Upgrade AR barrel recommendations 5.56 & 7.62 nato?

teamRR

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What do you mean off shoulder? Shooting from the hip?
What twist are you looking for ?
almost any twist will work with 5.56 NATO / M855 .
Maybe I missed it but Om not getting a clear idea of what ammo you will be using the most and what type of shooting your doing.

if “ off the shoulder “ means bench then go for the most accurate barrel
If “off the shoulder “ means standing off hand and shooting rapid fire go chrome then?

Standing, leaning, sometimes steadying off random things (hood of truck) versus using a bipod is more technically what I mean by shoulder.
 

teamRR

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What do you mean off shoulder? Shooting from the hip?
What twist are you looking for ?
almost any twist will work with 5.56 NATO / M855 .
Maybe I missed it but Om not getting a clear idea of what ammo you will be using the most and what type of shooting your doing.

if “ off the shoulder “ means bench then go for the most accurate barrel
If “off the shoulder “ means standing off hand and shooting rapid fire go chrome then?

First part of your question, I don't just stock one ammo. Like in 5.56 at the moment, not in the zombie stockpile, just on the working shelf, I have PPU 55 grain, Frontier/Hornady non pentatrator 62, Frontier/Hornady match in 68 & 75, and M856 (64 grain pentatrator tracer)..

In my next 5.56 barrel I don't want a 1:7 because I would like it to work ideally with a better range, not just heavy stuff.

Depending what I am doing might put any of that through any rifle except the tracers, not going to run those through a barrel intended to be kept nice for bench shooting.
 

mac1911

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First part of your question, I don't just stock one ammo. Like in 5.56 at the moment, not in the zombie stockpile, just on the working shelf, I have PPU 55 grain, Frontier/Hornady non pentatrator 62, Frontier/Hornady match in 68 & 75, and M856 (64 grain pentatrator tracer)..

In my next 5.56 barrel I don't want a 1:7 because I would like it to work ideally with a better range, not just heavy stuff.

Depending what I am doing might put any of that through any rifle except the tracers, not going to run those through a barrel intended to be kept nice for bench shooting.
with such a wide range of ammo your choices for barrels should be what ever makes you happy.
Looking forward to a follow up with a range report.
Love to see that 308 AR at the Modern Military Match. i have not seen a AR10 yet that can shoot well. The M1a's are usually the ones with the best scores. Well at least until a AR15 shows up.
Heck i will even pay your match fee.
For the Nov Match at OCSA in pembroke MA just to see that 308 AR post a great score.
We shoot 10 rounds prone slow fire, 10 rounds prone rapid and 10 rounds off hand, with 5 sight in shots.

The 556/223 barrel?
I have a good amount of the PPU M193 55 grain fodder and it will group just a touch over MOA on average and even those bulk hornady 55s will be darn near MOA (IIRC i pulled 4 10 shot groups with a average of 1.28" over the 4 groups. ) through my 1 /7 twist NM service rifle with a scope on it.
1/8 is a good middle ground. 1/9 thats whats on my carbine and it pukes on most anything over 62 grains. Its closer to MOA with 55s than 62 but my 69/77 grain match loads open right up to typical AR 4 moa accuracy.
 
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fshalor

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Fan of Green Mountain barrels...made in NH. Tough to beat for the money.

Almost everything's OOS right now. I was going for a 1/8 from a good vendor and gave up. Found a good 1/7 Green Mountain @ 14.5". It looks perfect. (Not dimpled, though, but I have a jig I made last time and a drill press. )

I've had 2 BCM's, 2 Green Mountain's, and one Sota arms. (Probably an FN, not sure if they make them in house or buy them.) AFter around 10k through the Sota, it still shoots better than the BCM chrome lined I have. Feel in the hand, Green Mountain just looks and feels better machined.

After spending a few hundred hours researching barrels, White Oak and Green Mountain have been on the top of every list, post, suggestion, or build sheet.
 

mac1911

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Almost everything's OOS right now. I was going for a 1/8 from a good vendor and gave up. Found a good 1/7 Green Mountain @ 14.5". It looks perfect. (Not dimpled, though, but I have a jig I made last time and a drill press. )

I've had 2 BCM's, 2 Green Mountain's, and one Sota arms. (Probably an FN, not sure if they make them in house or buy them.) AFter around 10k through the Sota, it still shoots better than the BCM chrome lined I have. Feel in the hand, Green Mountain just looks and feels better machined.

After spending a few hundred hours researching barrels, White Oak and Green Mountain have been on the top of every list, post, suggestion, or build sheet.
white oak comes to the top AFAIK they use Shilen, Krieger or Bartlen barrel blanks , hard not to be "good" with that starting point.

I have a barrel similar to this one for my " bench" AR.
 
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fshalor

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white oak comes to the top AFAIK they use Shilen, Krieger or Bartlen barrel blanks , hard not to be "good" with that starting point.

