Transporting Handgun into MA or CT for Competitive Shooting Match.

[Airwolfe1]

I hope to become more active shooting this year and I want to try to make it to some of the IDPA events in MA & CT. As a resident of NH can I just lock up my handgun in a case throw it in the trunk and drive to the match or is there some bureaucratic paperwork that must be submitted that would take weeks to accomplish and the season will be over. And what if I drive my pickup truck that doesn't have a trunk?

 

[wmccurdy53]

I hope to become more active shooting this year and I want to try to make it to some of the IDPA events in MA & CT. As a resident of NH can I just lock up my handgun in a case throw it in the trunk and drive to the match or is there some bureaucratic paperwork that must be submitted that would take weeks to accomplish and the season will be over. And what if I drive my pickup truck that doesn't have a trunk?

Yes, I do that all the time. Make sure it is unloaded before you case it.

 

[Scrivener]

LOCKED case for those in pick-ups; UNLOADED.

Bring a copy of your registration or the match schedule to prove it is a formal competition; not just plinking or something like an NES shoot.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

MA Answer: MGL chapter 140 Section 131G. You are also required to have a license from a state, district or territory that does not issue licenses to drug users or felons. (This later part is a detail in the law often omitted from summaries posted to the web).

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131g.htm

 

[Len-2A Training]

Also make sure that you do NOT bring any post-9/13/1994 mfd hi-cap mags into MA . . . it's a felony to possess. [Only via FOPA can you legally transport these mags THRU MA to another state, just don't stop in MA for anything more than gas/bathroom/meal.]

 

[Airwolfe1]

MA Answer: MGL chapter 140 Section 131G. You are also required to have a license from a state, district or territory that does not issue licenses to drug users or felons. (This later part is a detail in the law often omitted from summaries posted to the web).

So a Concealed or Pistol Licence/Permit from any State would apply? I can't imaging any State, District or Territory would issue to a drug user or felon. Those are all typically cause for denial.

 

[Airwolfe1]

Thank you all for the response about transporting in MA and thank you LenS for reminding me about the "Hi Cap Mags". Living up here in the FREE country of New Hampshire we don't even think about our everyday Mags being Contra-ban, Damn, now I need to purchase a bunch of M&P 9 10 rd mags. ($40 a piece)

Now am I correect in assuming the responses posted above are for both MA AND CT?

 

[BrianWilson]

So a Concealed or Pistol Licence/Permit from any State would apply? I can't imaging any State, District or Territory would issue to a drug user or felon. Those are all typically cause for denial.

I think the issue is Vermont.

 

[jar]

http://gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=SW-MPXXXX

They gave me the runaround on backorder for a while, but I did get them eventually for $25.

 

[Scrivener]

I think the issue is Vermont.

A letter from the chief will suffice.

 

[ScottS]

Damn, now I need to purchase a bunch of M&P 9 10 rd mags. ($40 a piece)

I can relate. I've decided to shoot ESP this year, and now I'm running around scrounging up 10-rd XD9 mags. Just when you thought a couple of dozen 16-round mags would be enough...

 

[Glshooter]

There are no mag restrictions in CT. Kind of hard to get to CT without going through Mass. though. Makes for a longer trip. Some people just hide them in the trunk and make sure you don't get pulled over. Not that I've ever done that!!!!

 

[BossHarley]

My understanding is you are legally permitted to travel through MA (or any other state/city) with items you are legally allowed to own in your home state, and in your final destination. I believe this is a federal law regarding transportation - you definitely want to transport locked, unloaded, separate from ammunition etc.

When I moved to CT I called the State police regarding this issue. They informed me that I was good to go as long as I followed proper storage etc.

 

[ScottS]

My understanding is you are legally permitted to travel through MA (or any other state/city) with items you are legally allowed to own in your home state, and in your final destination. I believe this is a federal law regarding transportation - you definitely want to transport locked, unloaded, separate from ammunition etc.

When I moved to CT I called the State police regarding this issue. They informed me that I was good to go as long as I followed proper storage etc.

