Tula Sniper From Somewhere Other Than Usual....

[martin08]

Picked this one up last week for kicks...

Presenting an all Tula marked 1943 M91/30 Sniper. Refurbished, yes. But in near pristine condition. I have only seen one other gun like it. Very similarly featured to my Polish refurbished PU sniper, but without the telltale beech stock.

No import marks on this one. Every part of the gun is Tula marked. Deep, dark re-bluing, rear sight in the white, stock has oil finish. It has got to be the most gorgeous Tula M91/30 that I have ever seen.

Post-war base, mount, and 1965 refurbished scope from the Progress factory.

Pics. Lots of them. It surely is unique. And thanks for looking.

 

[Boris]

wow, incredible condition, I don't know how you score all these goodies but I'm up for adoption if you ever want to do it

 

[MAGG]

hey Martin you SUCK!! haha and i mean that sarcastically and out of jealousy. is this a karma ?? beautiful gun

 

[flintoid]

non import marked in that good of shape? So let's have it- where in the world did this thing originate from? Any theories?

those have got to be some of the most beautiful Tula proof marks I've seen on a m91/30, let alone sniper. So succinct and well placed. Do you think they were struck in refurb or in birth? They're so crisp.

 

[atilla]

so many pretty stars. nice find.

 

[Billsail]

Is Uberti making replicas of these now!?!?

 

[martin08]

Thanks, all.

I've had this gun up on Gunboards for a few days, now. Love/hate relationship going on with it, as I fully expected. But if it interests you, please read on!

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?291074-All-Tula-But-What-Else-Lots-of-pics

I think it is a Polish refurbished sniper. Origins were pre-68 bringbacks from military bases in Germany, silently slipping across the border from Canada during less stringent import times, or as part of a cache that made its way back from Grenada in the early 1980's.

But whoever refurbished this one, they did a FANTASTIC job. And wherever it originally came from, what matters the most is that it is in my vault now!

 

[majspud]

Wow, tough bunch. No worse I guess than the Mauser forum!

MS

 

[martin08]

Wow, tough bunch. No worse I guess than the Mauser forum!

MS

As I stated earlier, I fully expected a boatload of skepticism and even outright dismissal of the entire firearm. But this one is from "somewhere other than usual", meaning that it isn't the typical configuration that one might find in an attempted forgery. Most frauds would try to make a Soviet sniper to look just like a usual Soviet sniper.

So the scheme of this gun doesn't fit the mold - and it's a bit threatening to the naysayers. They're having a tough time picking it apart, when I've addressed all of their fraud claims with, what I think, a damn good sequence of evidential pics and comparisons. Blanket statements claiming "hump" are about all that remain.

I don't know what I have, with 100% certainty. Meaning I can't prove that this sniper was refurbished in Poland. But I can say with confidence, there is no scrubbed part on this matching gun. And it's purdy!

 

[flintoid]

I'm curious about the texture on the receiver where the Tula factory mark is- casting impurities or relics of a refurb?

How did the polish refurb rifles? Or any country refurb them? Specifically - number scrubbing? I am not familiar with any of this. I'd figure that one could sand blast light serial numbers out of a receiver with some masking and then restamp. Or did some receivers come out with this rough texture after production?

It's made some very interesting reading. But the instant negativity and skepticism can get old- I don't know how you can deal with it while keeping a straight face. I've had people PM me on the AK forum threatening harm on me if I was to "scrub" the numbers off of a $350 tula AK kit front trunnion as they were sick of the thought of someone "molesting" an "original part." Took me weeks to go back to that forum so that I wouldn't PM something back that I'd regret.

Critics can be tough.

I think it's a nice rifle, regardless of what you find. It's short money for a sniper.

 

[martin08]

I suspect that you are talking about the Tula factory mark on the barrel shank?

1940's Mosins were not known for their smooth finishes, as war-time production didn't allow for any buffing before stamping. Therefore there are a lot of tooling marks, in general.

The Poles took their time building Mosin Nagants of their own, and put out possibly the best looking M44 series of them all. So when they received older Soviet-built guns, they refurbished them to a higher standard than one might find on a Ukrainian refurbishment. The gun above, if it was done by the Poles, would have received some or all of the following: Acid dip to remove old bluing/light rust. Buffing of exposed metal areas. Sandblasting of pitting if needed. And the deep, dark bluing that one finds on a Polish military gun.

So, much of the original Soviet tooling marks have been diminished on this gun, but the usual Soviet serial number was never stamped on the barrel shank of this one. Instead, it has an odd, large font - and very neatly stamped to match on all other parts. Indicating that this numbering sequence was not done in 1943, and perhaps applied at much later date and using parts that were leftover.

One thing that the naysayers are having a tough time with.... there are no scrubbed numbers on the gun, even though they are trying hard to see them. Scrubbed and restamped numbers will always leave some evidence. Metal has to be removed to scrub them.

Anyway. It's a beauty. One of the best looking snipers out there.

 

[Billsail]

Is Uberti making replicas of these now!?!?

Please, please guys! I'm sorry if I came across as skeptical. Truth be told, I know squat, to very little about these pieces. What started off as a compliment, comparing it to one of the beautiful Uberti repros, turned into a snide looking remark, and I can see how many would see it that way. I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought the "winky" face would be enough.

 

[JuergenG]

Another nice one in Martin 's collection. Congrats!

 

[martin08]

Please, please guys! I'm sorry if I came across as skeptical. Truth be told, I know squat, to very little about these pieces. What started off as a compliment, comparing it to one of the beautiful Uberti repros, turned into a snide looking remark, and I can see how many would see it that way. I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought the "winky" face would be enough.

I thought it was very witty and clever. No offense taken, whatsoever!

 

[flintoid]

thank you for your replies in this thread, martin08. I enjoy your knowledge on mosins. It's a pleasure to read your posts.

 

[Soxfan9]

Nice rifle. Is there any significance to the in the white rear sight? I have a Finn captured 91/30 with an in the white rear sight as well.

 

[martin08]

Rear sight leafs in the white are most commonly found on Yugoslavian and Polish refurbs. Occasionally they'll show up on Finns, too.

Here's my beech-stocked Polish refurbished sniper, and then a side-by-side of the two rear sight leafs.

 

[50 BMG]

Martin, what a wonderful piece of history. Don't you wish we could acquire the arsenal book on some of these. To see where they started out from, when they were moved to another country etc. That is one VERY beautiful rifle my friend. Coming from a fellow Mosin collector that is one rifle i would be proud to own. With that said can I buy it. Only kidding.

The star markings are very strong, do you think it may have made its way to the Czechs at one point? I have a Czech marked Tula sniper dated 1943 with similar markings but not as many. You are also correct as to the rear sight . If you look at some later Hungarians they too had a rather polished look to them. Either way its just a great score. Congrats buddy.

I love Mosins, I know they are not as smooth as Mausers or as OCD built as the Mausers but they seemed to be the platform for the worlds most prolific sniper. A Finn using a M28. A Mosin receiver.

Plus we don't have to look for matching numbered screws, barrel bands, cleaning rods, stocks, firing pins, safety, etc. etc. etc. to have a collector rifle