This deer is top on the kill list for next year.

[Uzi2]

Good body but lousy antlers. I'll be looking for him next season.

 

[whacko]

View attachment 256120

Good body but lousy antlers. I'll be looking for him next season.

I have a different outlook. You can't eat the antlers. That's a shooter in my book.

Everyone hunts their own game.

 

[md2020]

Dogs love chew on antlers as well as mice & other rodents. Free calcium is a good thing IMHO.

Small does are the best eating! Unfortunately not for bragging rights, LOL.

 

[whacko]

Dogs love chew on antlers as well as mice & other rodents. Free calcium is a good thing IMHO.

Small does are the best eating! Unfortunately not for bragging rights, LOL.

I dont hunt for bragging rights. I hunt for the freezer. I agree......80 pound does are by far the best tasting meet in the freezer.

I hunt what the regs and tags allow.

This topic is why I dropped mass hunting group on FB. If you posted a pic of a nice doe or a 100 pound fork buck on that page during the season you'd have a dozen or so grouchy old f***ers within an hour telling you how terrible a hunter you are by shooting does and forks.

 

[md2020]

I totally agree Whacko. My last deer was a nice 11 pt (OLD about 135 lbs), but it was also the worse venison I had ever eaten. Heck, my dad even tried to make burger with it to no avail. I would have rather have chewed on my boot leather!! That thing was TOUGH.

 

[northny]

Yes that one would be a good cull. If it’s genetic you don’t want him breeding. Otherwise he won’t ever amount to trophy, so shoot and eat him

If you can’t take does (where I am you can’t) and you are trying to give smaller bucks time to grow there is a lot of discussion as to what bucks to take and or pass on.

We had one like this on camera pre season. Right side was impressive four point. Left side 2” spike. He was taken second day of early muzzle loading season.

 

[Uzi2]

I have a different outlook. You can't eat the antlers. That's a shooter in my book.

Everyone hunts their own game.

Oh I agree, can't eat the antlers and he's a shooter but I bagged my buck for this season. I'd just like to cull out some of the odd rack bucks if possible.
He gets another year.

 

[Uzi2]

I dont hunt for bragging rights. I hunt for the freezer. I agree......80 pound does are by far the best tasting meet in the freezer.

I hunt what the regs and tags allow.

This topic is why I dropped mass hunting group on FB. If you posted a pic of a nice doe or a 100 pound fork buck on that page during the season you'd have a dozen or so grouchy old f***ers within an hour telling you how terrible a hunter you are by shooting does and forks.

I don't shoot the does here and have no problems with hunters that harvest them elswhere. Although they are good eating, they also bear the fawns so its counter productive for me to shoot them.
Doubtful that I'll ever have real trophy bucks here and that is not my goal, just trying to cull out the real odd ones and keep the herd healthy and multiplying.

 

[Mark from MA]

View attachment 256120

Good body but lousy antlers. I'll be looking for him next season.

Thats a great buck to cull.

 

[Mark from MA]

I dont hunt for bragging rights. I hunt for the freezer. I agree......80 pound does are by far the best tasting meet in the freezer.

I hunt what the regs and tags allow.

This topic is why I dropped mass hunting group on FB. If you posted a pic of a nice doe or a 100 pound fork buck on that page during the season you'd have a dozen or so grouchy old f***ers within an hour telling you how terrible a hunter you are by shooting does and forks.

IMHO the regs and tags allow too many deer here......car insurance lobbies run the game laws. The western half of the state we do not see enough deer and there is not enough deer per square. Eastern MA in the little pockets, the game laws are probably OK. But if your not at least seeing deer every day in good spots, I would question it.

Also, I've noticed, a lot of people in MA goal is to shoot anything that moves and fill as many tags as possible.....I'm not sure why. Shoot one deer for meat, then look for quality. Instead, they fill their tags with dink bucks which are the easiest deer in the woods to shoot, and then go tag trading doe permits. I understand if the hunter is younger, but some hunters here just want to shoot stuff for the sake of shooting it.

Perfect example....Uzi from Kentucky, where there are a lot more deer, and see a lot more deer, only can shoot one buck per year. Why? They have a shxt ton of deer there? And has stated he doesn't shoot does because he cares about future herd.

