Us v. Them

[djsmiles]

Is it just me, or do other people see a possible Us(Infidel) v. Them(Muslim) world war in the future? am i being paranoid? or am i seeing something that everybody sees?

if i'm not the onlyone who thinks this way, what do you think will happen? me personaly, i see a world wide gorilla war. what have you done to prepare for this? me personaly, not much.

what do you all think? am i crazy, or dead on?

 

[Garys]

Is it just me, or do other people see a possible Us(Infidel) v. Them(Muslim) world war in the future? am i being paranoid? or am i seeing something that everybody sees?

In the future? It's been going on since the mid 1970s, it's just that most people are clueless about it.

BTW, currently, we're losing.

Gary

 

[JonJ]

It's been going on a whole hell of a lot longer than since the 70's!

 

[Adam_MA]

In the future? It's been going on since the mid 1970s, it's just that most people are clueless about it.

BTW, currently, we're losing.

Gary

Damn right we're losing! See the crap that is happening over a FRIGGIN cartoon drawing?! PC freaks are saying that it is our fault, and we need to be sensitive to their feelings. That's right, people on "our" side are saying that we need to take THEIR feelings into consideration... That means we ARE losing!

Adam

 

[Garys]

Well, in the modern era then. I trace it to Munich in 1972, but other go further back.

Here's the chronology as I see it. I'm sure there are some that I'm missing.

1972 Munich
1979 Iran takes hostages
1983 Beirut Marine Corps Barracks bombing. (Reagan was wrong on this)
1985 TWA flight hijacked, USN Diver killed
1985 Archille Lauro hijacked, Leo Klinghoffer killed and dumped over board
1988 Pan AM 747 bombing over Lockabee, Scotland
1993 WTC first attack
1996 Bombing of Khobar Towers Military Complex
1998 US Embassies in Africa bombed
2000 USS Cole attacked
2001 WTC second attack

Arguably, attacks by regular or irregular forces against US Military personnel and stations are not terrorist attacks. That being the case, they are acts of war and the sponsoring nations should be held accountable.

Attacks by irregular forces aka terrorists against civilians violate several provisions of the Geneva Accords and as such the perpetrator when caught should be subject to military, not civilian trial and punishment. The problem with the Clinton administration's approach was to treat these a crimes, to be investigated by the FBI and prosecuted in US Courts. This was as foolish as it would have been had FDR ordered the FBI to arrest Hirohito after Pearl Harbor was attacked.

The thing that people just can't get their head around is that this is war waged by non state actors. That is, these people owe allegiance to a theology, not a nation. None the less, they are waging war. The only response is essentially what the Bush administration has done. Find and kill the terrorist where ever and when ever you can. Additionally, state sponsors, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc. have to be punished as well. Without willing host nations, the non state actors can not survive.

A friend of mine, who is rather liberal was railing on about the "domestic spying" (it isn't) that the Bush Administration is engaging in. He said that our Constitutional freedoms are more at risk from the Bush Administration than from a few, and I quote, "towel-heads with box knives". Despite being a very bright guy, he has totally misread the situation. What those people did with the box knives and what the plan to do in the future is the issue. It won't stop with giving back Gaza, the West Bank, or even Spain. What these people want, and are willing to kill and die for, is a planet with only one religion, which is both religion and government. Further, they want their particular version and are willing kill other members of their own religion to do it.

 

[Cledus J. Crabb]

Seems to me I saw an article in the "Patriot Liar" back last year where they quoted the head of some Muslim mosque in Quincy, saying the Muslims would take over America in time.
I wonder what it will take to make us realize this fight is for "the whole ball of wax"? Not just overseas, but here at home too.
As I know we've got "guests" who frequent the website, I'll refrain from any non-PC rant.
CJC

 

[hminsky]

I think we have to watch out for our freedom from both directions -- from the Muslims and also from anyone in our own country who promises us security in exchange for our civil liberties. The two threats are not mutually exclusive, in fact they come together hand-in-hand. Recall the McCarthy era was brought on through a demagogue promising to protect us from the communists.

