got frustrated and quit. They could shoot classifiers, that was it. Stick them on a stage that required figuring out how to shoot it, and they sucked. The true measure of your class is found at major matches, against the top shooters in the world, on any given day, on your first and only run, not on classifiers.
And prizes by raffle are always the most ridiculous and insulting way of awarding anything. You want a raffle prize? go to your church fundraiser, or play the lottery.
Prizes at a match should be awarded on achievement, not random chance, we aren't buying a lottery ticket when we enter a match. I wish more major match directors would heed this. Rob Boudrie had a survey a bunch of years back which showed the majority of shooters in this area wanted prizes based on achievement, not drawing. Sadly, the results were ignored.
and if someone wants to hate on Mike doubting he'd do well in IDPA, they've never seen him shoot a production gun. He's ridiculous good with one. I thought he should leave open a few years ago and pursue a possible sponsorship with the company who's gun he had, he was that good. I can also verify he is good at slicing a pie, or at least a cake, since I went to his house for a halloween party once.
And finally, to get back on topic, great match last week at New Bedford, I thought they were great stages, mixing accuracy with speed and requiring you to think a tiny bit on a couple of the stages.
And Dave, Thanks for saying good shooting to me, but as far as i'm concerned, it's not good enough, right now, 9x21 is the best, he's got a good amount of wins so far this year, and he wasn't at New Bedford, so the win means nothing.
And for the record, I went .396 my last year in little league, and was eliminated in the final game in a best of three series for the state championship in all stars. I didn't play T ball, so can't figure that in, but pretty sure I'd ground out a bunch if I went to the batting cages now. But I'm going to consider myself a hall of famer, cuz i quit at my peak.
I would agree that the classification system USPSA uses is baffling to say the least. I, however, do not really care what class I am rated as. Being a solid "C" class shooter to me only means that if I truly wanted to improve I would need to practice a lot more. My main motivation for shooting USPSA is to have fun, improve my mental game, and shoot with people that I consider friends, who also are shooters I respect for their shooting abilities.
I will admit that the classification system needs to be revamped, to truly measure the current ability of all shooters equally.
Since I do not have any good suggestions how this could be accomplished, I will end my comments on the subject.
Thank you to the NB team that made Sunday's match happen. I truly enjoyed myself.
Until the next match............
Rich F.
I will admit that the classification system needs to be revamped, to truly measure the current ability of all shooters equally.
Since I do not have any good suggestions how this could be accomplished, I will end my comments on the subject.
Thank you to the NB team that made Sunday's match happen. I truly enjoyed myself.
Until the next match............
Rich F.
Matt- you might be right about some people leaving USPSA for those reasons... but to call them all posers is wrong. There are exceptions and I think you know that.
On throwing hate on Mike about IDPA... yeah I'd like to see how he does. I'm surprised you didn't see my motivation in that comment- I'm sure Mike picked up on it.
And I agree... NB's stages are great.. Throw in some hoser range targets followed by tricky shots is always something I can use work on. PLus they have some great people.
Matt- you might be right about some people leaving USPSA for those reasons... but to call them all posers is wrong. There are exceptions and I think you know that.
On throwing hate on Mike about IDPA... yeah I'd like to see how he does. I'm surprised you didn't see my motivation in that comment- I'm sure Mike picked up on it.
Locally, at Master level, I can't think of any who left who weren't flash in the pan posers. Yes, there were legit people who were around for many years who eventually got bored, lost the desire, or moved on to other things, Ian D, Mark A, Jack C, those are a few of the really good who consistently maintained a high level and moved on after many years to pursue other things, they weren't posers. So I stand by the statement. (Al Z, Steve L, Mark M, they all pop up from time to time, so I don't consider them gone)
Mike is never going to idpa, unless there is nothing else to shoot, doesn't matter how much taunting anyone does
Ok, y'all finally got me to read these threads, since some event caused by some RO couldn't pick up a sheet of paper and read it correctly, may have caused me to miss the best classifier of my life , my first 100%. I lived all of last year,trying not to hold a grudge against Westfield because they didn't enter a 85% classifier for me, due to some technical error on their part. If I am supposed to be a Master shooter, I should be able to shoot it any time, on demand. If I screw it up, it is on me. I screw it up enough, so when I found out TODAY! that it didn't count, it was depressing, and yes, it did PISS ME OFF!!!!. I was told AS I handed over $20 for the John Kelly match. Take my money and then slap me in the face with such bad news. MY RO read it correctly, we looked it up on line and read it correctly, We did it correctly, so send the scores in!!!!
You know which squad did it incorrectly and it is easy enough to get who was on that squad. Just a few phone calls, video reviews. Yes it pisses me off. And if it can't get fixed, I guess I'll be shooting at Munson.
You know which squad did it incorrectly and it is easy enough to get who was on that squad. Just a few phone calls, video reviews. Yes it pisses me off. And if it can't get fixed, I guess I'll be shooting at Munson.
You smoked that stage- I hope you get it fixed. I'd be happy if my 70+% counts but the stakes aren't as high for me. Sorry I didn't tell you when I heard... I feel bad about that.
All this being said you will be the one who misses out if you stop going to NB!
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I've been able to determine who was on which squads, and know that shooters on squad 1 had the issue. While the results of the classifier stage will still not count for the match, I will submit the classifier results to USPSA for all shooters who shot it correctly. For those members of squad 1, you have the opportunity to re-shoot the classifier stage correctly after the completion of this Sunday's regular match (after the match is over, I will setup DCM 09-02 Diamond Cutter for the reshoot). Only those shooters of squad 1 are being offer the reshoot, if you are not at the match, or choose to not re-shoot it, you're score will not be submitted. Classifier results will be submitted to USPSA in time for the August compile of classifications.
I encourage everyone to shoot matches at which ever club(s) you enjoy spending time at. All the clubs in the Northeast section are made up of great, dedicated volunteers who donate many, many hours of their time to make these matches happen. And I would encourage everyone who enjoys these great shooting sports to thank these volunteers, at every club, each and every time you can. Without them, there would be no matches to shoot at. And if you're able, consider getting involved with a club or two.
Hope to see you all on Sunday.
I encourage everyone to shoot matches at which ever club(s) you enjoy spending time at. All the clubs in the Northeast section are made up of great, dedicated volunteers who donate many, many hours of their time to make these matches happen. And I would encourage everyone who enjoys these great shooting sports to thank these volunteers, at every club, each and every time you can. Without them, there would be no matches to shoot at. And if you're able, consider getting involved with a club or two.
Hope to see you all on Sunday.