I can attest to this because I bowhunted Kentucky and I saw multiple deer every sit. I passed a 120 inch 8pt that in MA would have been someone's dream buck. The farmer who's land I was hunting on was very much on the same page as Uzi is. Doesn't shoot does, takes only 8pt or better. Even though there are no laws stating this. This was real refreshing sentiment, from the brown its down MA hunters I hear from all the time.

I came back and bowhunted MA, and saw two deer total (passed one of them as it was small buck) in the same amount of sits as Kentucky, I hunted many more acres as well in MA, and sat different places. Kentucky, I had 100 acres to hunt and saw 20 times more deer.

Why are people in other deer rich states only allowed one buck? And why are they much more conservative in taking deer is my question? This is something I've noticed from hunting several deer rich states over the years. People have a different attitude for the most part, they could stack deer like cordwood, but they don't.

When I first started hunting, I used to be a typical MA hunter. But then I really started questioning myself, after I'd shoot the only deer I'd seen in a week of hunting. Whether that really was the right thing to do, even though the game laws say I can, ethically, seeing one deer in a week and shooting that one deer is really dumb. Id feel a lot better if I saw 20 deer and shot one of them and realized that the herd is in good shape.

That is the real reason I started hunting CT and other states. I hate seeing one or two deer in MA and then shooting one of them. Ethically, I know the herd is low, and I'm not doing it a favor.

 

[whacko]

IMHO the regs and tags allow too many deer here......car insurance lobbies run the game laws. The western half of the state we do not see enough deer and there is not enough deer per square. Eastern MA in the little pockets, the game laws are probably OK. But if your not at least seeing deer every day in good spots, I would question it.

Also, I've noticed, a lot of people in MA goal is to shoot anything that moves and fill as many tags as possible.....I'm not sure why. Shoot one deer for meat, then look for quality. Instead, they fill their tags with dink bucks which are the easiest deer in the woods to shoot, and then go tag trading doe permits. I understand if the hunter is younger, but some hunters here just want to shoot stuff for the sake of shooting it.

Perfect example....Uzi from Kentucky, where there are a lot more deer, and see a lot more deer, only can shoot one buck per year. Why? They have a shxt ton of deer there? And has stated he doesn't shoot does because he cares about future herd.

I can attest to this because I bowhunted Kentucky and I saw multiple deer every sit. I passed a 120 inch 8pt that in MA would have been someone's dream buck. The farmer who's land I was hunting on was very much on the same page as Uzi is. Doesn't shoot does, takes only 8pt or better. Even though there are no laws stating this. This was real refreshing sentiment, from the brown its down MA hunters I hear from all the time.

I came back and bowhunted MA, and saw two deer total (passed one of them as it was small buck) in the same amount of sits as Kentucky, I hunted many more acres as well in MA, and sat different places. Kentucky, I had 100 acres to hunt and saw 20 times more deer.

Why are people in other deer rich states only allowed one buck? And why are they much more conservative in taking deer is my question? This is something I've noticed from hunting several deer rich states over the years. People have a different attitude for the most part, they could stack deer like cordwood, but they don't.

When I first started hunting, I used to be a typical MA hunter. But then I really started questioning myself, after I'd shoot the only deer I'd seen in a week of hunting. Whether that really was the right thing to do, even though the game laws say I can, ethically, seeing one deer in a week and shooting that one deer is really dumb. Id feel a lot better if I saw 20 deer and shot one of them and realized that the herd is in good shape.

That is the real reason I started hunting CT and other states. I hate seeing one or two deer in MA and then shooting one of them. Ethically, I know the herd is low, and I'm not doing it a favor.

Mark
I hunt 9 and 10. When I'm out I always see multiple deer in a day. By multiple....I mean large herds. Last season we bumped a herd of 20 or more......they were between us and a couple of houses so no shots. Other herds were always 5-10 deer. We bump deer on almost every drive. Yes I hunt for the freezer.....and in the zones I hunt I don't feel a bit bad about taking does and forks. The overall management plan is set to reduce not maintain or grow the population.

But to your point.....if I were hunting Western zones......I can say I'd be a bit more selective.