That said, we should nuke Saudi Arabia and Syria right now, and drill for oil on the glass parking lot that is left. And then overthrow the government in Iran if they look at us funny, (although that is what got us into this f8cked up situation in the first place when we tried it the last time).

The sad part is it seems like it is the CIA who has gotten us into this whole Islamofascist situation. First they overthrew a reasonable secular government in Iran because it was a little too "socialist" for them (i.e., nationalized its own oil companies), which probably caused the Iranian revolution in the '70s.

Then they backed the Taliban in order to get the Russians out of Afghanistan.

I have to wonder what kind of scheme they are paying for right now which will blow up in our face later.

 

[centermass181]

if thats parnoid, whats it mean if Ive got range cards on my windows, and squad sector sketches in the Master Bedroom?

Ill show you paranoid.

 

[Garys]

The CIA didn't over throw the Shah in the 1970s. What DID happen was Jimmy Carter stopped all forms of aid to the country because he felt the Shah was too repressive. That aside, this has been going on for longer than the 1970s as JonJ pointed out. The current war started in in the 1970s, or maybe earlier.

Gary

 

[sellscottsell]

As Americans, we typically think about turmoil in the middle-east as something that’s occurred from between 1970 until today. Additionally we tend to think that most of the problems have been instigated by extreme Muslims. As Gary clearly illustrated, there’s certainly been a history of violence, but the last 35 years is only the result of a much bigger problem. In 1917 the Balfour Declaration was signed essentially declaring that a piece of what is now Palestine would be given to the Zionists for use as a homeland. It took until 1948 before Israel was declared a state. Needless to say, this hasn’t sat very well with the Palestinians. When clashes occurred over time, the Israelis have defended their homeland with extreme force and superior fire power that was typically provided by the American Government. So in effect, there is a struggle between new and old countries and regimes, a struggle between Christians and Muslims, a struggle between Jews and Muslims and in some instances Communists and Muslims (Afghanistan 1980’s). In a nut shell it’s a bloody mess that will not be cleaned up any time soon. My personal opinion is that it will benefit us greatly to finish what we have started in Iraq and establish a rather big American base in order to keep an eye on the Middle East. I think the Muslim extremists have been able to get a foothold because of all the unrest. Think of what would happen in the US if another civil war broke out, do you think our own grass root extremists would run wild? You betcha!

 

[KMaurer]

Harking back to the Balfour Doctrine is all well and good, but too often people tend to look at only part of the doctrine. Before WWI, there was the Ottoman Empire, and such places as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq were nothing more than parts of that empire; some were provinces, others only parts of provinces. At the end of the war the empire was broken up by the victors and some provinces were independent nations. (Yes, that's right. It's only as a result of western nations "meddling" in the middle east that countries such as Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iraq even exist.)

Some pieces were carved off of provinces and made part of different new counties. Palestine was unique, in that the original plan was to create two separate nations out of it for different groups living there, one nation for Muslims and another for Jews (Yes, there were a relatively large number of Jews living in the area before WWI.) The British, who were given responsibility for administering the area and establishing the new countries dragged their feet when it came to creating the Jewish nation the agreement called for. They were getting along just fine with the Muslim leaders and saw little need to upset things for a bunch of Jews. Part of the original province of Palestine was established as an independent nation for the Muslim population. The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan was formed in 1946, but the remainder of Palestine was still controlled by the British.

I suppose that the "fair" and acceptable solution would have been to divide the remainder into two parts, with the Muslims controlling one and the other maintained under British control, then repeat this process a few dozen times. Of course, there would still be Muslims who felt that they had been unfairly exiled from the final closet that had been taken over by "the Zionist occupiers", and who vowed Jihad until the last Jew was driven into the sea. I guess that most of us are unwilling to jump in and help them kill off all the Jews (or at least relocate them all to someplace like Antarctica) the only way to shut these people up would be to hand the whole place (including all those other countries) back to the Turks. While they might not like it, either the falaka would teach them to STFU or they'd simply disappear.