Correct. Len made mention of this in post #5 of this thread.

 

[GSG]

My understanding is you are legally permitted to travel through MA (or any other state/city) with items you are legally allowed to own in your home state, and in your final destination. I believe this is a federal law regarding transportation - you definitely want to transport locked, unloaded, separate from ammunition etc.

Yes, as LenS said, this is the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, it's federal law, but remember it has it's own set of rules to follow.

So a Concealed or Pistol Licence/Permit from any State would apply? I can't imaging any State, District or Territory would issue to a drug user or felon. Those are all typically cause for denial.

NO!!!! Not for Mass. anyway.

Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 140 Section 131G states:

Chapter 140: Section 131G. Carrying of firearms by non-residents; conditions


Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.

This means that you need to have a license to carry/pistol permit issued by a state that will not issue it to people who have felony or drug convictions.

For instance, if you have ever been convicted of any drug crime, Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Connecticut will never issue you a license to carry (or whatever the term is in that state). However, Florida will issue a Concealed Weapons Permit to people who have misdemeanor drug convictions if 3 years have passed between the date of conviction and the date of application for the license. New Hampshire will issue a pistol permit to people with misdemeanor drug convictions. Even if you haven't been convicted of these things, the issue is with the licensing process of the state that you are licensed in. So if you only have a NH or FL permit, you are not allowed to bring pistols into Mass. for competition.

But there is a cheap way around this. Get a Pennsylvania Non-Resident LTCF. It's $26 for 5 years, and it's very simple to get through the mail. Since PA won't issue an LTCF if you've ever been convicted of a drug crime, this will cover you in Mass. Typically they issue the license in 1-2 weeks.

Here's a link to the application and instructions for Pennsylvania.

http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/license_application.asp

Now am I correect in assuming the responses posted above are for both MA AND CT?

Connecticut has it's own set of gun laws, they start at section 29-27 in this link:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/pub/chap529.htm

Connecticut General Statutes Chapter 529 Section 29-35 states the following:

Sec. 29-35. Carrying of pistol or revolver without permit prohibited. Exceptions. (a) No person shall carry any pistol or revolver upon his or her person, except when such person is within the dwelling house or place of business of such person, without a permit to carry the same issued as provided in section 29-28. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to the carrying of any pistol or revolver by any parole officer or peace officer of this state, or parole officer or peace officer of any other state while engaged in the pursuit of official duties, or federal marshal or federal law enforcement agent, or to any member of the armed forces of the United States, as defined in section 27-103, or of this state, as defined in section 27-2, when on duty or going to or from duty, or to any member of any military organization when on parade or when going to or from any place of assembly, or to the transportation of pistols or revolvers as merchandise, or to any person transporting any pistol or revolver while contained in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and while transporting the same from the place of sale to the purchaser's residence or place of business, or to any person removing such person's household goods or effects from one place to another, or to any person while transporting any such pistol or revolver from such person's place of residence or business to a place or individual where or by whom such pistol or revolver is to be repaired or while returning to such person's place of residence or business after the same has been repaired, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver in or through the state for the purpose of taking part in competitions, taking part in formal pistol or revolver training, repairing such pistol or revolver or attending any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors' group if such person is a bona fide resident of the United States and is permitted to possess and carry a pistol or revolver in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides, or to any person transporting a pistol or revolver to and from a testing range at the request of the issuing authority, or to any person transporting an antique pistol or revolver, as defined in section 29-33. For the purposes of this subsection, "formal pistol or revolver training" means pistol or revolver training at a locally approved or permitted firing range or training facility, and "transporting a pistol or revolver" means transporting a pistol or revolver that is unloaded and, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle, is not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, if such pistol or revolver is being transported in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, such pistol or revolver shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the carrying of a pistol or revolver during formal pistol or revolver training or repair.

(b) The holder of a permit issued pursuant to section 29-28 shall carry such permit upon one's person while carrying such pistol or revolver.