I have a barrel similar to this one for my " bench" AR.
Yup. The Sota arms barrel I have was either a very good FN sourced blank, or more likely, a Krieger. I know a lot of people bad mouth them, but I found their machine work to be very consistent.
 

teamRR

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with such a wide range of ammo your choices for barrels should be what ever makes you happy.
Looking forward to a follow up with a range report.
Love to see that 308 AR at the Modern Military Match. i have not seen a AR10 yet that can shoot well. The M1a's are usually the ones with the best scores. Well at least until a AR15 shows up.
Heck i will even pay your match fee.
For the Nov Match at OCSA in pembroke MA just to see that 308 AR post a great score.
We shoot 10 rounds prone slow fire, 10 rounds prone rapid and 10 rounds off hand, with 5 sight in shots.

The 556/223 barrel?
I have a good amount of the PPU M193 55 grain fodder and it will group just a touch over MOA on average and even those bulk hornady 55s will be darn near MOA (IIRC i pulled 4 10 shot groups with a average of 1.28" over the 4 groups. ) through my 1 /7 twist NM service rifle with a scope on it.
1/8 is a good middle ground. 1/9 thats whats on my carbine and it pukes on most anything over 62 grains. Its closer to MOA with 55s than 62 but my 69/77 grain match loads open right up to typical AR 4 moa accuracy.

Thanks again - I was thinking 1:8 based on looking at the recommendations out there, seems 1:7 is just a bit too picky on the side of needing heavy stuff..

Will see when I get this barrel in, I got in line but the wait is 1 to 3 months - thats ok and kinda what I anticipated, just wanted to get in line so I get my barrel shopping done ahead of any further political insanity.

Do have all the parts for a 22 inch creedmoor sitting here as well which I have high hopes for, may put the barrel on and verify function, but unfortunately it is going to need about $1800 in glass and a bipod before I am "done" and that I am deprioritzing until I get this barrel business fully budgeted/paid. Basically I am a little concerned if politics go to hell these "AR parts" might become even harder to get, am a few barrels (a 16 inch creedmoor, two 5.56's) and a couple parts away from comfortable there.

As far as the AR10 goes - prone I don't know what disadvantage they have, they ought to do a little better.. shouldered I get it, absolutely are heavy and imbalanced, even a light one is so, if I was trying to do my best on paper I would not pick one.
 

Mountain

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Yup. The Sota arms barrel I have was either a very good FN sourced blank, or more likely, a Krieger. I know a lot of people bad mouth them, but I found their machine work to be very consistent.

Highly doubt Krieger. Not a volume OEM type producer. Match shooters pay a hefty premium for Krieger barrels and request them by name. FN seems very possible.
 

teamRR

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I kinda wonder what the deal is with FN and barrels - they don't really sell much direct, thought they used to but when I went looking for one I bought a Spikes because I don't think you could from FN at that moment anyway..

PSA gets their HF SAW barrels w/ the extra chrome lining, so does Spikes (and I believe their BB version too), so does someone else too can't recall, prices are all over the place but they flaunt the FN name.
 

mac1911

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I kinda wonder what the deal is with FN and barrels - they don't really sell much direct, thought they used to but when I went looking for one I bought a Spikes because I don't think you could from FN at that moment anyway..

PSA gets their HF SAW barrels w/ the extra chrome lining, so does Spikes (and I believe their BB version too), so does someone else too can't recall, prices are all over the place but they flaunt the FN name.
Its very possible the Fn barrels are contract over runs or even from a cancelled order. ?
FN and PSA are neighbors in SC so theres a connection.
 
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mac1911

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Thanks again - I was thinking 1:8 based on looking at the recommendations out there, seems 1:7 is just a bit too picky on the side of needing heavy stuff..

Will see when I get this barrel in, I got in line but the wait is 1 to 3 months - thats ok and kinda what I anticipated, just wanted to get in line so I get my barrel shopping done ahead of any further political insanity.

Do have all the parts for a 22 inch creedmoor sitting here as well which I have high hopes for, may put the barrel on and verify function, but unfortunately it is going to need about $1800 in glass and a bipod before I am "done" and that I am deprioritzing until I get this barrel business fully budgeted/paid. Basically I am a little concerned if politics go to hell these "AR parts" might become even harder to get, am a few barrels (a 16 inch creedmoor, two 5.56's) and a couple parts away from comfortable there.

As far as the AR10 goes - prone I don't know what disadvantage they have, they ought to do a little better.. shouldered I get it, absolutely are heavy and imbalanced, even a light one is so, if I was trying to do my best on paper I would not pick one.
what is the point of a 16" X. X Creedmoor? One of the factors of creedmoor doing so well is velocity.?
Your more likely to find a 6.5 barrel in stock i think.
so pick up one and chop off a few inches?
Will 6.5 CM burn up barrels quicker? Will there be more muzzle flash do to the short barrel ?
Until I have easy access and boat load of time to get to 500 yards or more i have not even thought much about building a 6.5 CM in any form.
 
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PappyM3

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What has steered me away from them here at least on the 16 inch stuff is I want chrome. I know it is only a hair more durable, just prefer that route. If I can't find that 16 inch .308 in chrome lined I think they would be a solid option for nitride and could probably shave some weight too.
Unless you’re doing full auto fire, chrome is overkill. Nitriding will provide you with more than enough durability, and can be more precise than chrome lining.