 

[Mark from MA]

Mark
I hunt 9 and 10. When I'm out I always see multiple deer in a day. By multiple....I mean large herds. Last season we bumped a herd of 20 or more......they were between us and a couple of houses so no shots. Other herds were always 5-10 deer. We bump deer on almost every drive. Yes I hunt for the freezer.....and in the zones I hunt I don't feel a bit bad about taking does and forks. The overall management plan is set to reduce not maintain or grow the population.

But to your point.....if I were hunting Western zones......I can say I'd be a bit more selective.

Just for the record......I do the same thing in southern CT with the bow. I generally will take 2 does for the year for meat. Technically, there is nothing wrong with that where there is an overabundance.

I think they attempt to manage MA, and it works where deer have sanctuary in the eastern zones. In the western areas, the 2 deer buck limit is too liberal IMHO, and the herd gets a lot of winter/coyote kill that MA doesn't account for.

Please remember, back when I started hunting in the 80's, it was nearly impossible to draw a doe permit, and there was a one buck limit. Archery season started Nov 1, Shotgun season was one week, and Muzzleloader was 3 days. The state has kept adding and adding, which is the Eastern zones was OK, but I don't think the Western zones can keep up with the added pressure.

 

[whacko]

Just for the record......I do the same thing in southern CT with the bow. I generally will take 2 does for the year for meat. Technically, there is nothing wrong with that where there is an overabundance.

I think they attempt to manage MA, and it works where deer have sanctuary in the eastern zones. In the western areas, the 2 deer buck limit is too liberal IMHO, and the herd gets a lot of winter/coyote kill that MA doesn't account for.

Please remember, back when I started hunting in the 80's, it was nearly impossible to draw a doe permit, and there was a one buck limit. Archery season started Nov 1, Shotgun season was one week, and Muzzleloader was 3 days. The state has kept adding and adding, which is the Eastern zones was OK, but I don't think the Western zones can keep up with the added pressure.

Makes sense.

To add to the pot stirring.......you and I both know what would happen if mass limits zones1-8 to one buck!

Thats right.....A shit ton of bucks are going to magically get shot in zone 9 by guys that live in zones 1-8!

 

[Mark from MA]

Makes sense.

To add to the pot stirring.......you and I both know what would happen if mass limits zones1-8 to one buck!

Thats right.....A shit ton of bucks are going to magically get shot in zone 9 by guys that live in zones 1-8!

I know. Lol.

Id rather one buck Statewide. Imho people might pass smaller bucks and hold out for a bigger one.

Or in eastern zones put in Antler restrictions. Or earn a buck

 

[whacko]

I know. Lol.

Id rather one buck Statewide. Imho people might pass smaller bucks and hold out for a bigger one.

Or in eastern zones put in Antler restrictions. Or earn a buck

Ah you mean restrictions like VT? I believe in VT the buck has to have one antler has to have 2 points.....no shooting spikes.

 

[Bt74]

I dont hunt for bragging rights. I hunt for the freezer. I agree......80 pound does are by far the best tasting meet in the freezer.

I hunt what the regs and tags allow.

This topic is why I dropped mass hunting group on FB. If you posted a pic of a nice doe or a 100 pound fork buck on that page during the season you'd have a dozen or so grouchy old f***ers within an hour telling you how terrible a hunter you are by shooting does and forks.

I got booted from the NH Deer Hunters group on FB....for making fun of some ahole that was really proud of his gutshot spotted fawn. Seriously, clowns posting pictures of spotted fawns? What, cook them in the turkey fryer?

 

[Uzi2]

Picked up two 50lb bags of trace mineral and salt mix ( the stuff fed to cattle) to enhance the mineral availability to the deer herd.
Maybe it will help begin to correct some of the antler issues I've seen in a few bucks.......and all the wildlife needs minerals.
Need to find a cheap calcium suppliment to add to the mix.

 

[tuna]

Minor trollling ahead, just warning you.

I thought one of our arguments was that if we don’t keep the herd in check we are going to have problems like collisions and starvation? So doesn’t it make sense to take out the does and fawns? Not that our hunting success really makes a difference compared to natural predators and cars.

I’m not a fan of deer to begin with, so I’m a brown is down kinda guy, but I don’t see anything, so it shouldn’t be an issue for you guys.