Meaning if you're going to a competition in Connecticut and the gun is locked up and unloaded, it's legal.

But, since you want to go to matches in both Mass. and Connecticut, I'd recommend that you get a Connecticut State Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers. Even though it's legal to transport a pistol to a match without one, if you have it you're much less likely to be arrested or hassled by a cop who doesn't know or doesn't care about that exemption to CT law. Also, since CT doesn't issue permits to people with drug convictions, this license would allow you to transport pistols into Mass. for competitions as well. Below is the link for the CT permit and the number to call to request an application.

http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&q=294502

Out of state residents may apply for a non resident Connecticut State Pistol Permit. Non residents apply directly to the Connecticut State Police. Call 860-685-8494 to have an application mailed out.

The downside to the CT permit is that it costs more money ($70 for the permit alone, plus other fees) and you have to have proof of state approved training, passport photos, application notarized, etc. But it's cheap insurance, and it would fit your situation pretty well, since you could use it in CT and Mass. Heck, you could even get the PA permit now and be 100% legal in both CT and Mass., and use that while you get everything together for the CT permit.

If you have any more questions this is the place to ask, since you don't want to accidentally break gun laws, they tend to have serious penalties.

 

[GSG]

A few other things that I forgot.

You should print out copies of the Mass. and CT laws to carry with you in case you get pulled over.

The CT laws I linked to in the post above.

The Mass. laws pertinent to this are:

MGL 140-131g

MGL 269-10 (lists exemptions)

Also keep in mind any mags that hold more than 10 rounds going into Mass. need to have been made pre-1994 AWB (aka "pre-ban mags") to stay compliant with MGL 140-131m. You also need a Mass. non-res. LTC to possess any mags that hold more than 10 rounds in MA.

One final thing, MGL 269-10(m) states:

(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (a) or (h), any person not exempted by statute who knowingly has in his possession, or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle, a large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device therefor who does not possess a valid Class A or Class B license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, except as permitted or otherwise provided under this section or chapter 140, shall be punished by imprisonment in a state prison for not less than two and one-half years nor more than ten years. The possession of a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B shall not be a defense for a violation of this subsection; provided, however, that any such person charged with violating this paragraph and holding a valid firearm identification card shall not be subject to any mandatory minimum sentence imposed by this paragraph. The sentence imposed upon such person shall not be reduced to less than one year, nor suspended, nor shall any person convicted under this subsection be eligible for probation, parole, furlough, work release or receive any deduction from his sentence for good conduct until he shall have served such minimum term of such sentence; provided, however, that the commissioner of correction may, on the recommendation of the warden, superintendent or other person in charge of a correctional institution or the administrator of a county correctional institution, grant to such offender a temporary release in the custody of an officer of such institution for the following purposes only: (i) to attend the funeral of a spouse or next of kin; (ii) to visit a critically ill close relative or spouse; or (iii) to obtain emergency medical services unavailable at such institution. Prosecutions commenced under this subsection shall neither be continued without a finding nor placed on file. The provisions of section 87 of chapter 276 relative to the power of the court to place certain offenders on probation shall not apply to any person 17 years of age or over charged with a violation of this section.

The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device by (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any other state or the United States, including any federal, state or local law enforcement personnel; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; (iv) any federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to acquire, possess or carry a large capacity semiautomatic weapon and is acting within the scope of his duties; or (v) any gunsmith duly licensed under the applicable federal law.

This means that there's certain handguns that it's a felony for you to posess in Mass. without a resident or non-resident Massachusetts License to Carry. Even with 10 round mags, most Glocks, Springfield XD's, S&W M&P's and other pistols are considered "large capacity." That's a whole other can of worms that LenS has a much better handle on than I do, so I'll let him chime in to explain.

If you want a Massachusetts Non-Resident License to Carry it's $100 per year, you have to apply in person, the application and instructions are at this link:

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/MIRCS Non-Resident LTC application - for website.pdf

Finally, if you're coming to Mass. for competition or anything else, remember that you can't buy ammo while you're there, even if you have a non-resident LTC issued by the state of Mass. Bring whatever ammo you'll need for the match down with you.