If you are shooting 55's in a 1:7, no wonder accuracy sucks. That's too fast of a twist rate for 55's. They may keyhole or even go poof at some point. 69's or heavier for that barrel.
Not quite. 55s will not keyhole in 1:7s, unless something is seriously wrong. You can’t overstabilize to the point of key-holing. They can be spun to fast and go poof as you said. They can also exhibit horrible precision because the high RPMs from being spun so fast will accentuate imperfections in the balance of the bullet construction. But a good quality 55gr bullet should still be precise in a 1:7. Cheap stuff is going to shoot worse than in a 1:9 though.

Also, you do not need to go up to a 69gr for a 1:7. 62gr will do just fine.

All that said, my most accurate barrels have all been 1:8 (or 1:7.7). And those will even stabilize 80gr SMKs. My 1:7.7 stabilizes 80gr ELDs too, but I be it’s pretty close to being unstable if I lowered the charge just slightly.
 

PappyM3

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what is the point of a 16" X. X Creedmoor? One of the factors of creedmoor doing so well is velocity.?
Your more likely to find a 6.5 barrel in stock i think.
so pick up one and chop off a few inches?
Will 6.5 CM burn up barrels quicker? Will there be more muzzle flash do to the short barrel ?
Until I have easy access and boat load of time to get to 500 yards or more i have not even thought much about building a 6.5 CM in any form.

Nope. Velocity isn’t what gives 6.5 CM an edge. Ballistic coefficient to buck the wind and the ability to RETAIN more of the velocity it starts with is what gives it an edge.

A 16” 6.5CM handles wind better than a 20-22” 308, with like bullets. That 16” 6.5CM only gives up 100-150 FPS over a 20-24” 6.5CM.
 

teamRR

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The reason I want chrome in a couple of these carbines is a "feeling" about longevity.

Maybe I just have a wonkey barrel in this 7.62 carbine but it went from as reliable as anything I owned to not even 3000 rounds later getting over gassed with ejection problems. BCG, spring, ammo, all were eliminated as the cause, I first slowed it down to reliable via spring and buffer, later went adjustable gas block but suspect gas port erosion. Also it is like at best, good ammo, a 2.5 MOA rifle now too and was lots better when it started. I feel the barrel was simply short lived, so the next one will be more robust.

On the 6.5 creedmoor, what pappy said but I see this Faxon match series 16 inch stainless + QPQ creedmoor barrel that would shave about 9 ounces out of an AR10, particularly in the muzzle. Have a spare guard, BCG, upper, lower, all sitting here, and got this vision of a lower recoiling AR10 with a light scope, ie a 3-9x of modest diameter. Am short a barrel, trigger, charging handle, scope, thinking it would be a handy rifle and will chip away at that.
 

mac1911

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The reason I want chrome in a couple of these carbines is a "feeling" about longevity.

Maybe I just have a wonkey barrel in this 7.62 carbine but it went from as reliable as anything I owned to not even 3000 rounds later getting over gassed with ejection problems. BCG, spring, ammo, all were eliminated as the cause, I first slowed it down to reliable via spring and buffer, later went adjustable gas block but suspect gas port erosion. Also it is like at best, good ammo, a 2.5 MOA rifle now too and was lots better when it started. I feel the barrel was simply short lived, so the next one will be more robust.

On the 6.5 creedmoor, what pappy said but I see this Faxon match series 16 inch stainless + QPQ creedmoor barrel that would shave about 9 ounces out of an AR10, particularly in the muzzle. Have a spare guard, BCG, upper, lower, all sitting here, and got this vision of a lower recoiling AR10 with a light scope, ie a 3-9x of modest diameter. Am short a barrel, trigger, charging handle, scope, thinking it would be a handy rifle and will chip away at that.
Nice plan for the 6.5
 

mac1911

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Nope. Velocity isn’t what gives 6.5 CM an edge. Ballistic coefficient to buck the wind and the ability to RETAIN more of the velocity it starts with is what gives it an edge.

A 16” 6.5CM handles wind better than a 20-22” 308, with like bullets. That 16” 6.5CM only gives up 100-150 FPS over a 20-24” 6.5CM.
its just stuck in my head that im not shooting 6.5 unless its 500 yards plus so in my head every added velocity will help.
 
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Right now getting barrels from any manufacturer is difficult to impossible. The only ones I've seen available are those in the 20 inch length. Our local department was waiting for some uppers from rock River and they stated it would be six to eight weeks at the minimum due to the wait for barrels.
 

teamRR

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Right now getting barrels from any manufacturer is difficult to impossible. The only ones I've seen available are those in the 20 inch length. Our local department was waiting for some uppers from rock River and they stated it would be six to eight weeks at the minimum due to the wait for barrels.

Definitely is so, however when you get into $300+ they are more commonly found.

In my case I am just getting stuff on order, might not even see it for months, that's ok. Some manufacturers or retailers you can't do that but for instance Criterion allows backorder, anything OP sells can be backordered etc etc
 
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