I’m wondering where this live of deer comes from. People have no issue killing coyote or squirrel for fun, I mean vermin control, so why can’t we add deer to the vermin matrix if we want? I used to do depredation on an airport, and would almost get in fistfights with people who found out I shot deer and buried the carcass. (It was July, and the permit stated the animal be destroyed, I’m not risking it to take a deer home, especially when I don’t really want the meat anyway - I also don’t count this as hunting)

It’s almost like deer passed the cuteness test and everyone has to love them. I personally think coyotes are much cooler.

 

[whacko]

Minor trollling ahead, just warning you.

I thought one of our arguments was that if we don’t keep the herd in check we are going to have problems like collisions and starvation? So doesn’t it make sense to take out the does and fawns? Not that our hunting success really makes a difference compared to natural predators and cars.

I’m not a fan of deer to begin with, so I’m a brown is down kinda guy, but I don’t see anything, so it shouldn’t be an issue for you guys.

I’m wondering where this live of deer comes from. People have no issue killing coyote or squirrel for fun, I mean vermin control, so why can’t we add deer to the vermin matrix if we want? I used to do depredation on an airport, and would almost get in fistfights with people who found out I shot deer and buried the carcass. (It was July, and the permit stated the animal be destroyed, I’m not risking it to take a deer home, especially when I don’t really want the meat anyway - I also don’t count this as hunting)

It’s almost like deer passed the cuteness test and everyone has to love them. I personally think coyotes are much cooler.

Yeah trolling it is

Your generalizing a bit.

I don't shoot anything I don't plan to consume. Hunting is not necessarily "fun" for me......it's more of a pride in my ability to harvest a meal.....or in the case of deer.....multiple meals.....from the woods.

As far as deer being considered vermin.......I suppose you could make that arguememt if they are overpopulated. But I'm my estimation to be considered vermin.......the animal should probably not taste good lol

 

[Uzi2]

Minor trollling ahead, just warning you.

I thought one of our arguments was that if we don’t keep the herd in check we are going to have problems like collisions and starvation? So doesn’t it make sense to take out the does and fawns? Not that our hunting success really makes a difference compared to natural predators and cars.

I’m not a fan of deer to begin with, so I’m a brown is down kinda guy, but I don’t see anything, so it shouldn’t be an issue for you guys.

I’m wondering where this live of deer comes from. People have no issue killing coyote or squirrel for fun, I mean vermin control, so why can’t we add deer to the vermin matrix if we want? I used to do depredation on an airport, and would almost get in fistfights with people who found out I shot deer and buried the carcass. (It was July, and the permit stated the animal be destroyed, I’m not risking it to take a deer home, especially when I don’t really want the meat anyway - I also don’t count this as hunting)

It’s almost like deer passed the cuteness test and everyone has to love them. I personally think coyotes are much cooler.

WARNING: Math involved........

Deer are food on the hoof.

I don't shoot anything that I don't eat unless it is a problem animal.....and around here, coyotes are a problem animal.

This is cattle country and farm country around me, where there are fields of sometimes hundreds of head of cattle, dropping calves regularly. Everytime a coyote kills a newborn calf, thats about $1200+ dollars out of the pocket of the farmer. Do the math.

A coyote is a wild canine, pack animal, that in numbers will kill you, your pets, your livestock, and other game animals. They repopulate like mice. Their numbers grow exponentially every year if not kept in check. Do the math.

Their pelt(to the vast majority of people) isn't worth the effort involved in processing them. More math.

Their numbers are increasing so much so that they are open season ALL YEAR.....NIGHT OR DAY, with one restrictions being that shotgun must be used at night, shot only no slugs and you can't have a light connected to a vehicle it must be hand held and there are location restrictions in certain zones. More math.

 

[whacko]

WARNING: Math involved........

Deer are food on the hoof.

I don't shoot anything that I don't eat unless it is a problem animal.....and around here, coyotes are a problem animal.

This is cattle country and farm country around me, where there are fields of sometimes hundreds of head of cattle, dropping calves regularly. Everytime a coyote kills a newborn calf, thats about $1200+ dollars out of the pocket of the farmer. Do the math.

A coyote is a wild canine, pack animal, that in numbers will kill you, your pets, your livestock, and other game animals. They repopulate like mice. Their numbers grow exponentially every year if not kept in check. Do the math.

Their pelt(to the vast majority of people) isn't worth the effort involved in processing them. More math.