I think I covered it all.

 

[Len-2A Training]

IANAL and my expertise on NR issues is nowhere as solid as it is for Resident gun law issues. In fact, I asked a couple of NR questions of GOAL and Chief Glidden and was told that neither were interested in researching NR issues.

So with that said . . .

- My interpretation of MGL Ch. 140 S. 131G is that they are using the term "carrying" as (IANAL) I understand it to mean carrying a loaded gun on one's person or within one's control. I don't interpret this as the same as "transporting" a gun to an event that a NR is participating in. I know that others don't agree and I'm not sure that any of our lawyers on NES have weighed in on this issue.

- MGL Ch. 269 S. 10m again has an exemption under MGL Ch. 140 that I believe can apply to NRs to allow transport of any gun (other than "AW" or post-ban hi-cap mag) into MA for legitimate purposes of attending a competition or hunting (with appropriate hunting license). Again I know that others disagree and I don't know how any of our attorneys feel about this particular law or my interpretation.

I'm not offering advice here and as I stated above, I've been unable to get a clear reading from anyone who should know what the intent and interpretations should be.

 

[Airwolfe1]

Great information from all of you guys! I have the CT application sitting on my desk and I currently possess FL, ME, PA & NH. The MA application is also on the desk but that will be the big challenge from what I'm hearing on the forum, but I digress.

So when LenS brought up the mag capacity issue, it dawned on me that I would have to find 10 round mags for my M&P and my XD(m). However, SA doesn't make 10rd mags for the XD(m) and my son, who works at State Line Gun Shop, indicated that Mass residents are not allowed to purchase XD(m)'s. That then prompted the question, "Can I only bring and shoot, MA approved handguns?" I posted another thread asking the question, "Can You Change an XD(m) Mag from 19rd to 10rd and be in Compliance with MA Law?" but upon further thought, it may be a moot point if I can't bring the XD(m) into the RepubliK.

 

[Airwolfe1]

"I'm not offering advice here and as I stated above, I've been unable to get a clear reading from anyone who should know what the intent and interpretations should be."

BTW: Of course no one should consider any information found on a forum as "legal advice", however I do appreciate everyone's opinion in this matter and it is through other individual's who share their experience and interpretations that I can base my own decisions and actions. Without any legal precedence regarding the questions posed, it will actually fall on the actions of an LEO and whether he chooses to pursue the issue. Only then will we have a more definitive interpretation of what the law is. I just want to try to operate conscientiously and legitimately within the purpose and intent of the law. The repercussions of doing otherwise is not a pretty thought.

 

[Len-2A Training]

With a MA NR LTC, you can possess any handgun (need not be "approved") in MA (that isn't a so-called "AW") . . . it's the mags that cause a problem if post-ban hi-cap.

Don't know for certain wrt modifying XD mags to 10 rds.

 

[GSG]

- My interpretation of MGL Ch. 140 S. 131G is that they are using the term "carrying" as (IANAL) I understand it to mean carrying a loaded gun on one's person or within one's control. I don't interpret this as the same as "transporting" a gun to an event that a NR is participating in. I know that others don't agree and I'm not sure that any of our lawyers on NES have weighed in on this issue.

Yup. I got into this issue starting in post #20 of this thread.

- MGL Ch. 269 S. 10m again has an exemption under MGL Ch. 140 that I believe can apply to NRs to allow transport of any gun (other than "AW" or post-ban hi-cap mag) into MA for legitimate purposes of attending a competition or hunting (with appropriate hunting license). Again I know that others disagree and I don't know how any of our attorneys feel about this particular law or my interpretation.

I'm getting into this below, but I don't think that MGL 140-131G (non-residents carrying to competitions) exemption applies to "large capacity firearms."