Ken

 

[djsmiles]

well, guess i'm not the only one.

i guess what i meant by a war was an all out war, similar to WWII. i sorta consider what's going on now, more of a few "skirmishes" strung together. i think that i feel this way because, aside from the WTC tragidy, there really hasn't been much of any problems on US soil.

 

[SnakeEye]

well, guess i'm not the only one.

i guess what i meant by a war was an all out war, similar to WWII. i sorta consider what's going on now, more of a few "skirmishes" strung together. i think that i feel this way because, aside from the WTC tragidy, there really hasn't been much of any problems on US soil.

what? other than the near utter implosion of our enonomy under the weight of skyrocketed fuel prices, the cost of increased security against an invisible enemy that cant be stopped by such methods, and a war thats costing us billions a month to fight against an enemy that has no nation or a front?
sure not much at all...
theyve succeed marvelously in hitting us where it counts in a monetary capitalist system. in the wallet..

 

[Executive]

This business goes back to the crusades. That's right- this war is 1000 years old. Yes, it has heated up and cooled off over the years, and it's certainly heating up the past 30-40 years. It will end either with the elimination of one side OR with the realization of both sides that peaceful coexistence is possible. The question becomes, which ending is most likely?

 

[Skald]

As ChristosX has said, this all goes back to the Crusades. But I have to disagree with him when this will end. Sadly, there is NO political solution to this crisis, at least as what I see it. Example being with Syria allowing its citizens pretty much attack the Danish embassy (declaration of war?) and maybe even encouraged it, Iran the same thing.

Muslims want American's one of two ways..........


Muslim

or

Dead.


I am not talking about the muslims in this country, since overall they have been more 'westernized' than those in the Middle East. (Just look at 24 from last season with the young kid. Parents were fanatical but he didn't see the reasoning with it and had doubts because he was raised here etc.)

Now hopefully that the riots going on now open a few eyes in the western governments and see that this is not a misunderstanding but rather a downright hatred for things western and european in nature. Even if one person's eyes are opened from this, its a win for us because we got another person to truely wake up.

We need to keep vigilant and make sure that this country doesn't slide down into the abyss easily. If it happens will you be the person who looks in the mirror who did nothing and feel ashamed or one who could actually look in the mirror and know you did your best and then some.

Me, I write my pol's. Even the libs. Though I do know it falls on deaf ears, I still make MY views evident to them.

 

[Adam_MA]

Agreed!
I know you read it, hell you were the only one to reply, but there is some great information about this in the thread I posted the other day.

http://northeastshooters.com/viewtopic.php?t=4716

Adam

 

[Skald]

Adam,

I actually got some information from a paper written by a westernized muslim about Islam in the Middle East and such. There are moderates and progessives in Islam, but sadly they are not tolerated at all by the mainstream and can be very hazardous to ones health if you speak to loudly.

 

[NH40VE]

That said, we should nuke Saudi Arabia and Syria right now, and drill for oil on the glass parking lot that is left. And then overthrow the government in Iran if they look at us funny, (although that is what got us into this f8cked up situation in the first place when we tried it the last time).

i'm glad i'm not the only one that feels this way.i've been thinking that ever since this whole dang war started.

"forget beating around the bush and drop atomic betty,well yah"

As I know we've got "guests" who frequent the website, I'll refrain from any non-PC rant.
CJC

you mean the walls have eyes/ears? :? i hate not being able to fully vent.dealt with that enough at wally world [evil]

 

[SnakeEye]

Its by using the moderates and progessives in Islam as a subterfuge that the extremists have been enabled to come this far.
If moderates and progessives werent aiding their cause, by definition the extremists would have eliminated their less devoted brotheran out of blaspehy. but their not that stuipid,if it werent for their less extreme clerics putting a face on their religion that the western liberal dogs would lap up im sure we would have snuffed their belief system out long ago . The less eloquent extremists wouldnt be able to hold their tongues to hide their true intentions...
unfortunetly for them, at its core, their religion is one of intolerance, hate and genocide and has no place in a free thinking world.
theres simply no choice but to eliminate them all, and sadly that will include innocents.. se la vie