Their numbers are increasing so much so that they are open season ALL YEAR.....NIGHT OR DAY, with the only restriction being that shotgun must be used at night. More math.

What state are you from? Mass has a closed season on yotes. Open season is Oct to march and hours are half before sunrise to midnight.

 

[Uzi2]

What state are you from? Mass has a closed season on yotes. Open season is Oct to march and hours are half before sunrise to midnight.

Kentucky

 

[whacko]

Kentucky

Not all new New England states have closed season on coyote. If I'm right NH is year round. Mass considers coyote a fur bearer and does have a few restrictions on hours and impliments. But during open season there is no bag limit.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I hunt for bone. I would pass on that guy. I've passed on better this year in fact... The freezer is empty though so there's that. But venison isn't my fav to begin with so I ain't mad about it. I just enjoy the chase. But I do consume anything I harvest when able. It's how you gain the animal's powers. That said I ain't eating no coyote.

He may actually have a better rack next year though. It's possible he could have sustain injury this year that caused stunted growth on the single point side. Although it doesn't look like it from the pic... Just bad genetics and nutrient deficiencies.

IF the state's wildlife biologists are to be believed, the deer are overpopulated though. Hell - that could very well be why he is stunted. Overpopulation leads to nutrient deficiencies by way of starvation or lack of certain food sources.

 

[Uzi2]

I hunt for bone. I would pass on that guy. I've passed on better this year in fact... The freezer is empty though so there's that. But venison isn't my fav to begin with so I ain't mad about it. I just enjoy the chase. But I do consume anything I harvest when able. It's how you gain the animal's powers. That said I ain't eating no coyote.

He may actually have a better rack next year though. It's possible he could have sustain injury this year that caused stunted growth on the single point side. Although it doesn't look like it from the pic... Just bad genetics and nutrient deficiencies.

IF the state's wildlife biologists are to be believed, the deer are overpopulated though. Hell - that could very well be why he is stunted. Overpopulation leads to nutrient deficiencies by way of starvation or lack of certain food sources.

I doubt there is any starvation around here, winters are mild, food is abundant with all the farms and other vegetation.
Lots of people feed them too and minerals are sold everywhere...and usually sell out so theres lots out there.

Don't know about him....I'm thinking bad genetics.

 

[Mark from MA]

Ah you mean restrictions like VT? I believe in VT the buck has to have one antler has to have 2 points.....no shooting spikes.

I hunt VT occasionally and we are seeing bigger bucks now than we did before. We only shoot 8 or better anyway where we are. I didnt hunt this year but my buddy saw some good deer.

But Yes. More like PA. Where they have to have 3 or 4 points a side. PA is getting some real nice racks now after doing this for 6-7 years. My buddy just got back. Can only kill one buck...must be 4 points a side. He said he averages seeing 20 deer a day and though most of the rackers are on camera at night, the restrictions are working for both amount of deer and antler size.

 

[Mark from MA]

I doubt there is any starvation around here, winters are mild, food is abundant with all the farms and other vegetation.
Lots of people feed them too and minerals are sold everywhere...and usually sell out so theres lots out there.

Don't know about him....I'm thinking bad genetics.

Id go with poor genetics. I hunt areas in CT where ive litterally passed up a 180-200 pound 3-7 year old spike horn or fork horn or stupidly racked deer. Yet at the same spot shot a good racker over 200 pounds that is 3.5 years old. This is in spots where there are "supposedly" 60 deer per square mile. There are still some nice bucks around. Are they easy to get, no...they walk at night like most big bucks do. I see them on the camera though. My last deer was 220 dressed pounds....with a decent 9 pt rack. So I don't really take much faith into overpopulated areas not producing nice bucks. And I say nice bucks meaning Northeast, not Midwest.

It has a lot to do with feed and genetics. Think the midwest, tons of corn, great genetics, great deer. Northeast and Southeast areas are genetically limited, and won't ever produce as many Boone and Crocketts as the Midwest or Canada/Saskatewan. Ever. Also, Northern deer are bigger, stronger and have better antler development.

Severe overcrowding might lead to bad racks in certain areas but I believe that genetics has far more to do with it.

Just as an over abundance of food and minerals wont make a genetically inferior buck great either.

Heres a couple of the CT deer in overpopulated areas ive taken. Both over 200 pounds