MGL 269-10(a) says:

Section 10. (a) Whoever, except as provided or exempted by statute, knowingly has in his possession; or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle; a firearm, loaded or unloaded, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty without either:

(1) being present in or on his residence or place of business; or

(2) having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section one hundred and thirty-one of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(3) having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section one hundred and thirty-one F of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(4) having complied with the provisions of sections one hundred and twenty-nine C and one hundred and thirty-one G of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(5) having complied as to possession of an air rifle or BB gun with the requirements imposed by section twelve B; and whoever knowingly has in his possession; or knowingly has under control in a vehicle; a rifle or shotgun, loaded or unloaded, without either:

(1) being present in or on his residence or place of business; or

(2) having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section one hundred and thirty-one of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(3) having in effect a license to carry firearms issued under section one hundred and thirty-one F of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(4) having in effect a firearms identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B of chapter one hundred and forty; or

(5) having complied with the requirements imposed by section one hundred and twenty-nine C of chapter one hundred and forty upon ownership or possession of rifles and shotguns; or

(6) having complied as to possession of an air rifle or BB gun with the requirements imposed by section twelve B; shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years, or for not less than 18 months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction. The sentence imposed on such person shall not be reduced to less than 18 months, nor suspended, nor shall any person convicted under this subsection be eligible for probation, parole, work release, or furlough or receive any deduction from his sentence for good conduct until he shall have served 18 months of such sentence; provided, however, that the commissioner of correction may on the recommendation of the warden, superintendent, or other person in charge of a correctional institution, grant to an offender committed under this subsection a temporary release in the custody of an officer of such institution for the following purposes only: to attend the funeral of a relative; to visit a critically ill relative; or to obtain emergency medical or psychiatric service unavailable at said institution. Prosecutions commenced under this subsection shall neither be continued without a finding nor placed on file.

But here's my issue. MGL 269-10(m) (which I quoted below) doesn't list the 140-131G thing in the exemptions to that law.

So when LenS brought up the mag capacity issue, it dawned on me that I would have to find 10 round mags for my M&P and my XD(m). However, SA doesn't make 10rd mags for the XD(m) and my son, who works at State Line Gun Shop, indicated that Mass residents are not allowed to purchase XD(m)'s. That then prompted the question, "Can I only bring and shoot, MA approved handguns?" I posted another thread asking the question, "Can You Change an XD(m) Mag from 19rd to 10rd and be in Compliance with MA Law?" but upon further thought, it may be a moot point if I can't bring the XD(m) into the RepubliK.

The restrictions we're talking about when you hear "Mass. compliant" are on what a Mass. dealer can sell, but not on what you can posess in this state.

BUT, there's something else to keep in mind. Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 269 Section 10(m) states:

(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (a) or (h), any person not exempted by statute who knowingly has in his possession, or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle, a large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device therefor who does not possess a valid Class A or Class B license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, except as permitted or otherwise provided under this section or chapter 140, shall be punished by imprisonment in a state prison for not less than two and one-half years nor more than ten years. The possession of a valid firearm identification card issued under section 129B shall not be a defense for a violation of this subsection; provided, however, that any such person charged with violating this paragraph and holding a valid firearm identification card shall not be subject to any mandatory minimum sentence imposed by this paragraph. The sentence imposed upon such person shall not be reduced to less than one year, nor suspended, nor shall any person convicted under this subsection be eligible for probation, parole, furlough, work release or receive any deduction from his sentence for good conduct until he shall have served such minimum term of such sentence; provided, however, that the commissioner of correction may, on the recommendation of the warden, superintendent or other person in charge of a correctional institution or the administrator of a county correctional institution, grant to such offender a temporary release in the custody of an officer of such institution for the following purposes only: (i) to attend the funeral of a spouse or next of kin; (ii) to visit a critically ill close relative or spouse; or (iii) to obtain emergency medical services unavailable at such institution. Prosecutions commenced under this subsection shall neither be continued without a finding nor placed on file. The provisions of section 87 of chapter 276 relative to the power of the court to place certain offenders on probation shall not apply to any person 17 years of age or over charged with a violation of this section.

The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device by (i) any officer, agent or employee of the commonwealth or any other state or the United States, including any federal, state or local law enforcement personnel; (ii) any member of the military or other service of any state or the United States; (iii) any duly authorized law enforcement officer, agent or employee of any municipality of the commonwealth; (iv) any federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public; provided, however, that any such person described in clauses (i) to (iii), inclusive, is authorized by a competent authority to acquire, possess or carry a large capacity semiautomatic weapon and is acting within the scope of his duties; or (v) any gunsmith duly licensed under the applicable federal law.

A "large capacity" pistol is a pistol that has ever been shipped to civilians with magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, or that is listed on the Executive Office of Public Safety Large Capacity Firearms Roster. You can find the roster at the below link.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopssub...ervices&L3=Approved+Weapons+Rosters&sid=Eeops

Since the Springfield XDm has been shipped with high cap mags, even if you had 10 round mags in it, it's still considered a "large capacity" firearm in Mass., and you'd need a non-resident Mass. LTC to posess it in the state, or you'd be committing a felony. So I don't think you can legally bring that particular pistol into Mass. for competitions.

 

[GSG]

Without any legal precedence regarding the questions posed, it will actually fall on the actions of an LEO and whether he chooses to pursue the issue.

This is exactly what it comes down to. Most of these areas of law are so obscure that most people, cops included, will never think about them. The problem for you is what you risk if you run into a cop who doesn't know or care what the law is and arrests you anyway, or if you unknowingly violate them.

My advice (other than my views on the laws that I posted above) can be summed up with a few lines:
-Know the laws, keep copies with you & be prepared to explain how you're not breaking any of them.
-Keep the guns locked up and out of sight.
-Obey all traffic laws, and don't spend more time than you have to in Mass.
-Get a non-resident license for Mass. if you plan on competing in Mass., even if you're legal under MGL 140-131G, just because having it will greatly reduce any confusion from cops or judges.
-Help support HR 2259, which would eliminate a lot of this BS and make it easier for non-residents to get licensed in Mass. (link here http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/95517-My-challenge-to-you)

 

[ScottS]

Great information from all of you guys! I have the CT application sitting on my desk and I currently possess FL, ME, PA & NH. The MA application is also on the desk but that will be the big challenge from what I'm hearing on the forum, but I digress.

So when LenS brought up the mag capacity issue, it dawned on me that I would have to find 10 round mags for my M&P and my XD(m). However, SA doesn't make 10rd mags for the XD(m) and my son, who works at State Line Gun Shop, indicated that Mass residents are not allowed to purchase XD(m)'s. That then prompted the question, "Can I only bring and shoot, MA approved handguns?" I posted another thread asking the question, "Can You Change an XD(m) Mag from 19rd to 10rd and be in Compliance with MA Law?" but upon further thought, it may be a moot point if I can't bring the XD(m) into the RepubliK.

Don't confuse "can not purchase" with "can not possess." The MA "approved handgun roster" only speaks to an FFL's ability to transfer it to a MA resident. That's why people talk about "leaving guns behind" in MA when they leave, i.e. selling them FTF to another MA resident to keep them in the state. Also, people moving into MA are advised to purchase certain handguns prior to the move.

As long as you're legal in MA (organized match, or NR-LTC), the XDm is, too. I don't know how you're going to handle the 10-round mag issue, though.

 

[Airwolfe1]

I don't know how you're going to handle the 10-round mag issue, though.

I posed the question, Can you convert a 19rd mag to 10rd and be in compliance with MA Law? in another thread. Got some mixed responses. I have found a website with instructions on how to reduce the capacity of an XD(m) mag and I will present the task to State Line Gun Shop and see what ideas Eric or Paul may have.

I just want to be relatively confident I am "legal to posses" the XD(m) while shooting at a match and having permanently modified XD(m) mags to 10 rounds are considered acceptable.

 

[GSG]

As long as you're legal in MA (organized match, or NR-LTC), the XDm is, too.

I just want to be relatively confident I am "legal to posses" the XD(m) while shooting at a match and having permanently modified XD(m) mags to 10 rounds are considered acceptable.

I just want to be clear that it appears to be a felony to posess the XDm, which is a "large capacity" pistol, without an LTC in Mass, even if you're attending a competition with it.

I have found a website with instructions on how to reduce the capacity of an XD(m) mag and I will present the task to State Line Gun Shop and see what ideas Eric or Paul may have.

The issue with your high cap mag modification is the Mass. version of the 94 AWB is that Mass. law doesn't spell out anything regarding definitions of what is compliant. There's some good info being discussed in this thread. Most people seem to stick to what the old federal standard was, but there's nothing concrete in Mass. law on the matter.

I'll also point out that State Line Gun Shop in Mason has a reputation for not fully understanding Mass. laws, especially when it comes to Assault Weapons Ban issues. So you should probably cross reference anything they tell you with the law.

 

[GSG]

Some more info on why I think the XDm isn't allowed in state without an LTC.

When a new resident moves to Mass., they have a 60 day period in which they're exempt from the licensing laws to get licensed. Here's the law on the subject:

MGl 140-129C(j):

(j) Any new resident moving into the commonwealth, any resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days or any resident of the commonwealth upon being released from active service with any of the armed services of the United States with respect to any firearm, rifle or shotgun and any ammunition therefor then in his possession, for 60 days after such release, return or entry into the commonwealth;

Keep in mind that in this section of Mass. law, when they say "firearm," what they really mean is "pistol." So the law allows a new resident to have any pistol without violating the law for 60 days.

MGL 140-131G states:

Chapter 140: Section 131G. Carrying of firearms by non-residents; conditions


Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.

It doesn't mention the word "any," which leads me to believe that MGL 269-10(m) still applies to people attending competitions:

(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (a) or (h), any person not exempted by statute who knowingly has in his possession, or knowingly has under his control in a vehicle, a large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device therefor who does not possess a valid Class A or Class B license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or 131F of chapter 140, except as permitted or otherwise provided under this section or chapter 140, shall be punished by imprisonment in a state prison for not less than two and one-half years nor more than ten years.

This part of the law seems very clear to me.

However, keep in mind that MGL 140-131G was written many many years before MGL 269-10(m). This is from the case Commonwealth v. Kenneth Wood (1986):

In this case, we must determine whether the defendant has satisfied the exemption set forth in G. L. c. 269, Section 10 (a) (3). This exemption provides a defense to a person charged with unlawfully carrying a firearm, if that person is "complying with the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C and one hundred and thirty-one G of chapter one hundred and forty." G. L. c. 269, Section 10 (a) (3).

A skilled, expensive lawyer might be able to argue that the intent of MGL 140-131G when it was written many years ago was to include "any" type of pistol, since logically they couldn't know when they wrote it that MGL's would be written in the future to re-classify certain types of guns. But, I think that's a shaky argument at best, and if you were convicted of violating MGL 269-10(m) you'd be federally prohibited from posessing firearms or ammo for the rest of your life. To me the risk isn't worth it when you can pick up a single stack 1911 or similar gun to compete with.

It sucks to live with, but c'est la Massachusetts.

 

[Airwolfe1]

As always, very good points GSG.

 

[GSG]

As always, very good points GSG.

Not always. This thread was my very first post on here.

And for the record, I asked because I was told that in a gunshop, and I purchased carry guns accordingly.

 

[ScottS]

GSG,

Explain again why it's illegal to use an XDm in an otherwise approved venue (i.e. competition), but OK to use other "Hicap" weapons like Sig's or Glock's? I'm confused by your reasoning.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

A letter from the chief will suffice.

How does a letter from the chief meet the Ch 140 Sec 131G requirement "...has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony..." ? Is there some law, case law or administrative precedent that established that a letter from the chief in a no-permit required state is the same as having a permit for the purposes of 140/131g?